An Idea To Improve The National; An Open Letter To The Board

[Exhibitman]

One of the continual complaints about the show is that it is tremendously fatiguing for collectors, especially older ones, to cover an aircraft hangar-sized facility. I am 50 now and definitely not feeling as good about the show as I was when I was in my 30s. Plus, given what I collect, there are always many tables of 'shiny crap' and manufactured memorabilia that I bypass. Logging the miles between vintage outposts is simply getting old. Not to mention the corporate booths in the middle of the floor that have zero attraction for me and that now seem to host ever noisier events that make dealing with customers next to them very unpleasant. The Topps booth was especially obnoxious this year. So, with that in mind, I have a modest proposal for the show's organizers:

1. Relocate the corporate booths to a corner of the room rather than the middle: It would make a tremendous difference to attendees to have this sort of stuff off to the side. People who want to access the corporate offerings could do so but those of us with no interest in it could avoid having to cut across a football field of junk, or trying to hear a seller or customer over the shouts of the pack breakers.

2. Place dealers by specialties: Many trade shows with disparate subject matter group their vendors. It would be very helpful to attendees to have dealers who specialize in modern at one end of the room, and dealers who specialize in vintage at the other.

3. Place the manufactured memorabilia, framing, holders, etc., dealers over by the autograph area: These are the sorts of things people buy when they are getting stuff signed. How about putting the vendors for these items near the people who need them?

4. Put the Third Party Graders in one place. It was a real PITA having SGC, BVG, JSA and PSA spread all over the place with no rhyme or reason to it. I didn't even know that PSA was at the far end of the pack break pavilion until Thursday. It's not like they really compete with one another; each has its own niches and devotees.

[mrvster]

I have never been to a national, yet, but great ideas! the card shows I have been to I feel the same way......vintage one area......autos the next....ect.......

really great idea! I would love the idea of just walking over to the "vintage area"

[Cozumeleno]

I've never been to a National so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. But as someone who has managed attending corporate trade shows for a living before, the prime space is almost always right up front or in the middle. My guess is that those corporate guys are spending big money to be in that space and would balk at paying the same price to be sent to the outer edge. So it becomes a matter of finding other dealers to pay that much to be in that spot.

Again, no idea how it works at the National, but that's the way it is at other types of trade shows.

I think the idea of grouping dealers by vintage/modern is a great idea, BTW. Not sure what you do with the folks that do both, but maybe that'd be a separate area.

[bravesfan22]

I'm 26 and in fairly good health and feel the same way you do haha. I wouldn't have logged nearly as many miles on the shoe soles if stuff was divided up into said categories. I know many dealers carry both modern and vintage or carry both cards and memorbilia but I'm sure there's a creative way to fit them in a category as well. At minimum I'd like to see the floor divided up into 3 basic categories of : 1. Dealers 2. Auction companies 3. Card manufactured and their dealers (topps, panini, Blowout cards, da card world etc.) and then maybe a 4th category of miscellaneous like the jerseys and poster guys and what not. But even just the 3 categories split up into sections would save a lot of time and walking.

[glchen]

Right, I think the big corporate guys pay more money to be at those locations because there would likely be more traffic there, so they wouldn't want to be moved to an edge.

Another idea to perhaps persuade dealers to voluntarily move would be to designate certain areas as prewar, vintage, nonsports, etc, and then see if dealers would want to move to that area. Then collectors who are interested in those things could go to that location first. Not sure how it would work because some dealers would have all eras so may not want to be pigeonholed in certain locations.

[ullmandds]

excellent idea to group dealers by subject matter imo. I'd love to see that...that way I could skip all the shiny crap I have no interest in seeing.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Have the booth numbers displayed would be nice..but I think paying for where your table is will take precedent that giving random spaces based on the subject matter of the sales..

there were 4 days to look around so you can scout the area and figure where you want to go first and do 1/4 each day ...

[4815162342]

Great suggestions, Adam. You've said what we've all been thinking.

[the-illini]

If none of that is doable, would it be so hard to put some empty tables and chairs throughout the convention center so you could sit down?

I know a lot of people didn't like the Cleveland facility, but I loved that I could walk down any aisle and when I got to the end there was a huge group of tables and chairs (and beer vendors) nearby.

[Exhibitman]

I'm not sure the logic of having corporate booths in the center really holds for this sort of show. People who want new cards and boxes to break will seek them out. Same with people looking for the graders. Most collectors I know just consider the center of the show to be an area to avoid.

