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  #251  
Old 01-29-2017, 04:14 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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The forward pass is a fun topic to discuss. It became legal after the 1905 season. However the first team to build their offense around the forward pass was the 1906 St. Louis University team, coached by Eddie Cochems. The 1906 squad was undefeated 11–0, led the nation in scoring, and outscored opponents by a combined score of 407 to 11. The open game didn't catch on in the east until 1914, with Notre Dame and Yale (under Frank Hinkey).

In 1952, Dorais himself tried to set the record straight telling the United Press that "Eddie Cochems of the St. Louis University team of 1906 deserves the full credit." Certainly Cochems considered himself the 'Father of the forward pass'. See the attached signed note below.

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  #252  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:18 PM
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Of course, Mark has the signed document!
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  #253  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:31 AM
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Nice item, Mark!

jeff
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  #254  
Old 02-08-2017, 02:11 AM
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Thanks guys. Speaking of football firsts - When was the huddle first utilized? I've read some reports that in 1894 Paul Hubbard of Gallaudet College, a Washington DC based college for the deaf, created the 'huddle' to prevent opposing teams from seeing their signs. Another report states Univ of Penn created the huddle in 1894 to aid Alfred E Bull, their star center, who was deaf.

I found the photo posted below tossed between the pages of a prominent Yale football player's scrapbook, who played end for the Bulldogs from 1892-94. I didn't think much of it at first but could this be the earliest photo of a football 'huddle'? I can't identify any of the players but coach Mike Murphy is in the center.

Any thoughts?

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  #255  
Old 02-08-2017, 02:44 PM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfhofer View Post
Thanks guys. Speaking of football firsts - When was the huddle first utilized? I've read some reports that in 1894 Paul Hubbard of Gallaudet College, a Washington DC based college for the deaf, created the 'huddle' to prevent opposing teams from seeing their signs. Another report states Univ of Penn created the huddle in 1894 to aid Alfred E Bull, their star center, who was deaf.

I found the photo posted below tossed between the pages of a prominent Yale football player's scrapbook, who played end for the Bulldogs from 1892-94. I didn't think much of it at first but could this be the earliest photo of a football 'huddle'? I can't identify any of the players but coach Mike Murphy is in the center.

Any thoughts?

My first inclination is that this is just a coaching session or pep talk during a practice. Doesn't look like a football huddle in a game to me as the coach is involved. Or a timeout / water break?

Still a really, really cool image, Mark!

jeff
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  #256  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:55 PM
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Jeff,

Yea, that is my guess too. Plus one of the players is holding the ball. Doubt that would occur in a game.
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  #257  
Old 02-14-2017, 07:46 PM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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I think you guys cracked the case but still a very cool photo.
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  #258  
Old 03-01-2017, 04:54 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Was fortunate to pick up this card recently. Spalding's come in Bio backs, Ad backs, and blank backs. I've never seen an Ad Back of Friedman before. Has anyone else?





jeff
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  #259  
Old 03-03-2017, 06:53 PM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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What, no love for the Spalding Friedman? Thought this thread would blow up!

jeff
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  #260  
Old 04-04-2017, 03:35 AM
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I've always loved the Wheaties box cuts from the 30s and wrote an article on them (with Joe Squires) a while back for Gridiron Greats Magazine. Picked up this really nice 13x10 Wheaties point of sale display piece recently that is pretty rare. Most of the player images on it are the same as the Wheaties 1934 All-Americans box cuts.



Here are a couple of postcards of Carlisle football players who played with Thorpe.



Early 1910s image of Emil Hauser who also played at Oregon.



1920s image of Gus Welch who was Thorpe's QB at both Carlisle and Canton.

Last but not least, 1908 original photo of Thorpe.



jeff

Last edited by jefferyepayne; 04-04-2017 at 03:35 AM.
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  #261  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:01 PM
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Default A pair from Strongsville

St Boneventure and Colby

Angyale
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  #262  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:25 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Hey guys,

I was going through the 1887 Yale Pot-Pourri (yearbook) and noticed this photo of the 1886 Yale football team. George Alvin Watkinson's photo was altered on this team photograph too (bottom right). Watkinson was considered one of the best football players in the country in 1885 and 86. He came down with an illness prior to the last game of the 1886 season against Princeton. Although he played well he died a few weeks later. I wonder if the individual in the photo was just a stand-in all along. Any thoughts?


Here is my team photo (also altered) along with a single photo of Watkinson from my 1889 Pach Yearbook.



Last edited by cfhofer; 05-28-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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  #263  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:13 AM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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Here's the picture from Intercollegiate Football 1869-1934 - not sure if that's a different person front right


Last edited by revmoran; 05-28-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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  #264  
Old 05-28-2017, 12:34 PM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Thanks Rev. Tough to tell if he is the same guy, but I think it is (see below). Both team photos were taken at the same sitting. I once thought it was William Graves, but I'm wrong. Any idea who that is? He definitely wasn't a starter. Couldn't be too thrilled that his photo was being covered up.

