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  #1  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:00 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Default 51 Bowman Mantle Crossover or Bump Help

Looking for some thoughts on this particular card and it’s chances for a cross over to PSA or bump at SGC. Originally I was just going to have it reholdered at SGC upon purchasing the card. Once I received the card it appears much nicer and worthy of a bump or crossover so now reconsidering what may be the best option. Do I stand a chance with either or is it just a waste of money with a card of this caliber? The corners and edges are what really stands out to me for being better than the grade with 3 out of 4 being very good.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.







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Last edited by investinrookies; 08-22-2019 at 09:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:06 PM
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Don't have a true opinion on crossing it over, but you'd have to research PSA's view on how much 'out-of-registration' (magenta plate?) would affect the grading of this Mantle. But, man, that's a sweet card!!
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:23 PM
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Reholder with SGC then send to PSA to cross. Bingo

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  #4  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:35 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
Reholder with SGC then send to PSA to cross. Bingo

!
Very intriguing thought, that does seem like a good option. Assuming you have had some luck doing it that way? Worst case scenario I get the new SGC holder which is a vast improvement over the current holder.

Last edited by investinrookies; 08-22-2019 at 07:40 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:33 PM
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Thatís a sweet card, congrats.
Would the purpose of the crossover be for registry, value increase, slab preference or other?


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  #6  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:46 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Originally Posted by AGuinness View Post
That’s a sweet card, congrats.
Would the purpose of the crossover be for registry, value increase, slab preference or other?


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Thanks, I’m really happy with the card. I like the look of the new SGC holders and this card would look sweet in the new case with the black flip. That being said, Ive been second guessing myself not attempting to cross it over to PSA for a value increase especially if it went over to a 6, but not sure thats possible without cracking out.

Last edited by investinrookies; 08-22-2019 at 09:48 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2019, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
Thanks, Iím really happy with the card. I like the look of the new SGC holders and this card would look sweet in the new case with the black flip. That being said, Ive been second guessing myself not attempting to cross it over to PSA for a value increase especially if it went over to a 6, but not sure thats possible without cracking out.


If you are inclined to sell it sometime, I think crossing to PSA could make sense (assuming the TPG hierarchy remains the same), although Iím not up to speed on the fees for a card like this. If you will keep it in your PC and wonít plan on selling it, I think the new SGC flip is the way to go. Reholdering is pretty inexpensive, at least.


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  #8  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:33 AM
AustinMike AustinMike is offline
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If you really want "bump help", send it to PWCC. With Moser's help they can probably "conserve" it to an 8 or 9.
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:58 AM
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SGC is by far my TPG of choice, so if I were keeping it in my collection I would just re-holder. If you are looking to flip it and maximize profit, then unfortunately I would have to concur that PSA is still the best choice. As shady and underhanded as I believe them to be, their bubble has not burst yet.

Gorgeous card, good luck either way. As mentioned earlier - I can see where it has the slightest of registration problems, but it is very minor and does not affect eye appeal much. You see that so bad on some cards where the player has two sets of eyes, lol.
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2019, 10:29 AM
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If you are keeping the card for your PC, why even mess with sending the card in the mail and having someone else crack the card for you just to get a shining new holder?

Things can get lost or damaged in the mail, cards can get dinged during the reholder process and all of us can go on about bad things that can happen to a card out of our possession.

It's not my very expensive card, but I would leave it alone and just enjoy it.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2019, 12:03 PM
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Things can get lost or damaged in the mail, cards can get dinged during the reholder process and all of us can go on about bad things that can happen to a card out of our possession.
I can understand the desire to get a card like that in the newest version of the slab. If it's worth it to him to properly insure, there should be no problems. I absolutely hate sending cards that I'm keeping for my PC off to be graded, though. Always feels like a family member is missing while they're gone...
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2019, 12:24 PM
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Nice card!

IIRC, the new SGC owners are Re-Grading everything sent for reholder (due to new ownership)

If you are trying to crossover, may want to just send directly to PSA instead of going through twice...
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2019, 01:19 PM
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What a beautiful card.

Have you ever seen the ones with very white borders? Yikes! A lot of them have been given chemical baths and yours is not one of them. Yours has off-white borders and this is the way it should be. It also doesn't suffer from print lines or bleeding. I do see a very faint wax stain on the reverse, but it's not as bad as the others I've seen. And finally, the centering looks great as well.

