Mid-Grade Collectors

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Natswin2019

I'm glad this thread got bumped to the top because you guys are my kind of collectors. I like low grade cards for many of the reasons that you guys have already said. I like how it gives them a certain character and makes them feel more real. I usually don't mind if there's a visible crease or 2, if they are off center or has bad corners. The only things that bother me are paper loss, lots of writing or if part of the card are missing. I'm also a big fan of how it allows me to afford more cards in the set that I'm building or more of the random cards that I think are cool and to pick up.

I look for the same type of cards as you. It's all about how the card looks, and there are plenty of lower grade cards that look just fine when they are in a binder. I'm fine with some minor creases as long as they don't have a major impact on how the card looks. I also try to avoid paper loss and writing as well as tears and pinholes. There is no way I would have nearly as much in my collection otherwise.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I understand the feeling of not wanting writing on a card in your set, but I love cards like this. I just imagine the kid drawing all over the card back in the 60's and think they are awesome. I'd have a better copy for my set, but definitely like having these in my collection all the same.


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[Tere1071]

My war crimes against cards:

In 1970 I collected the Odd Rods stickers along with my baseball cards. I stuck the Odd Rods on a box and when they began to come off I glued them to my baseball cards.

Also, my grandmother decided to separate mine and my brother's 1970s by writing "Santa Claus" on the fronts of his cards. He was going through an identity crisis as a 5-year-old at the time, calling himself Santa.

For 1971 I discovered the magic of push pins and I put several of my 71 Topps on the wall by pushing the pin through the dot on the front of the card.

Finally, in 1976, I wanted to display some of my Clemente cards in frames on the wall of my bedroom. Lacking plastic sheets I taped them to the backing of the frames. Needless to say, when I finally decided to remove the cards, it damaged the backs. I had to replace them all.

Just wondering, did any of my former cards end up in anyone's collections?

[mortimer brewster]

I have been collecting since 1978 and have always liked cards in ex-mt or better condition.

Card prices for cards in NM condition (pre 1980) are bordering on the ridiculous.

I attempted to buy a 1975 common in a Greg Morris auction several weeks ago. It was NM with a big print dot. I was willing to pay 2.00. The darn thing sold for 11.50. A bidding war for Larrin freaking Lagrow.

I've come to the conclusion that even tho I don't collect graded cards I am still bidding against investors who are buying cards to grade.

For this reason, mid grade is the way to go. As long as the card has decent centering with honest wear, that's good enough for me.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

Also, my grandmother decided to separate mine and my brother's 1970s by writing "Santa Claus" on the fronts of his cards. He was going through an identity crisis as a 5-year-old at the time, calling himself Santa.

That's the best anecdote I've heard in quite some time...

[jchcollins]

I have mentioned it before, perhaps even somewhere back in the history of this very thread - but to me the tradeoff between midgrade or lower and true high grade cards also comes back to my eventual disappointment with true high grade cards. Whether subconsciously or not, if I buy a vintage card in a PSA 7 or 8, I'm going to expect it to be virtually perfect. The problem there of course is "virtually perfect" cards are 10's, not 7's. I've fallen into that trap again at least once even as recently as this spring - that PSA 7 which was so nice looking actually had an edge ding I'm not happy with, or that SGC 88 which looked great online has dull color in real life. The truth is I would not be unhappy with either card if they had been in the 5 - 6 range and I had paid correspondingly lower for them. But when I pay for higher, I apparently get the problem of unrealistic expectation onset - even though I've known how to properly grade for decades.

[Tere1071]

Two thoughts- Back in the 1970s having a card that was ex/mint was fine. The notion of having something "gem mint" was exploited by a number of the "rock star" dealers who hyped cards as an investment. I remember that even Mr. Mint himself, Al Rosen, initially opposed graded cards, but he sure pushed his other inventory.

Secondly, some of you may be familiar with Bill Heitmann. I once had a conversation with him back in the 80s where we mused on the notion of "gem mint." He noted that most cards are printed on acidic paper which over time breaks down. His point was that the term "gem mint" was a misnomer as our objects of devotion begin to break down little by little over time- much like our significant non-sports card others (my comment, not his.)

A card doesn't have to be "perfect" to validate a collection.