Last edited by cfhofer; 05-28-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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  #265  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:10 PM
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same body and hands



different head


Last edited by revmoran; 05-28-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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  #266  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:45 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Spot on Rev. I wonder who the guy on the left is? I think he is the same guy who was covered up on my 1886 team photo (back row, fifth from the right). You can see that Watkinson's head was glued onto that photo too.
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  #267  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:08 AM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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Here is the photo from The Yale Football Story by Tim Cohane

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  #268  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:35 PM
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Thanks Rev. Very interesting. Clearly that isn't Watkinson.
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  #269  
Old 06-02-2017, 05:56 AM
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Quite a mystery, guys! I hope you figure it out.

jeff
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  #270  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:47 AM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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George Robert Carter was a lettermen from 1886 who is not listed as being in the 1886 picture. He is listed in the 1887 picture standing next to Corbin - he might be our man. A Major in WW I he was later Governor of Hawaii

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  #271  
Old 06-06-2017, 11:48 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Rev,

I think Carter is labeled as "Reynolds" in the 1886 photo you posted (from Cohane's book). In my altered photo I think Carter is sitting down in front of Corbin. Both team photos were taken the same day.
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  #272  
Old 06-06-2017, 02:19 PM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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Camp's Yale Her Campus, Classrooms and Athletics also lists an S. B. Morison '90 as a Y man in football in 1886. Yale Football Y Men also identifies a letterman named George Grant Mason - don't know who Monson is in Cohane's photo - neither the Camp book nor the Yale Football Y Men have that name. Maybe our mystery man is Morison or Mason.

Last edited by revmoran; 06-06-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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  #273  
Old 06-07-2017, 06:40 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Rev,

You could be on to something. I don't have individual photos of either those guys to compare. I have a yearbook with the 1890 football team, which has the Morison brothers. SB has a mustache in it though. I'll try to post a scan of it later today.
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  #274  
Old 06-07-2017, 04:16 PM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Hey Guys,

Picked up a fantastic 1889 Yale Pach Bros album from a member of this forum (thanks Mike). These photos are from the Sheffield Scientific School and are a great compliment to the Yale College album.

William Charles Wurtenburg '89S (quarterback photo and senior portrait)



Charles Otis Gill '89 and Frederick William Wallace '89


Amos Alonzo Stagg '88


Cheers

Mark

Last edited by cfhofer; 06-09-2017 at 03:51 PM.
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  #275  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:09 PM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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For those who collect 1894 Mayo Football Cards and/or interested in the Yale Skull & Bones, you may get a kick out of an item from our Hinkey Archive recently posted on www.frankhinkey.com. Check it out!

Below is a direct link to our Vault page.

Cheers

Mark
https://www.frankhinkey.com/The-Vault.php
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  #276  
Old 06-24-2017, 06:19 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Rev,

I've attached senior pics of William Graves and Samuel Morison. I don't think our mystery guy is either. I'm going to the Yale Archives later this summer to solve our mystery.

Full disclosure: These photos are not from my collection. They come from a beautiful 1891 Skull & Bones album available for purchase on Abebooks.com. Price is a bit steep though ($6500).

Cheers

Mark



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  #277  
Old 08-27-2017, 11:20 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Posted this in a Wheaties thread on the main forum but it got no love from the baseball guys. Recently turned over the items in my display case and made it all about vintage Wheaties football.

Check it out and let me know what you think.







jeff
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  #278  
Old 08-27-2017, 09:20 PM
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That's a great display and some of those are really tough.
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  #279  
Old 08-28-2017, 02:26 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Thanks for checking my display out, Jason.

Yep, some of the Wheaties panels are really tough. I'm still missing a few that I've been searching for for almost a decade now.

Also trying to upgrade them all to full box backs that include the Wheaties tab at the bottom. That's pretty challenging too!

jeff
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  #280  
Old 08-28-2017, 11:52 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Beautiful collection Jeff! Those Wheaties cards are super tough. I really like the way you have them displayed too. What do you think about draping some black or brown felt over the cardboard boxes in back?

Curious...What is the football of on top?

Mark

Last edited by cfhofer; 08-28-2017 at 11:53 AM.
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  #281  
Old 08-28-2017, 02:19 PM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfhofer View Post
Beautiful collection Jeff! Those Wheaties cards are super tough. I really like the way you have them displayed too. What do you think about draping some black or brown felt over the cardboard boxes in back?

Curious...What is the football of on top?

Mark
That's exactly what I plan to do, Mark. Just haven't found the right material yet to do so. Also looking to get the glass shelf that belongs on the left put back in so I can use it when I want too.