Just one question: do you have other cards from this set? Have you tried measuring this Mantle with one eye closed? Is it the correct size? Did you compare it to the others?

I wouldn't mail it out, but if you are ever in California, then why don't you just take it to the PSA building? I have a friend who does that with his expensive cards.

Last edited by samosa4u; 08-23-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2019, 04:57 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
What a beautiful card.

Have you ever seen the ones with very white borders? Yikes! A lot of them have been given chemical baths and yours is not one of them. Yours has off-white borders and this is the way it should be. It also doesn't suffer from print lines or bleeding. I do see a very faint wax stain on the reverse, but it's not as bad as the others I've seen. And finally, the centering looks great as well.

Just one question: do you have other cards from this set? Have you tried measuring this Mantle with one eye closed? Is it the correct size? Did you compare it to the others?

I wouldn't mail it out, but if you are ever in California, then why don't you just take it to the PSA building? I have a friend who does that with his expensive cards.
You listed several reasons why I bought the card, it has a natural look to it, appears full size and the centering isn’t bad for the issue. I noticed the little bit of the registration being slightly off but 90% of them are and it doesn’t hurt the eye appeal much. I think the best bet is just to reholder it with SGC and enjoy it!

Last edited by investinrookies; 08-23-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2019, 04:59 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Keep SGC just reholder.

Beautiful Card Bud
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2019, 02:27 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Mailed the card off to SGC for reholdering without review. Just having this card in the new holder will present much better. I dont plan on flipping the card so likely will just leave it in the new SGC 6 case. Will post an updated pic once it returns from SGC. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Last edited by investinrookies; 08-25-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:50 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
Mailed the card off to SGC for reholdering without review. Just having this card in the new holder will present much better. I dont plan on flipping the card so likely will just leave it in the new SGC 6 case. Will post an updated pic once it returns from SGC. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
That’s exactly what I would do. Good Job :-) enjoy your beautiful Card.

Last edited by Johnny630; 09-17-2019 at 10:36 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2019, 08:36 AM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Default 51 Bowman Mantle Crossover or Bump Help

Fresh back from SGC, looks very nice in the new holder. That being said it still appears very worthy of a bump with the corners being so nice.




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Last edited by investinrookies; 09-14-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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Thatís a gorgeous card and itís looks great in the new holder. Congrats and enjoy!


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  #20  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:10 PM
ALBB ALBB is offline
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Default 51 mantle

I think that little bump when you crossed over..really did you right...
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:25 PM
investinrookies investinrookies is offline
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Quote:
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I think that little bump when you crossed over..really did you right...
Was a SGC 6 already just Reholdered it?
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:33 AM
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Default 51 Bowman Mantle Crossover or Bump Help

A 6 for a 68 year old card is what my mother would describe as a "mighty fine" grade. Let alone on a card bearing the significance of that one. Leave it alone and enjoy the heck out of it...
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Last edited by jchcollins; 09-23-2019 at 02:40 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:35 PM
murphy8276 murphy8276 is offline
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Originally Posted by Smanzari View Post
Nice card!

IIRC, the new SGC owners are Re-Grading everything sent for reholder (due to new ownership)

If you are trying to crossover, may want to just send directly to PSA instead of going through twice...
Wow, what a sad rule by SGC.

I bet they haven't been contacting people that their card bumped higher for free during re-holder... So you have a chance to get holdered at equal grade or lower only during a re-holder. Do they call you first before ruining your card?

This is what a "sports card guarantee" is nowadays? Charging the submitter for the cost of their new ownership.

Last edited by murphy8276; 09-24-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2019, 03:42 PM
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Wow, what a sad rule by SGC.

I bet they haven't been contacting people that their card bumped higher for free during re-holder... So you have a chance to get holdered at equal grade or lower only during a re-holder. Do they call you first before ruining your card?

This is what a "sports card guarantee" is nowadays? Charging the submitter for the cost of their new ownership.
Can this be verified somewhere? I've heard absolutely nothing about a re-holder at SGC being anything other than just that. And have seen no complaints about reholders being downgraded en masse on this forum or any other.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
Fresh back from SGC, looks very nice in the new holder. That being said it still appears very worthy of a bump with the corners being so nice.