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I have mentioned it before, perhaps even somewhere back in the history of this very thread - but to me the tradeoff between midgrade or lower and true high grade cards also comes back to my eventual disappointment with true high grade cards. Whether subconsciously or not, if I buy a vintage card in a PSA 7 or 8, I'm going to expect it to be virtually perfect. The problem there of course is "virtually perfect" cards are 10's, not 7's. I've fallen into that trap again at least once even as recently as this spring - that PSA 7 which was so nice looking actually had an edge ding I'm not happy with, or that SGC 88 which looked great online has dull color in real life. The truth is I would not be unhappy with either card if they had been in the 5 - 6 range and I had paid correspondingly lower for them. But when I pay for higher, I apparently get the problem of unrealistic expectation onset - even though I've known how to properly grade for decades.

I feel the same way! If I get a great looking 6 I think I got a deal, but if I see a flaw in a 7 I’m annoyed. It’s like my optimism-pessimism for expectations flips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by IgnatiusJReilly

I feel the same way! If I get a great looking 6 I think I got a deal, but if I see a flaw in a 7 I’m annoyed. It’s like my optimism-pessimism for expectations flips.

I don't have this problem for the most part with 60's cards and earlier because it's rare that I buy a 7 or higher there. But recently for '72 and '76 projects, I decided to buy a few 7's and 8's. Some I was happy with. But the '72 Clemente in an 8 which was basically a 10 with a noticeable edge ding was horrible. I couldn't get over it. I sold the card and bought a slightly o/c 6 for a price I was happy with. (The corners on the 6 are gem, btw. Centering and a minor print flaw were apparently the only problems...) My '76 Nolan Ryan in an SGC 5.5 looks better than my original of the the same card in an 8, which has sharper corners, but horrible dull coloring. So the lesson learned was I apparently don't need to buy super high grade in 70's cards either...

[STM56]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

My war crimes against cards:

In 1970 I collected the Odd Rods stickers along with my baseball cards. I stuck the Odd Rods on a box and when they began to come off I glued them to my baseball cards.

Also, my grandmother decided to separate mine and my brother's 1970s by writing "Santa Claus" on the fronts of his cards. He was going through an identity crisis as a 5-year-old at the time, calling himself Santa.

For 1971 I discovered the magic of push pins and I put several of my 71 Topps on the wall by pushing the pin through the dot on the front of the card.

Finally, in 1976, I wanted to display some of my Clemente cards in frames on the wall of my bedroom. Lacking plastic sheets I taped them to the backing of the frames. Needless to say, when I finally decided to remove the cards, it damaged the backs. I had to replace them all.

Just wondering, did any of my former cards end up in anyone's collections?

Along these lines recently I had a conversation with a childhood friend about our card collections. We both have our original cards from the 60’s/70’s. I told him that I had sent some of my cards in for grading and he got interested and asked a few questions about the process. I asked him about the condition of his cards and he indicated that they were in pretty good shape. After a few more minutes he said “at some point I decided I needed to be able to identify my cards in case they got stolen or mixed up with somebody else’s cards so I took a hole punch and punched holes in the top left corner of my cards”. I think my reply was “Ouch that’s not good”.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by STM56

Along these lines recently I had a conversation with a childhood friend about our card collections. We both have our original cards from the 60’s/70’s. I told him that I had sent some of my cards in for grading and he got interested and asked a few questions about the process. I asked him about the condition of his cards and he indicated that they were in pretty good shape. After a few more minutes he said “at some point I decided I needed to be able to identify my cards in case they got stolen or mixed up with somebody else’s cards so I took a hole punch and punched holes in the top left corner of my cards”. I think my reply was “Ouch that’s not good”.

..

[DeanH3]

I haven't sold any vintage lately. I did move a few modern cards this summer to fund vintage buys and I have no regrets on those. I certainly could make a few bucks from the vintage I bought just a couple years ago. But, I don't have any plans to sell.

It's really nice to see these mid grade gems get the attention they deserve. I expect the trend to continue as more people recognize the value offered. Thanks to all for sharing.

[Exhibitman]

I've sold a bunch and plan to sell a bunch more. I am 'streamlining' my collection, clearing out the odds and ends I've accumulated over the last 30 years, because I can do it profitably now.

I did pick up a 55 Topps Mays. I've been procrastinating over one for a while and decided to get it done with some of the proceeds of the sales.

