Sy Siedman Photo

[D. Broughman]

Question for you photo guys. Is this a 2nd generation Sy Siedman photo?

[thecatspajamas]

Unless that text under the photo is actually typed on the photo itself (look for indentations), I would say that it is a period reproduction, probably done by Seidman himself. Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be, someone please correct me if I'm wrong), the only way to get that text in the actual image would have been to make a print of the photo from the original negative, lay out the text underneath it either by pasting or typing directly on the original print, and then re-shoot the whole layout to produce a new negative from which prints could then be produced which would have the text as part of the actual image rather than having to re-apply it to every print individually.

I hope that makes sense. Assuming all of that is correct, it would be termed a "Type 3" photo which is a 2nd Generation photo produced in the same time period as the original shot was taken. Similar classification to a Wire Photo, though this one looks to have better quality (and the Wire Photo process hadn't been invented in 1915).

It looks like it is still a good quality photo (which isn't surprising considering if the shot was lousy, Seidman probably would have gone through the process again until he had a good print for distribution). If the text on the front IS typed directly on the print, then most likely it is a Type 1 that Seibert would have used in the same manner for reproduction. I have had a few George Burke prints that were similar in that they had lettering applied directly to the print, and I was able to match them up with other Burke photos which had the same lettering, only in the actual image, with both photos having Burke's stamping on the back.

That's my 2 cents on it. Anyone feel free to correct me though.

Lance

[thecatspajamas]

P.S. I also find it interesting that the photo was slabbed by CGC. I'm more familiar with their comic grading, and didn't realize they did photos.

Lance

[scgaynor]

I don't think that I have ever seen a 1st generation Sy Seidman photo. Most, if not all, of the Sy Seidman photos came from the Culver archive. CGC graded some of the photos for the company that purchased the archive, who was also a comic book dealer.

[D. Bergin]

From the ones I have run across, a large percentage of the "Culver Archive" were later generation prints and photos.

[drc]

The Culver Archives had both originals (type 1s) and second generation photos. You have to judge them one at a time.

[D. Broughman]

There is no indentation on the type so I presume it is a type 3 photo. I don't care for the way Culver used the comic book holders for pictures is it best to leave the photo in the holder. Does the Culver grading add to the value of the photo? I would rather see the photo matted and hanging on my wall. I have seen the Ty Cobb image on a 1914 score card. Thanks for all of your help! D.

[D. Bergin]

IMO the holder does absolutely nothing for the value of the photo, and the fact it came from Culver doesn't exactly put a premium on it, if the holder is the only thing signifying this fact.

Frame it up.

[prewarsports]

I am pretty sure it would be a type 4 (if you want to use that standard). I dont even know if Seidman was alive when that photo was taken, but he certainly was not an active photographer in the early 1900's. My guess is that it is a 1940's image from a photo of about 30 years before.

Rhys

[thecatspajamas]

You could always send the photo in to PSA for their photo identification service, have them crack it out of the slab and re-holder it in one of their own which are much thinner and framable. Or else crack it out yourself.

My experience with photos is that the "pedigree" of the photo (i.e. being from the Culver collection, Sporting News archives, etc.) is neat, but does little for the value of the photo. The quality and content of the image is most important, along with the "Type," in determining collector value. With news photos especially, a little wear is expected, so having it graded by a company that typically grades comic books isn't going to weigh too heavily in a sports collector's eyes. If they want it slabbed, they will probably have it done by PSA to match the rest of their collection.