One T206, Two Names

[Runscott]

Anyone look into having such cards slabbed by SGC with a '2 name' designation'?

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Anyone look into having such cards slabbed by SGC with a '2 name' designation'?

I asked Earl at the National and he said that they had have no intention of noting that on the slab.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by t206hound

I asked Earl at the National and he said that they had have no intention of noting that on the slab.

I was just curious - I have two nice examples and have no intention of having them slabbed.

(If Earl read this thread, he might change his mind - SGC, like everyone else, is really into the whole profit concept.)

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by NashvilleBaseball

Thanks John & Tim. I guess when you deduce the number of subjects to 48 and only 3 backs possible, relatively speaking, the cards would be "rare" or scarce to find a 2 name one card scenario... Just odd we don't see more of them... So unofficially the SL list is at 2 with McCauley & Lipe. 46 more to go...

Regarding double name (not two name) SLs I've had at least two... Foley White was one. I can probably dig up scans.

[Jantz]

NashvilleBaseball/Jeremy - I've never seen a two different name SLer, but as shown by other members already, two same name SLers do exist.

McCauley and Lipe have already been mentioned. I can add Revelle to the list. By the way, all three of them have an Old Mill back.

Maybe the White Er!ck mentioned has a OM back too.

Also Jeremy, of all the two different name T206s found so far, none of them have a 460 series back.



Jantz

[Brian Weisner]

Hey Jantz,
I have a Shag and Molesworth.... both with OM backs...

Be well Brian

[t206hound]

Sold in the June 2012 Sterling Auction... someone got a steal as it cost me $100 raw. Just not quite enough name at the top for me.

[atx840]

Here is a good article on a possible sheet layout, it is thought multiple examples were stacked three to four high.

http://www.t206resource.com/Article-...stique-34.html

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

Here is a good article on a possible sheet layout, it is thought multiple examples were stacked three to four high.

http://www.t206resource.com/Article-...stique-34.html

Very nice article. The 34-card, 2 player per column sheet theory would mean that for each column you could have one card with two different names (the 3rd card from the bottom) and four cards with two of the same name (all but the top card in each column and the aforementioned 3rd from the bottom).

If each '2-name' card has the same odds of being miscut to show 2 names (Steve or Tim would have to answer that question), then that's a 4-1 ratio - is that about what we've seen?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Very nice article. The 34-card, 2 player per column sheet theory would mean that for each column you could have one card with two different names (the 3rd card from the bottom) and four cards with two of the same name (all but the top card in each column and the aforementioned 3rd from the bottom).

If each '2-name' card has the same odds of being miscut to show 2 names (Steve or Tim would have to answer that question), then that's a 4-1 ratio - is that about what we've seen?

I'm not sure about the ratio of double name to two name cards.

The likelihood of the same number being cut wrong depends on the order of the cuts. If they started by removing the edges then cut into strips by height or width, the chances are that the same cards would always be miscut since an error gets worse as the cuts progress.
If the first card is off center or oversize by 1/64, the next cut will be off center by 1/32nd since it starts already off by 1/64th and the next cut adds the same error. In reality the errors that begin at one end would be much less.
A more typical cutting sequence has the sheet being cut into blocks that are then cut progressively with the longer sides done last.

But there's plenty of eveidence that T206s weren't cut with a consistent pattern, or sometimes with much accuracy. Diamond cuts are far more likely if you're doing the narrow ends last. On a job as big as T206s the cutting would have been done by more than one guy, some of them more skilled than others.

The number of examples of the same card on each sheet I think is more than 4. It's at least 3.
Sheet layouts that are entirely unbalanced are also possible if not likely. So there might be several rows of say 4 over 4 and then maybe a row of 6-8 of a popular player or star.

Between the two name cards, the plate scratch, the registration layout marks, and a few other things I think it will eventually be possible to get very close to what a sheet might have looked like.

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

The number of examples of the same card on each sheet I think is more than 4. It's at least 3.

My numbers are 'per column', not sheet.

[steve B]

Unless they had multiple columns of the same player - which is possible of course- It works out the same.

In other words, if Spencer was only in one column, saying there are 3 Spencers in the column and 3 Spencers on the sheet is the same thing.

I think that number is actually at least 4, maybe as much as 6.

Steve B

[atx840]

Steve, it may be an indication that there were 6+ of each player stacked based on the ratio we see of double names vs two names. We may learn as you mentioned that some players had 4 stacked and others 6 or more, maybe multiple columns of the same player on one sheet. Fun stuff

If we could confirm the print press or sheet size it would be a good base to start with.

Jantz or Erick, is there a new Rossman or other example I need to add to list?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by atx840

Steve, it may be an indication that there were 6+ of each player stacked based on the ratio we see of double names vs two names. We may learn as you mentioned that some players had 4 stacked and others 6 or more, maybe multiple columns of the same player on one sheet. Fun stuff

If we could confirm the print press or sheet size it would be a good base to start with.

Jantz or Erick, is there a new Rossman or other example I need to add to list?

