Will a Colorado Rockie EVER be Elected to the Hall of Fame?

[bravos4evr]

still, top 10 CF'er all time, one of the 3 or 4 best defenders of all time at any position. that has to mean something.

Koufax left early......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

still, top 10 CF'er all time, one of the 3 or 4 best defenders of all time at any position. that has to mean something.

Koufax left early......

Yeah, he did, as did Jim Brown, but they left on top as legends. Andruw left with five horrible seasons including two under .200. We'll see, time will tell I guess.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, he did, as did Jim Brown, but they left on top as legends. Andruw left with five horrible seasons including two under .200. We'll see, time will tell I guess.

see Steve Carlton?

[nat]

Schendienst being in is as much about his post-playing career as it was what he did while he was on the field.

[steve B]

Defensive stats are to me generally nonsense for outfielders. For infielders, they're a bit better because there are fewer missed events because of the nature of the game.

For outfielders, there are a lot more of what I called missed events above. Those are the things that don't happen because a player is better defensively, and that non-happening doesn't generate a stat.
The clearest example is a runner either not running, or not taking an extra base. That's more common in smaller parks, but is especially common with players who throw well. Like Dwight Evans or Ichiro.

I don't think they take the park into account much either. Sure, it's generally not an issue for guys that played in the 70's average sized symmetrical parks, but even good fielders have occasionally looked foolish in Fenway.

Steve B

[packs]

In a general sense I think that can be true but anyone who watched Andruw Jones play knows he was the best defensive center fielder of his time, and maybe even all time. I don't think generalities apply to a player like him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

see Steve Carlton?

Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?

[clydepepper]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1683766]Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?[/QUOTE]


Not at all. Just tossing out a general comparison about declining years of any career can leave a lasting impression and still wishing that Carlton had heard the voices of reason a little earlier...it was so ugly. My own career ended much the same way, not that anyone noticed...it was a miserable thing to experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?

He didn't "fall apart" he posted wRC+ of 96, 121,132 and 89 over his last 4 seasons. as 100 is avg, his last 4 seasons he was still 10% above avg hitter.

This is why using the traditional stats can be so misleading as they don't give a very deep portrait of production.

you want to talk garbage, look at Pete Rose's last 7 years, I think his total fWAR for those years is under 1

ETA: it was 1.2 total over last 7 years

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Cobb had had 5000 hits Rose would probably still be playing today trying to catch him. Yeah, he clearly hung on too long but I guess with the special circumstances it's understandable.

I just hope ARod once J Lo dumps him or vice versa doesn't decide he still has it in him to catch Bonds.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If Cobb had had 5000 hits Rose would probably still be playing today trying to catch him. Yeah, he clearly hung on too long but I guess with the special circumstances it's understandable.


Clearly...do you see this coming down main street?...he was going against the odds.

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I just hope ARod once J Lo dumps him or vice versa doesn't decide he still has it in him to catch Bonds.

Now, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen...

Then bonds could come back and have a heart attack trying to regain what he thought he had...couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

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