The football isn't actually related to Wheaties. It's a Wilson Red Grange ball from 1920's signed and dated by Grange.







These footballs came in this box:



jeff
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  #282  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:43 PM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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That is a great football Jeff. Nice early signature of Grange too. Museum quality stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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  #283  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:12 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfhofer View Post
That is a great football Jeff. Nice early signature of Grange too. Museum quality stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Mark. Appreciate the feedback. The football was signed at a theater from the inscription. I wonder whether it was a premier or something. Otherwise why would someone bring a football for him to sign?

It doesn't look like any of Grange's movies came out in 1929 but perhaps this was the first showing of one of his previous movies at this theater. Who knows?

jeff
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  #284  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:42 PM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Jeff,

Any idea where that theater was? If you can identify the theater maybe we can track down a local newspaper article from that day.
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  #285  
Old 08-29-2017, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
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Jeff,

Any idea where that theater was? If you can identify the theater maybe we can track down a local newspaper article from that day.
Says "Iowa Theater" on the inscription. I did some research on it a while back. It may be the Iowa Theater still located in Madison County, IA as its history says its been around since the 1800s. But the name is so common that I don't know this for sure. There are a couple of other existing Iowa Theaters in the state of Iowa too.

Couldn't find any reference to Grange being anywhere on 1/21/29 but am not an expert at digging through newspaper archives.

jeff
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  #286  
Old 08-29-2017, 04:51 PM
revmoran revmoran is offline
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  #287  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:42 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Wow, your research skills are second to none, Mike! Which newspaper archive service do you use?

jeff
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  #288  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:52 AM
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newspapers.com for that one
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  #289  
Old 08-31-2017, 07:05 AM
cfhofer cfhofer is offline
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Great detective work Rev! Mystery solved.
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  #290  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:42 PM
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How many different do you have? which are you missing...


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  #291  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:56 PM
mmier118 mmier118 is offline
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Wow on the wheaties display and the Grange football, I need a dentist I think I chipped a tooth when my jaw hit the floor.
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  #292  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
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How many different do you have? which are you missing...
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Missing three. Any doubles, Carl? Anybody else? Would love to finish these sets.

1934 Wheaties All-Americans:
Dixie Howell
Williams Sheperd

Six Man Football:
Ossie Solem

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Wow on the wheaties display and the Grange football, I need a dentist I think I chipped a tooth when my jaw hit the floor.
Thanks Mike. Appreciate the feedback.

jeff
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  #293  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:49 PM
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No dups, it took me a long time too. I tried to get them with full borders so SGC would give them a numerical grade.


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  #294  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:58 PM
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No dups, it took me a long time too. I tried to get them with full borders so SGC would give them a numerical grade.


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  #295  
Old 09-05-2017, 11:22 AM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Great stuff, Carl. I was originally going to try and put some 1940-41 Champ Stamps Wheaties in my display case too but ran out of room. Didn't even come close to getting all of my 1935-36 Wheaties items in as it is.

I may redo this case as a 1940s-50s Wheaties display at some point in the future but just enjoying it like it is for now.

What is the one that looks like a football field that you've included with the Big Ten Wheaties set? I've never seen that one before!

jeff

Last edited by jefferyepayne; 09-06-2017 at 06:09 AM.
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  #296  
Old 09-05-2017, 05:16 PM
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Where did you find that display cabinet? Any maker mark and how old?


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I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix.
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  #297  
Old 09-05-2017, 06:43 PM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Where did you find that display cabinet? Any maker mark and how old?


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I bought it from an elderly gentleman who said he purchased it when a old local drug store was going out of business about 40 years ago. It is really, really heavy and the glass is thick. It has an old push button light switch on the back but no lights were attached. I plan to put lights in the display case some day and hook back up the old fashion push button switch to use them.

No maker mark on it that I can find.

jeff
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  #298  
Old 09-05-2017, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyepayne View Post
I bought it from an elderly gentleman who said he purchased it when a old local drug store was going out of business about 40 years ago. It is really, really heavy and the glass is thick. It has an old push button light switch on the back but no lights were attached. I plan to put lights in the display case some day and hook back up the old fashion push button switch to use them.



No maker mark on it that I can find.



jeff


Thanks...be sure to use LED lights when you're wore it so stuff also want fade. Great display (and cards, too)!


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I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix.
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  #299  
Old 09-05-2017, 08:23 PM
jefferyepayne jefferyepayne is offline
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Thanks...be sure to use LED lights when you're wore it so stuff also want fade. Great display (and cards, too)!


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Will do, Matt. Thanks for the advice!

jeff
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  #300  
Old 09-05-2017, 08:39 PM
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It's a football field, maybe part of the Big 10 Football game, but I found it included in a collection with the others I have depicted


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