baseball playoffs

[Peter_Spaeth]

4-3 with an 0.95 ERA. Case closed.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4-3 with an 0.95 ERA. Case closed.

right he won one more game than he lost. So in a Huge game he had a little over a 50/50 chance to win . Its not the total runs that matter, its when you give up the runs.

The opposing pitchers just took better care of business (bob shaw, kaat, palmer ) than Koufax did in those 3 losses or about half the games in pitched in the postseason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

double post

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...a01&t=p&post=1

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...l01&t=p&post=1

If you want to even suggest these are comparable, you can have that discussion with yourself. Spin it any way you want to. Kershaw has been a major disappointment in the post-season overall, and (so far anyhow, who knows he may not be done) he has been mediocre at best this year.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...a01&t=p&post=1

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...l01&t=p&post=1

If you want to even suggest these are comparable, you can have that discussion with yourself. Spin it any way you want to. Kershaw has been a major disappointment in the post-season overall, and (so far anyhow, who knows he may not be done) he has been mediocre at best this year.

Not here to compare, but i think people would be surprised that Koufax was only 4-3 in the postseason and kershaw isnt close to be being done yet..and like the other poster said, there were a ton of inherited runners that scored that could easily of dropped Kershaws era to the 3.00 range and more runs are scored in todays game then they were in Koufax's time....

Basically if Urias started game 1 and game 4 for the dodgers i really do not think the dodgers win both games. In game 4, if the Nationals jumped out ahead in the first few innings the Dodgers i think lose. The fact kershaw put up all those early zeros means something to go along with 11ks

Just saying Kerhaw really has not disappointed in the playoffs thus far THIS YEAR with his team winning both games...and really nothing to criticize him for this year when he got the W and he was in line for the W in game 4 on short rest and the Dodgers winning both of his starts in a 5 game series..

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right he won one more game than he lost. So in a Huge game he had a little over a 50/50 chance to win . Its not the total runs that matter, its when you give up the runs.

The opposing pitchers just took better care of business (bob shaw, kaat, palmer ) than Koufax did in those 3 losses or about half the games in pitched in the postseason.

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6.70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6/70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

+1. Or conversely, said to have performed poorly because he lost? So Kershaw (W, ERA 5.40) pitched better in his NLDS Game #1 than Cueto (L, ERA 1.13) did in his? One would have to be a fool to propose such a nonsense.

[itjclarke]

Surprised Cubs fans are silent after the last couple nights. As a Giants fan, those were two of the most unforgettable playoff games I've been to. Game 3 was the ultimate high, Game 4 was the ultimate gut punch (still recovering). Can't believe Giants gave up 4 in the 9th... but then again I can, because the irpen's done it all year (30 blown saves and 2 more in consecutive nights vs the Cubs).

Can't take anything away from the Cubs, and give them full credit. In addition to being the most talented team in the league, they are incredibly scrappy and resilient. That said, it's a shame for all baseball fans this series couldn't have gone back to Chicago for game 5 and what would have been a EPIC matchup between Cueto and Lester.

[RTK]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Surprised Cubs fans are silent after the last couple nights. As a Giants fan, those were two of the most unforgettable playoff games I've been to. Game 3 was the ultimate high, Game 4 was the ultimate gut punch (still recovering). Can't believe Giants gave up 4 in the 9th... but then again I can, because the irpen's done it all year (30 blown saves and 2 more in consecutive nights vs the Cubs).

Can't take anything away from the Cubs, and give them full credit. In addition to being the most talented team in the league, they are incredibly scrappy and resilient. That said, it's a shame for all baseball fans this series couldn't have gone back to Chicago for game 5 and what would have been a EPIC matchup between Cueto and Lester.

They are scrappy, I saw four walk off games this year. They just don't give up. Unlike other years, we in the Chicago area, aren't hearing too much about the past; '69,'84, '89, etc... It's as if it's buried and forgotten, the guys playing today don't care, the fans don't care, everyone seems to be going for the kill. There seems to be a confidence like never before.

Cueto would have been very tough, he matches up well against the Cubs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I know about pitch counts, but I don't get yanking a guy who was in complete mastery of the game.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

this is 100% wrong. pitcher wins mean doodley squat. You are basically arguing that a pitcher goes 0-6 in the playoffs with a 1.12 ERA and a 1.50 FIP was worse than a guy who goes 4-2 with a 6/70 era and a 7.05 FIP.