The more serious concern is the noise that booths like the Topps booth are generating. If redemption contests and pack wars are to be part of the landscape then something has to be done to deal with the noise. I was sitting at tables near the Topps pavilion and it got so loud during those events that it was impossible to talk over it. If that is going to be part of the show then those booths have to move to a separate area. It is not fair to the surrounding dealers.

[slidekellyslide]

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[edhans]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One of the continual complaints about the show is that it is tremendously fatiguing for collectors, especially older ones, to cover an aircraft hangar-sized facility. I am 50 now and definitely not feeling as good about the show as I was when I was in my 30s. Plus, given what I collect, there are always many tables of 'shiny crap' and manufactured memorabilia that I bypass. Logging the miles between vintage outposts is simply getting old. Not to mention the corporate booths in the middle of the floor that have zero attraction for me and that now seem to host ever noisier events that make dealing with customers next to them very unpleasant. The Topps booth was especially obnoxious this year. So, with that in mind, I have a modest proposal for the show's organizers:

1. Relocate the corporate booths to a corner of the room rather than the middle: It would make a tremendous difference to attendees to have this sort of stuff off to the side. People who want to access the corporate offerings could do so but those of us with no interest in it could avoid having to cut across a football field of junk, or trying to hear a seller or customer over the shouts of the pack breakers.

An emphatic +1. We were further away then you, but the noise was still really annoying. Give them a separate section of the hall and erect noise baffles. Better yet, put them in another building entirely

2. Place dealers by specialties: Many trade shows with disparate subject matter group their vendors. It would be very helpful to attendees to have dealers who specialize in modern at one end of the room, and dealers who specialize in vintage at the other.

+1 also. Would save an enormous amount of walking for everyone.

3. Place the manufactured memorabilia, framing, holders, etc., dealers over by the autograph area: These are the sorts of things people buy when they are getting stuff signed. How about putting the vendors for these items near the people who need them?

Spot on again.

4. Put the Third Party Graders in one place. It was a real PITA having SGC, BVG, JSA and PSA spread all over the place with no rhyme or reason to it. I didn't even know that PSA was at the far end of the pack break pavilion until Thursday. It's not like they really compete with one another; each has its own niches and devotees.

I didn't find PSA until Sunday.

Your suggestions make too much sense to ever be enacted.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Adam, I couldn't agree more. This was my first National, but even I noticed the Topps folks and believed it to be way over the top. Also, Heritage and the like being plopped right in the middle disrupted the flow for me. I was cruising up and down the aisles trying to map things out and then BAM! there are these giant corporate museums with price tags and security guards right in the middle. It just didn't flow and was intrusive. As someone else pointed out, I am sure they get the middle for bankrolling the operation. On the whole, I appreciate your ideas for carving up and organizing. It could also be organized by sport, prewar, postwar, etc. There would be some overlap anyway you slice it, but just about any attempt would be welcomed. Maybe Heritage, Topps, SGC, PSA, etc. could have a "corporate sponsor space" of their own or something.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

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I think I saw her there on Saturday.

[buymycards]

Hi Chris, I agree completely. How about a few freaking chairs so we can rest awhile?

Rick

[icollectDCsports]

Perhaps the best way to peruse the show floor is via drone.

[keithsky]

I don't think the people that run the national really care what collectors think. Like all the corporate crap taking up half the building with the loud noises. Even all the auction companies put them in a certain area not everybody wants to be involved in an auction and with them bringing all their stuff that you can't even buy people just bypass their table anyway so let them have their own area. I agree tables and chairs randomly put out so people could sit down would be nice. Those worthless bags they give out when you walk in instead of a Heritage catalog promoting themselves they could throw in a survey that people could fill out on what they like and dislike at the National and mail it to the National people at least that way for future nationals they could make changes based on what collectors feel is good for the hobby not just a few people sitting around deciding for the whole collecting world what's good for a national. Get the people and collectors involved with their ideas as a few folks that have posted on this post have come up with already and some good ideas that they probably won't implement or even consider. Years ago those bags they gave out used to be fun to get standing in line with cards to open and little odds and ends stuff companies would put in there nothing spectacular or worth keeping but still something to do while you were standing in line this year the only thing in the bag was a heritage catalogue. Whoopi

[Donscards]

Great Ideas guys, but it will not work---the selection of booths go by a seniority rating---the more nationals u have done, the better selection of a booth u get---so the guys that have done Nationals from the beginning get the best booth location, meaning up front where u enter the show.---The Corporate people pay big money for their sites, so they will get the middle of the floor-----I wish they would combine booths (vintage, new cards, memorabilia, etc.) also better numbering of the booths would work---and like I stated before, the Topps booth was the worst ever for loud noise with their loud speaker auctions and promoting their cards.---It drove me crazy---but what can I do--just shake my head and try to talk to a customer---my voice took 2 days to come back to normal. But again, the booths go by seniority and they work their way down from front to back.