[jb67]

[QUOTE=DeanH3;2038685]I haven't sold any vintage lately. I did move a few modern cards this summer to fund vintage buys and I have no regrets on those. I certainly could make a few bucks from the vintage I bought just a couple years ago. But, I don't have any plans to sell.

It's really nice to see these mid grade gems get the attention they deserve. I expect the trend to continue as more people recognize the value offered. Thanks to all for sharing.

[IMG]https://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=813&pictureid=28223[/IMG

Love that Mays!!! Not to mention the rest of the 57’s you posted.

[Natswin2019]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I look for the same type of cards as you. It's all about how the card looks, and there are plenty of lower grade cards that look just fine when they are in a binder. I'm fine with some minor creases as long as they don't have a major impact on how the card looks. I also try to avoid paper loss and writing as well as tears and pinholes. There is no way I would have nearly as much in my collection otherwise.

Exactly my thinking. Why pay 500$ for a perfect card when I can get the same card for 20$ and the only difference is that the corners are a bit dinged up. I still get the same amount of enjoyment out of the card and can get several more cards with the money I saved.

[jgannon]

I think grading has become a fetish with modern collectors. I like a card in good condition, but so many collectors buy grades, not cards. Who cares? If you want to make money off of people who care about grades, it serves a purpose, I guess. You look at some of those cards in this thread that don't grade high, and to me, they're everything I would ever want in a baseball card. I don't think of them as "mid-grade". I think of them as good baseball cards.

[Tere1071]

I know what you mean. Last night I had hoped to pick up a few PSA 6 commons for my 53 Bowman color from the PWCC auction. The bids on those cards quickly ended that hope! However, there's a dealer on eBay, grpoch, that's selling a number of cards that are in decent, ungraded condition at a heck of a lot less money. I picked up a Billy Pierce that's in excellent condition for a fraction that the one sold for last night.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

I know what you mean. Last night I had hoped to pick up a few PSA 6 commons for my 53 Bowman color from the PWCC auction. The bids on those cards quickly ended that hope! However, there's a dealer on eBay, grpoch, that's selling a number of cards that are in decent, ungraded condition at a heck of a lot less money. I picked up a Billy Pierce that's in excellent condition for a fraction that the one sold for last night.

Yeah, good for you! I'll tell you the truth, I don't like slabs. To me, they're sterile prisons for the card. That's just my opinion of course. I could see putting a T206 Wagner in one, but to me, they overtake the card. I do put my cards in toploaders and also in sleeves. But with the topholder, it's almost like holding the card itself. You can go through them the way you do with cards.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Yeah, good for you! I'll tell you the truth, I don't like slabs. To me, they're sterile prisons for the card. That's just my opinion of course. I could see putting a T206 Wagner in one, but to me, they overtake the card. I do put my cards in toploaders and also in sleeves. But with the topholder, it's almost like holding the card itself. You can go through them the way you do with cards.

I prefer raw cards as well, but on the 53 Bowmans with the exception of the Reese and Campanella, I purchased the more expensive cards in slabs due to counterfeiting or doctoring cards. I posted a few of them on this page if you scroll up a bit. Eventually, I would like to trade my slabbed cards for their raw equivalents, but the non-slabbed cards would have to be in equal condition. If I had the money or could trade I wouldn't mind going for something that was raw that would be better than what I have slabbed.

[TexasDan]

Ignatius - I like your 56 collection. I am slowly working on a 56 HoF run myself. I have decided to pick up graded cards for this project.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

I prefer raw cards as well, but on the 53 Bowmans with the exception of the Reese and Campanella, I purchased the more expensive cards in slabs due to counterfeiting or doctoring cards. I posted a few of them on this page if you scroll up a bit. Eventually, I would like to trade my slabbed cards for their raw equivalents, but the non-slabbed cards would have to be in equal condition. If I had the money or could trade I wouldn't mind going for something that was raw that would be better than what I have slabbed.

Yeah, I can understand the concern about counterfeiting and doctoring. It's sad that things have gotten to that. You can always take your slabbed cards out of the slabs too!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Yeah, good for you! I'll tell you the truth, I don't like slabs. To me, they're sterile prisons for the card. That's just my opinion of course. I could see putting a T206 Wagner in one, but to me, they overtake the card. I do put my cards in toploaders and also in sleeves. But with the topholder, it's almost like holding the card itself. You can go through them the way you do with cards.