Exactly, which is what I was trying to get at with the comments about ratios we are seeing. Chris - thanks for bringing this point up again.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by atx840

Jantz or Erick, is there a new Rossman or other example I need to add to list?

I was wrong!!!! I simply assumed my Rossman-McBride was the one that had previously been identified, but alas, mine is a different one!

Does anyone know if the other Rossman-McBride is a Piedmont as well. Interesting that the Rossman-Thomas is a Sweet Cap.



http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...34&postcount=5

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by atx840

Jantz or Erick, is there a new Rossman or other example I need to add to list?

Not to my knowledge. I have the McBride... and want the Thomas.

[Jantz]

Chris - My total count to date of two-different name T206s is at 37.

Your grouping below is correct to my knowledge except we need to add Walsh/Lumley and Egan/Warhop to the grouping.

No new Rossman that I'm aware of.


Jantz

[Brian Weisner]

Here's another with two names.... Both from Cleveland....Piedmont 150







Be well Brian

[atx840]

Nice card Brian, looks like Stovall, I'll work on it.

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Chris,
Yes it is Stovall.... I will post another after dinner that is much tougher to guess...

Be well Brian

[Gradedcardman]

Jantz,

Is the Walsh/Lumley the only Lumley combo to show up to date ?

[Jantz]

Brian - Nice card! Thanks for posting it. Looking forward to seeing the other card you have to post.

Adam - So far the Walsh/Lumley is the only combination I've seen with Lumley's name on it.


Jantz

[Brian Weisner]

Here's another.... Pied 350 Herzog/.......? I'm 99% sure I know the other player, but would like to see what everyone else thinks...









Be well Brian

[t206hound]

Is this the first AB?

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by t206hound

Is this the first AB?

By my records, its the first AB Er!ck.


Jantz

[atx840]

I was thinking that as well, very nice to see a new brand....someone was slacking at the cutting station.

[wazoo]

This has always been one of my favorite Southern Leaguers. I heard that it unusual, or at least a little bit more rare to find a miscut Southern Leaguer. This is severe in my opinion.

[atx840]

Very nice Waz...you do not see those very often.

[wazoo]

Thanks Chris! I saw it and could not resist it. I later found out that the miscut only adds to it!

[Pat R]

This is not my card so it's the only scan I have, I don't know if it's
clear enough for some of you guy's who are really good at these. I am not sure but it looks like it could be another player other than crandall.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by deadballfreaK

Currently on Sterling Auctions Lot 31

Nice card, and you are the consigner right?

[deadballfreaK]

[t206hound]

Just picked up a new one at the Philly show: Griffith(portrait)-Chase

Scans available tonight. (Full disclosure... Looking to sell this bad boy)

[atx840]

And it's a beauty!

[AndyG09]

Originally Posted by atx840

And it's a beauty!

I second that, Chris. A great find, Erick!

Ag

[t206hound]

Here are the scans... I think it's more valuable as the first graded

[Craig M]

Nice!

My Hinchman double name arrived yesterday. It's a P150 #25.

Craig

[tedzan]

Although it's not a different names card, I thought this double (same) names Schulte card is worth posting here.






TED Z
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
LOOKING FOR these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set

AMES....CAMNITZ....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (port)....JORDAN (bat)....McGRAW (port-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off)....Wiltse (portrait-cap)

[Luke]

Originally Posted by t206hound

Here are the scans... I think it's more valuable as the first graded

Just noticed this one. My Griffith/Chase OM proves that the sheet placement for these two subjects didn't change when they printed different backs.

[Pat R]

A new one, Turner/O'Leary PD 350

[atx840]

Nice Craig, That's a strong one. Erick?

[wolf441]

Just picked this one up today, Jimmy Jackson and you can barely make out Hoffman, St. Louis, Amer. at the top. don't think I've seen this one identified on the thread yet...

[t206hound]

Very nice Steve... another piece of the puzzle.

[Jantz]

Good eye Steve!

Thanks for posting the Jackson card.


Jantz

[sb1]

Not sure if I posted these before, a few tougher backs for double names as well.

All are same name top and bottom(a couple just barely visible but made out under a loupe).

[atx840]

Nice Jantz. I'll get working on the sheet again.

[Jantz]

One more

Bulter with Raymond N.Y. Nat'l

Piedmont 350 f#25 back


Jantz

[t206hound]

Very nice, Jantz. Good eye!

[frankbmd]

Recently upgraded this card and noticed the top border. I'm not sure that the top name is Chase. Thought that it was worth posting for opinions.
Interestingly the card also shows a double factory mis-strike on the reverse.
Could it be a freak-freak?

Edited to add top-bottom approximation. I guess it is Chase on top. Oh well.

[wolf441]

Wanted to bring this thread back to the top to go along with the large factory # thread. I don't see any southern leaguers among the examples with two different names, which may support Scot's theory that there were 17 rows of the same player vertically (at least for the 34 subjects that can be found with Hindu backs).