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Geez that looks amazing! Great card! I would agree with most here that you should keep it in the SGC holder if itís a PC card. If youíre planning to sell in the next 2-3 years, then a crossover might be a good move. Your card has great eye appeal so it should get a strong buy regardless of holder. Whatís the difference in realized prices for an SGC 6 vs a PSA 6 for this big boy?


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  #26  
Old 09-25-2019, 03:38 PM
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PSA 6 is $16,959 and SGC 6 is $13,250 on the website that tracks auction/sales prices.
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  #27  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
Can this be verified somewhere? I've heard absolutely nothing about a re-holder at SGC being anything other than just that. And have seen no complaints about reholders being downgraded en masse on this forum or any other.
#18 in their terms was adjusted to include lingo that will cover their previous ownership's over-grading. There are several threads across the forums where people went through this. SGC regraded without even telling them and when they were questioned they said they do not guarantee their previous ownerships grading. It is assumed that SGC over-graded some things in the past, but the new SGC will never contact someone to tell them they were auto-upgraded. lol!

18. In the event SGC, in SGC’s sole and absolute opinion, determines that an item within an SGC holder is fraudulent, tampered with, or is not accurately described, then SGC is authorized, without further notice to Customer, to remove the item from the holder. In addition, if an item has been previously graded by SGC and placed in a holder, and such item is subsequently damaged due to Customer’s lack of care, then SGC reserves the right to remove the item from its holder, and is under no obligation to re-grade such an item.

Last edited by murphy8276; 09-26-2019 at 01:28 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
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18. In the event SGC, in SGCís sole and absolute opinion, determines that an item within an SGC holder is fraudulent, tampered with, or is not accurately described, then SGC is authorized, without further notice to Customer, to remove the item from the holder. In addition, if an item has been previously graded by SGC and placed in a holder, and such item is subsequently damaged due to Customerís lack of care, then SGC reserves the right to remove the item from its holder, and is under no obligation to re-grade such an item.
I guess it depends on how much detail you want to read into their 18-B. What does "not accurately described" really mean? Is that with respect to the grade, or is it more along the lines of if they put a 1962 Clemente in a slab that says 1963?

Agree with you that the escape clause seems to be there if they want to re-grade. Regardless, I have not heard an infusion of complaints about this in the past year or so.
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  #29  
Old 09-26-2019, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
I guess it depends on how much detail you want to read into their 18-B. What does "not accurately described" really mean? Is that with respect to the grade, or is it more along the lines of if they put a 1962 Clemente in a slab that says 1963?

Agree with you that the escape clause seems to be there if they want to re-grade. Regardless, I have not heard an infusion of complaints about this in the past year or so.
I do not think they have been rampantly doing it, but there have been a few threads about it and the warning should be out there. I will see if I can find one if they included any searchable key words. I remember an original poster stating that the owners told them, "we didn't grade this the last time so we had to re-assess it to see if it met our standards". That would be the equivalent of PSA saying, "one of our old graders got a new job, and now we force a review of anything he graded".

I find it interesting that somehow they do not guarantee the previous grade's accuracy, yet it is in their name. I guess that is why they spelled it wrong in the name-- "Guaranty" .

Last edited by murphy8276; 09-26-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-26-2019, 08:56 PM
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Months after they removed it, I still don't see any guarantee on the website. Am I missing it? I was told when I inquired (months ago) that they were just reviewing the language in light of recent events and that it would be back up shortly, but I don't think it's happened.
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  #31  
Old 09-28-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
Very intriguing thought, that does seem like a good option. Assuming you have had some luck doing it that way? Worst case scenario I get the new SGC holder which is a vast improvement over the current holder.
How about you just leave it and enjoy it. This is what is wrong with the hobby, poor perception.
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  #32  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:31 AM
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How about you just leave it and enjoy it. This is what is wrong with the hobby, poor perception.
Or sell it.
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Old 10-05-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
Thanks, Iím really happy with the card. I like the look of the new SGC holders and this card would look sweet in the new case with the black flip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
I think the best bet is just to reholder it with SGC and enjoy it!
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Originally Posted by investinrookies View Post
I dont plan on flipping the card so likely will just leave it in the new SGC 6 case.
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