I posted in this thread way back and thought I was done, but I enjoy it so darn much! You guys are like my brothers from another mother! I don't really like slabs either, and I wonder how many collectors truly do? In no way am I trying to down how someone else collects. If someone likes collecting them, more power to them. No judgment from me whatsoever.

I am a bit frustrated though. At times I rant and rave about slabs, and I know I greatly prefer ungraded cards. Yet, many times when it comes that magical experience I like to call "buying time," I don't always find just a ton of ungraded options that I really feel good about. I have cracked slabs in my time but not lately. So, yes, I do have some lower to mid grade cards in a binder as part of sets, and I love them. I love handling them, smelling them, reading them, shuffling them, etc. But I also have a box with several slabs in them, and this is where most of the "value" of my collection rests.

I guess it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. Perhaps a little of both isn't the worst thing in the world. When buying a graded card, I still try and do my due diligence just as I would when buying an ungraded card. I believe in some cases, slabs have made us lazy in that we as collectors sometimes think we don't have to know as much about the cards we buy because the TPGer has done that work for us. As we all know, there are altered cards in TPGer slabs. I don't blindly accept their opinions. Plus, I want to do that work. That is collecting.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

I posted in this thread way back and thought I was done, but I enjoy it so darn much! You guys are like my brothers from another mother! I don't really like slabs either, and I wonder how many collectors truly do? In no way am I trying to down how someone else collects. If someone likes collecting them, more power to them. No judgment from me whatsoever.

I am a bit frustrated though. At times I rant and rave about slabs, and I know I greatly prefer ungraded cards. Yet, many times when it comes that magical experience I like to call "buying time," I don't always find just a ton of ungraded options that I really feel good about. I have cracked slabs in my time but not lately. So, yes, I do have some lower to mid grade cards in a binder as part of sets, and I love them. I love handling them, smelling them, reading them, shuffling them, etc. But I also have a box with several slabs in them, and this is where most of the "value" of my collection rests.

I guess it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. Perhaps a little of both isn't the worst thing in the world. When buying a graded card, I still try and do my due diligence just as I would when buying an ungraded card. I believe in some cases, slabs have made us lazy in that we as collectors sometimes think we don't have to know as much about the cards we buy because the TPGer has done that work for us. As we all know, there are altered cards in TPGer slabs. I don't blindly accept their opinions. Plus, I want to do that work. That is collecting.

Hey Robert -

Yeah, my whole thing about slabs, is that to me, it represents where the hobby got too cutthroat and mercenary. People concentrating more on the the resale value of the card, the card as an "investment", that kind of stuff. But there are also collector's who truly like that presentation, and like you say, if that's how they like to collect, it's cool. And with some cards also, it might be a good idea to buy a graded card to be on the safe side.

You know, I didn't really realize that this thread is over 2 years old! I'm going to go back and read the thread.

I had a huge collection of cards that I foolishly gave away. Mostly 60s and 70s stuff, with some 50s thrown in as well. Also had some football, basketball, and hockey. It really started to bother me a few years ago, and I got back into collecting last year, saying to myself, "Well, I'll never get the cards I had back at the price I got them at, but there's no reason why I can't buy a card I NEVER had!!" So, I bought a 1960 Topps Roger Maris. And that opened the floodgates, and I have since been acquiring many of the old cards I had, as well as ones I never did. I have a lot of them sitting on top of my piano, along with some family pictures and mementos. I love just going over there and looking at everything, putting a different card on top of the pile for a while, adding new cards, etc.

You know, when we talk about condition, I have a funny story. My cousin's son, was enthusiastic about cards, and he told me that a friend of his was really into it, and might like to buy some of the things I had. So, I went over with some doubles I had. I remember having a 1972 Nolan Ryan, but can't remember the other cards. At any rate, the kid gets over there (I was in my 30s at the time) and this kid, cold as ice, starts looking at the cards, and doesn't want one of them. I thought these were like mint cards, and he's pointing out so-called blemishes, and the centering - things that I never considered or noticed. These were good cards! It was a revelation to me that anyone would look at them like he was!

So, he left, and later on, my cousin's son went out, and I was just talking with my cousin and her husband for awhile. When I left, I just left all the cards for my cousin's son.