[buymycards]

I always go straight to the back and start with the small guys. Usually better deals and not as crowded.

[Runscott]

Adam - great ideas. As Don says, the fight over prime spots nixes some of that, and the fact that money trumps all will keep the big guys wherever they desire to be.

One good thing about Cleveland - I didn't wear myself out checking out all the other booths. Chicago drained me both times I was there, and I was a collector so I had plenty of time to wander around. It was just too much to mentally process, and as much as I should have been making sure I left no stone unturned, I missed a lot of booths.

Maybe I will go to Atlantic City - it's only 3.5 hours from where my kids live, so they could see me being stupid at work.

[Jewish-collector]

I had suggested Adam's idea a few years ago, but Don explained why it would never work. The Chicago National is the only facility where the corporate booths are in the middle of the show. In Cleveland and Baltimore, the corporate stuff was in one corner or one side of the room.

[midmo]

Great suggestions, 100% agree. I was trying to talk to a dealer near the Topps guys and we had to stop several times because we couldn't even hear each other. Ridiculous. They need to turn that bullhorn down a notch. And could it hurt to put out a few chairs near the food at least? After walking around for several hours I needed a food break and there wasn't a place to sit down. Other than that, I had a great time.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by keithsky

I don't think the people that run the national really care what collectors think.

This is the only conclusion that anyone can come to. I've been to 12 Nationals and they are in a steep decline in quality. It's practically all Tristar (autographs) and 'corporate' booths now along with $25 admission fees, which is just obscene.

Mike Berkus & Co. brought this show to life and now they are causing it to die. I've been saying this to anyone who will listen - this hobby is imploding.

Bill

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by midmo

Great suggestions, 100% agree. I was trying to talk to a dealer near the Topps guys and we had to stop several times because we couldn't even hear each other. Ridiculous. They need to turn that bullhorn down a notch. And could it hurt to put out a few chairs near the food at least? After walking around for several hours I needed a food break and there wasn't a place to sit down. Other than that, I had a great time.

Come on Justin, you could have sat at my table as long as you wanted!

I was far enough away from the bullhorn that I wasn't bothered by it, but I remember last year in Cleveland it was maddening.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by the-illini

If none of that is doable, would it be so hard to put some empty tables and chairs throughout the convention center so you could sit down?

I know a lot of people didn't like the Cleveland facility, but I loved that I could walk down any aisle and when I got to the end there was a huge group of tables and chairs (and beer vendors) nearby.

I believe a few Nationals ago in Chicago they did have various "rest areas" throughout the floor where those who got tired of walking could sit and relax before moving on. Sure, it takes up valuable floor space but I can tell you if I had a place to sit and relax and wipe the sweat off of my brow I surely would have stuck around longer and spent some more money. As it was I was tired, hot and hungry (and was not paying those crazy prices for food) and just wanted to get out of there.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bcornell

I've been to 12 Nationals and they are in a steep decline in quality. It's practically all Tristar (autographs) and 'corporate' booths now along with $25 admission fees, which is just obscene.

I would agree that the quality of the material from National to National is in pretty steep decline -- but isn't that the dealers' faults as well? As for walking a lot, well, a) this is the nature of the beast considering the size of the floor and the number of booths in existence; and b) having taken a look at the size of most of the hobbyists it might not be the worst thing in the world to get these people moving to some place other than a feed bag.

[wonkaticket]

I would add in the little train from the show Silver Spoons.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

Come on Justin, you could have sat at my table as long as you wanted!

Bob, next time I might just take you up on that.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I would add in the little train from the show Silver Spoons.

HA! And Dexter Stuffins!

[slidekellyslide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzDaNEJudAs

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I would agree that the quality of the material from National to National is in pretty steep decline -- but isn't that the dealers' faults as well? As for walking a lot, well, a) this is the nature of the beast considering the size of the floor and the number of booths in existence; and b) having taken a look at the size of most of the hobbyists it might not be the worst thing in the world to get these people moving to some place other than a feed bag.

Hey! I resemble that remark😎

[Exhibitman]

Oh, I agree we are a bunch of lardasses (mostly) who benefit from walking and I'm not complaining about having to cover the mileage per se. It just frustrates me to have to cut around the corporate crap. Here's another idea: aisles between the corporate displays. There were some parts of the floor where they had multiple booths with no passage between them.

