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  #1  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:11 AM
sflayank sflayank is offline
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Default the list (of criminals) is revealed

the names of all consignors/dealers their shill bidders names and the injured party names have been revealed in court documents from mastro auctions 2007 and 2008
what everyone probably already knows or believes most of your big name dealers are revealed as the biggest consignors and every item they consigned they shilled
while many items were shilled by mastro auctions more items were actually shilled by many big name dealers having their wives partners friends bid up their items including many who appear on this board
the list also includes the buyer of the lot and how much the shill bidding cost him
gotta love the peoples right to open court documents
its a shame only 2 years worth are available or lawsuits would be flying out against almost every dealer
i can see other auction houses running to burn all their records

The LIST IS in POST 51


.

Last edited by Leon; 01-28-2016 at 12:22 PM. Reason: added list comment
  #2  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:14 AM
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WOW...not totally surprising...but definitely SHOCKING...can we see this list?
  #3  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
WOW...not totally surprising...but definitely SHOCKING...can we see this list?
Please
  #4  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:17 AM
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its a 272 page document 103 pages of which list all the auction items
one thing cool is you can see what some famous collectors bought and how much they got screwed by
  #5  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:18 AM
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please show us...link please?
  #6  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:21 AM
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I don't want to see who got screwed but I do want to see who screwed us over.
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:22 AM
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Larry, as others have already posted, how can we see this list. Can you post a link to the documents?

This should be interesting!!

Tony
  #8  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buythatcard View Post
I don't want to see who got screwed but I do want to see who screwed us over.
That's what I want to see!! Roll it out!
  #9  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:22 AM
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I have seen it and it ain't pretty. It's a virtual who's who of a lot of the hobby. I got shilled but already had an idea of that.

It is a 1mb pdf file. Whomever wants to see it send me an email.

The LIST is IN POST 51
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Last edited by Leon; 01-28-2016 at 12:24 PM.
  #10  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:31 AM
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in looking more thoroughly mastro probably appears on 2/3 of the lots listed and other dealers on the other 1/3
i dont know how to put this monster file on here
i have nothing against any of these people but here are some examples
irv lerner. every item he ever consigned bid on by jenifer stein
joe esposito every item bid on by his best bud caparelli
kent fedderman
ken goldin
mark irodenko
and on and on it goes same bidder on all their consignments
some names of bidders on this board are in the screwed column and how much they got screwed for
file:///C:/Users/sflayank/Downloads/doug%20allen%20(2).pdf

Last edited by sflayank; 01-28-2016 at 07:34 AM.
  #11  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:32 AM
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can't wait to hear how some of these guys try to talk their ways out of this?
  #12  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:34 AM
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pm request recanted.

will get my favor elsewhere.

Last edited by begsu1013; 01-28-2016 at 08:10 AM.
  #13  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:42 AM
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I know I not on either list unless on the gotten screwed list......I got a feeling a lot of the illegal shillers think a cycle is better than hitting 2 homers and 2 doubles..


Lets compile a NET54 list of shiller posters..

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 01-28-2016 at 07:49 AM.
  #14  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:42 AM
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Default screwed

looks like hal steinbrenner got screwed out of the most money in 2007 2008
but if youd like to know what he collects you can look
  #15  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:43 AM
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I have a feeling that this thread is going to be one of the most visited threads of all time.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:45 AM
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Wow I have a feeling my day is about to get a little sadder
  #17  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksabet View Post
Wow I have a feeling my day is about to get a little sadder
Better sad and enlightened !
  #18  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:56 AM
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I know I'm on the "got screwed" list and would love to see the list as well.
  #19  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:04 AM
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Yes, please share a link if possible.
  #20  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:11 AM
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well I just skimmed the document...and WOW...as I've been saying for years...the hobby is quite dirty.

Many, many major players named on this list...both shillers and victims.

I'm wondering if certain people's departures from the hobby are related to such activities/behavior...it has to be?

Poor Hank Steinbrenner appears to be one of the biggest victims!
  #21  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:13 AM
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please send all list requests to leon
thanks
  #22  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:13 AM
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quite.

Last edited by begsu1013; 01-28-2016 at 08:13 AM.
  #23  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:14 AM
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Got it from Leon..just went through it.

Now I need shower to remove this filth.

Sickening.
  #24  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
in looking more thoroughly mastro probably appears on 2/3 of the lots listed and other dealers on the other 1/3
i dont know how to put this monster file on here
i have nothing against any of these people but here are some examples
irv lerner. every item he ever consigned bid on by jenifer stein
joe esposito every item bid on by his best bud caparelli
kent fedderman
ken goldin
mark irodenko
and on and on it goes same bidder on all their consignments
some names of bidders on this board are in the screwed column and how much they got screwed for
file:///C:/Users/sflayank/Downloads/doug%20allen%20(2).pdf
I have not won an item from Goldin auctions, but was watching stuff in the current auction. Does anyone think that his name being on the list will have negative results this weekend?
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:16 AM
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id love to hear from good old hal lewis!!!!
  #26  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:30 AM
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who is "historical collectibles?"
  #27  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:55 AM
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Is Probstein123 on the list?
Or does this cover auction houses?
  #28  
Old 01-28-2016, 09:12 AM
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From what I gleamed from Larry's post to begin this thread -- this only covers Mastro's auctions over a limited period of time.