Why should the pitcher get credit for how good his offense performed?

I agree that Ws dont matter at all statisticlaly but we all know how history looks back at games. If Kershaws teams won every one of his past starts, noone would be saying how bad he was in the postseaon if he was 9-0. .

ERA isnt the sole indicator either or really important at all if your team wins every game. If your team scores 9 runs in the first inning, nobody cares if you then give up 5 runs in 7 innings which would lead to a brutal ERA but would give you the W. I do not think you would blame a pitcher for giving up 5 runs in that situation.

Like i said, if Manning lost the superbowl last year, we would be hearing a lot more of his legacy being tarnished. However his team bailed him out and it does matter when you look back at his career 20 years from now.

Just at it would matter for Kershaw if he won all of his postseason games but had an era of 6.00

What was Manning's QBR for the superbowl, does it matter since he won (even though it was a team win) They will still say has 2 'rings'.

In addition, Curry wasnt great for his lone Golden State Championship but his team got the 'W'. Wins matter even if you arent the one that was the main contributer and were supposed to be is all i am saying

Again, to keep on topic, i dont see Kershaw hurting his post season image this year with his team winning both of his starts..

[bravos4evr]

welll... quarterbacks are like presidents they get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. I think it's an unfair comparison to make (qb vs pitcher I mean)


The thing is, if my team put up 9 runs early I would expect my pitcher to throw strikes and get outs rather than give up 5 runs. and if he did I wouldn't say he had a good outing because the team won, I would say the offense carried the day despite a lousy performance.

History tends tends to be written by sports writers, and they are moving towards a metric way of thinking so eventually some of these antiquated narratives will be replaced with more modern thinking ones and all will be well. stats don't lie, and true it is a small sample size, but Kershaw has had some issues in the postseason. IDK if it is nerves or opposing teams are less prone to take pitches and swing away earlier or what, but he needs to make some adjustments to his strategy apparently.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

welll... quarterbacks are like presidents they get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. I think it's an unfair comparison to make (qb vs pitcher I mean)


The thing is, if my team put up 9 runs early I would expect my pitcher to throw strikes and get outs rather than give up 5 runs. and if he did I wouldn't say he had a good outing because the team won, I would say the offense carried the day despite a lousy performance.

History tends tends to be written by sports writers, and they are moving towards a metric way of thinking so eventually some of these antiquated narratives will be replaced with more modern thinking ones and all will be well. stats don't lie, and true it is a small sample size, but Kershaw has had some issues in the postseason. IDK if it is nerves or opposing teams are less prone to take pitches and swing away earlier or what, but he needs to make some adjustments to his strategy apparently.

I agree with most of what you said actually.

The only thing is for me is i do think a pitcher did his job if his team scores 9 runs for him if he gives up 5 runs..

things happen in a 9 run lead...you have a guy on 3rd with less than 2 outs you dont care if he scores. You also would rather have a guy hit a homer out the park then walk him when one guy is on base. It could be argued that a pitcher trying to keep his era in the 1.00-2.00 range in a 9-0 game may risk giving up a HUGE inning if he doesnt take the sure outs.

Even if its only a 1% chance that you give up 10 runs, i wouldnt risk it. Id rather give up 5 runs for certain and nothing more if up 9 runs than have a 1 percent chance to give up 10 runs with the attempt of keeping my ERA down to the 1-2 range


I know i am focusing on extreme outliers. i just trying to help out the pitchers that focus on the team wins then their era in all of the samples in between.

If Dodgers end up winning game 5 Kershaw could conceivably be top 5 guy for MVP of the series (would go to Janson.Turner )...thats not exactly terrible

[bravos4evr]

you have a guy on 3rd with less than 2 outs you dont care if he scores. You also would rather have a guy hit a homer out the park then walk him when one guy is on base. It could be argued that a pitcher trying to keep his era in the 1.00-2.00 range in a 9-0 game may risk giving up a HUGE inning if he doesnt take the sure outs.

true you might not be too concerned if he scores, but it would be much better if he didn't. and no, I would not rather a batter hit a bomb than walk, the odds of scoring on first with no outs isn't all that high, the odds of scoring with a HR are 100%!


sure a pitcher can "skate by" giving up 5 runs, but I wouldn't feel to confident about his next playoff start. I want pitchers to dominate and keep runs off the board if it's 10-0 or 1-1.