[ullmandds]

being young(46) and relatively fit...I do not mind the walking...what I didn't love is the difficulty in figuring out booth #'s...and I would prefer similar material grouped together.

But...part of these complaints are what make the national what it is. You have to hunt for things...if everything were organized there would be no hunting. There would also be issues with dealers providing customer attention...whereas with us having to walk...and "find" certain dealers...this creates more even time for them to help customers.

Additionally if all material were grouped together...a lot of people would come and go quickly figuring they have seen all they came to see.

So I don't think like material will ever be grouped together...it really doesn't make sense.

For those who want material grouped together...there's...oops...there used to be ebay!

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One of the continual complaints about the show is that it is tremendously fatiguing for collectors, especially older ones, to cover an aircraft hangar-sized facility. I am 50 now and definitely not feeling as good about the show as I was when I was in my 30s. Plus, given what I collect, there are always many tables of 'shiny crap' and manufactured memorabilia that I bypass. Logging the miles between vintage outposts is simply getting old. Not to mention the corporate booths in the middle of the floor that have zero attraction for me and that now seem to host ever noisier events that make dealing with customers next to them very unpleasant. The Topps booth was especially obnoxious this year. So, with that in mind, I have a modest proposal for the show's organizers:

1. Relocate the corporate booths to a corner of the room rather than the middle: It would make a tremendous difference to attendees to have this sort of stuff off to the side. People who want to access the corporate offerings could do so but those of us with no interest in it could avoid having to cut across a football field of junk, or trying to hear a seller or customer over the shouts of the pack breakers.

2. Place dealers by specialties: Many trade shows with disparate subject matter group their vendors. It would be very helpful to attendees to have dealers who specialize in modern at one end of the room, and dealers who specialize in vintage at the other.

3. Place the manufactured memorabilia, framing, holders, etc., dealers over by the autograph area: These are the sorts of things people buy when they are getting stuff signed. How about putting the vendors for these items near the people who need them?

4. Put the Third Party Graders in one place. It was a real PITA having SGC, BVG, JSA and PSA spread all over the place with no rhyme or reason to it. I didn't even know that PSA was at the far end of the pack break pavilion until Thursday. It's not like they really compete with one another; each has its own niches and devotees.

+1. Amen, Adam. I wish they would try this for Atlantic City.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Oh, I agree we are a bunch of lardasses (mostly) who benefit from walking and I'm not complaining about having to cover the mileage per se. It just frustrates me to have to cut around the corporate crap. Here's another idea: aisles between the corporate displays. There were some parts of the floor where they had multiple booths with no passage between them.

LOLOL they WANT you to have to run into the corporate sponsors, etc. at every turn. That's the point! And yeah it was kind of Twiilight Zonish after a while. Wherever you turned or whichever path you took you ended up back in front of one of those massive corporate signs and areas.

[Rickyy]

I haven't been to a National or a large show in years....but it still sounds the same in terms of not being customer friendly. I can understand the logic of wanting the attendees to comb and look over every dealer, but a specific print out listing of dealers and their specialties would be helpful. I went to a antique show many years ago where they had a booth that you can stop at and they could print you out a list of dealers based on what you were looking for... (ex: post cards) and they would sort and print out the location map of all post card dealers in the bourse.

Ricky Y

[BeanTown]

Onething I would say is never select a city which requires union labor to help dealers move in and move out. It doubles their cost which gets passed down to customers I imagine. Las Vegas does this for The SEMA convention and its a joke how much the bill is afterwards.

[rdwyer]

How about coming back to Southern California?

[BlueSky]

Booth Babes

[bostonmarathonman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

b) having taken a look at the size of most of the hobbyists it might not be the worst thing in the world to get these people moving to some place other than a feed bag.

:d :d :d

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

LOLOL they WANT you to have to run into the corporate sponsors, etc. at every turn. That's the point! And yeah it was kind of Twiilight Zonish after a while. Wherever you turned or whichever path you took you ended up back in front of one of those massive corporate signs and areas.

What was weird about the set-up from that perspective was that quite a few of the corporate booths had sides that were enclosed so you literally would dead end into the back of a booth panel. Big waste of potential visibility That was mostly the graders, but there were also significant dead ends at the unopened card seller booths and one of the card mfgs had a set-up that was closed off on at least one of the sides.

To echo others, displaying booth #s should be mandatory, like addresses on curbs.