This does not include EBay (The Probstein q) or any other auction house past or present.

Rich
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  #29  
Old 01-28-2016, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Klein View Post
From what I gleamed from Larry's post to begin this thread -- this only covers Mastro's auctions over a limited period of time.

This does not include EBay (The Probstein q) or any other auction house past or present.

Rich
correct
  #30  
Old 01-28-2016, 09:48 AM
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only auctions from 2007-2009?? You don't think this happened long before and long after? In my mind, this list is very incomplete.

Also, do you think that all consignors that were identified knew that their consignments were being shilled? Some obviously knew, but I see a few folks on the list that appeared only a few times that may have had their lots shilled unknowingly (due to max bids by winning bidder, etc.). Is this possible?

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.
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  #31  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.
names!!??!!
  #32  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
only auctions from 2007-2009?? You don't think this happened long before and long after? In my mind, this list is very incomplete.

Also, do you think that all consignors that were identified knew that their consignments were being shilled? Some obviously knew, but I see a few folks on the list that appeared only a few times that may have had their lots shilled unknowingly (due to max bids by winning bidder, etc.). Is this possible?

As someone mentioned, Ken Goldin is on the list as well as a few Net54 members.
Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.
  #33  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xplainer View Post
Is Probstein123 on the list?
Or does this cover auction houses?
Probstein123............. How about PWCC?
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:12 AM
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did u not read previous replies...this does not include ebay.
  #35  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
did u not read previous replies...this does not include ebay.
I was replying to Jimmy.... Sorry your Majesty.
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429/524 Off of the monster 81%
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22/39 Unique Backs 56%
80/86 Minors 93%
25/48 Southern Leaguers 52%
6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60%

237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW

Excel spreadsheets only $5
T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!!

Checklists sold (20)

T205 8/208 3.8%
  #36  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:19 AM
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I got you Josh.
  #37  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:34 AM
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It appears that some of the consignors who knowingly shilled their own auctions were actually shilled as buyers in other auction lots. If this is the case, there is a certain amount of irony as well as stupidity on their part.

Just my 2, but I wasn't surprised at the names of the biggest offenders.

The list also highlights how easy it is to be shilled in an online auction.

Jeff
  #38  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:47 AM
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Would love to hear from some that appear on the list.
  #39  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
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Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions???
+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:51 AM
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Isn't it possible for a consignor to be shilled unknowingly? If the auction house gets a percentage it's in their interest to raise all sale prices.
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  #41  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepony View Post
Huh?? Who shills other people's auctions??? Apparently this list is of persons who's lots were shilled, not by Mastro , but by the consignors or their conspirators. There is no one " unknowingly" being shilled. I hope the dominos fall fast and hard.
Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.
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1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 113/180 (62.8%)
  #42  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:54 AM
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Can someone please share the list?
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  #43  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:03 AM
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Pretty eye opening, saw my name as a winning bidder. Surprising just how wide-spread it all was, how did they think nobody would find out when done at this level? Disturbing to say the least.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
Mastro and his cronies were shilling all sorts of items (just look at the list if you haven't already). Again, perhaps there was a max-bid left by the eventual winner and Mastro helped bump the item up to that price. Remember, he's getting 15-20% of the hammer price. So yes, it is plausible that an auction was shilled without the consignor knowing. But perhaps I'm too naive.
Read OP. It reports lots shilled by consignors , NOT the auction house itself.
  #45  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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How would someone shilling for a friend (or themselves) know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob

Last edited by trobba; 01-28-2016 at 11:10 AM.
  #46  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobba View Post
How would someone shilling for a friend know how high to go without purchasing the item?

I get how Mastro could be "protected" in their shill bidding because they could conceivably use someone's max bid against them.

How would I know if a $10,000 item was shilled up to $15,000 that someone would bid one more than me? Wouldn't there be ample times when I would get stuck, as the shill bidder, with the item?

Or were most shill bids up to a reasonable price and not way above market prices?

Rob
There were many instances on this list where a name that was listed as the "winning bidder" was also listed as the "shill bidder" for the same item.
  #47  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf441 View Post
+1. Isn't that simply called "bidding"?
I think shilling other peoples' auctions happens more than you think, though it is hidden under the guise of "Protecting one's investment".

Say you pay $5k for a card today, then next week another one in the same grade comes up for auction. Nearing the end of the auction it looks like it's going to sell for $3500, so you bid it up with no intention of winning it to give the illusion of it maintaining the market value that you set for it with your $5k purchase.
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  #48  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:33 AM
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Dave and Steve Forman sure do appear a lot as both consignors and shill bidders.

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  #49  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:35 AM
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i see peter S was shilled for a substantial sum on the list. I kinda remember him being reluctant to write a letter to the judge?
  #50  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:39 AM
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Just saw the list and it was disturbing. Was shocked (not really) to see that someone shilled me. You hear about it all the time but when you see the actual proof, it makes you sick.

I don't know many of the names but will hope to find out whether any of these consignors or shillers are associated with any active Auction House today. It will be a perfect time to remove them from my list of AH's that I bid on.

This list is only a drop in the bucket.

Who can you trust in this world?
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