My impromptu chat with Joe O.

[TONY-III]

I have a question...Can anyone name someone or some company who has done more for this hobby than Joe Orlando and PSA? From what I've seen Joe and PSA have done more positive things for this hobby than anyone on this forum can say they have, even after deducting every bitch and complaint that seems to flow so easily through everyone's keyboards onto my screen - whether they are legitimate bitches or not - deduct them all and you still get a more positive than negative impact.

[calvindog]

Yes, Bill Mastro.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yes, Bill Mastro.

Not Dave Forman?

[blades3]

I've known Joe for more than a decade now and he's always been very honest and extremely passionate about the hobby. He's not scared or shy about pointing it out when he doesn't agree with something, but that's the way it should be. He runs a company that has a massive bullseye on its chest at all times, whether it's grading or authentication, few are ever completely satisfied with the results so it's not his job to be everyone's friend. I've gotten to know quite a few of the key people at PSA through the years and whether its Joe, Roy, Steve, Zach or others, I've been nothing but impressed on each occasion dealing with them.

Steve Bloedow
Collect Auctions

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not Dave Forman?

No, because Bill gave something to the hobby ($$) in that lawsuit and Dave didn't.

[wrapperguy]

If memory serves, didn't Joe have a huge collection, had it graded by his own company and then sold the cards at auction for a huge sum? I believe some of the cards were the highest graded at that time. If I recall, for a short time, PSA was in the business of or was thinking of expanding their business to auction their own cards. As I remember, there was much discussion of the obvious conflict of interest. Does this ring a bell with anyone else? If not, I am losing my mind.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by wrapperguy

If memory serves, didn't Joe have a huge collection, had it graded by his own company and then sold the cards at auction for a huge sum? I believe some of the cards were the highest graded at that time. If I recall, for a short time, PSA was in the business of or was thinking of expanding their business to auction their own cards. As I remember, there was much discussion of the obvious conflict of interest. Does this ring a bell with anyone else? If not, I am losing my mind.

I seem to remember hearing stuff like that, yep.

Tabe

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by wrapperguy

If memory serves, didn't Joe have a huge collection, had it graded by his own company and then sold the cards at auction for a huge sum? I believe some of the cards were the highest graded at that time. If I recall, for a short time, PSA was in the business of or was thinking of expanding their business to auction their own cards. As I remember, there was much discussion of the obvious conflict of interest. Does this ring a bell with anyone else? If not, I am losing my mind.

I believe you are referring to David Hall the president of Collectors Universe and founder of PSA. He even had his cards in the PSA registry as I recall. And yes, CU did have a sports card auction branch called Superior Auctions.

David Hall is still with CU, mainly in the coin-branch of the company, but now has his own coin company specializing in CU-graded high dollar coins. I believe it's called David Hall Rare Coins. Old habits die hard.

[autograf]

Went to the PSA registry dinner on Friday and David Hall was one of the speakers as was Joe Orlando. It was the registry awards and David Hall was inducted into the PSA Hall of Fame for his previous collection. I also subsequently saw him at Memory Lane buying or selling cards as well. I would think he is also involved in the hobby as he stated he was working on T206's--primarily the tougher backs. At least that was his quote in the registry dinner.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by TONY-III

I have a question...Can anyone name someone or some company who has done more for this hobby than Joe Orlando and PSA? From what I've seen Joe and PSA have done more positive things for this hobby than anyone on this forum can say they have, even after deducting every bitch and complaint that seems to flow so easily through everyone's keyboards onto my screen - whether they are legitimate bitches or not - deduct them all and you still get a more positive than negative impact.

I think Joe loves the hobby and has done a ton for it. You asked a question so I will give an honest, non sarcastic, personal opinion answer-

Jefferson Burdick

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[TONY-III]

Jefferson Burdick - A very fine example indeed.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I love all these threads about meeting the people with past histories that are stained on how nice they are and what a great person they are. What do you expect? them telling you to stick it and move on, heck your just another potential mark. What makes you think they are going to change or treat you different all they want is your money, bottom line and =they don't care how they get it or who gets hurt.

Keep spreading the love until it actually touches you and find there is no love in these people.

Lee

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by TONY-III

I have a question...Can anyone name someone or some company who has done more for this hobby than Joe Orlando and PSA? ......

Sy Berger and Topps, Mickey Mantle and a myriad of other MLB players for starters.

Also, I know many hobby purists / long-time collectors would also argue that third party grading has done more damage to the hobby than anything else since it has turned this hobby into, well, I guess I'm going to have to use that dreadful word: "industry". And if TPG has done the most damage, who do you put on the top of that list?

[T206Collector]

Has Joe O contributed a lot to the hobby? Sure.

Is he one helluva guy? Seems so.

Does PSA know how to consistently grade pre-war cards? Not on your life.

I dislike PSA for the only reason that matters to me as a collector.

[campyfan39]

Agree 100%.
Grading sucks

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Sy Berger and Topps, Mickey Mantle and a myriad of other MLB players for starters.

Also, I know many hobby purists / long-time collectors would also argue that third party grading has done more damage to the hobby than anything else since it has turned this hobby into, well, I guess I'm going to have to use that dreadful word: "industry". And if TPG has done the most damage, who do you put on the top of that list?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Agree 100%.
Grading sucks

Until you buy a 25k card, like I did, didn't notice a tiny bit of touched up color, and returned the card for a full refund after the graders caught it....then, grading doesn't suck so much.

Unless of course you are the seller...then it might suck. Just some random thoughts that I have experienced....and it was with a Boston Garter...

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Until you buy a 25k card, like I did, didn't notice a tiny bit of touched up color, and returned the card for a full refund after the graders caught it....then, grading doesn't suck so much.

Unless of course you are the seller...then it might suck. Just some random thoughts that I have experienced....and it was with a Boston Garter...

Well, who's fault is that? You paid 25k for an old piece of cardboard? You know better than that, Leon...don't you?

[alanu]

I'm glad I don't know any of the PSA or SGC people personally. I just send my cards in and hope for the best grades possible. I know what to expect from both companies and usually get great customer service from both.

[ullmandds]

I'm with Alan on this one...I have seen mistakes made by both psa and sgc...exponentially more by psa...but that is likely in part due to their much larger volume.

I recently crossed a card SGC graded A to PSA(my 1st experience with PSA at the national) and my card received a deserved 10...in this case PSA got it right.

My experience with PSA at the national was much more professional and organized than with SGC...who had a pretty small setup with 1 guy helping w/submissions and another in the background.

3rd party graders are what they are...and in this day and age are necessary for the good of the hobby.

I guess ultimately it's like going to another doctor for a second opinion. That's all it is...another "opinion"...just like grading!

And regarding PSA's dubious past behavior on many counts...the biggest fish in the pond tends to take liberties, break the rules, act unconscionably at times...all in the name of the all mighty dollar!

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by TONY-III

I have a question...Can anyone name someone or some company who has done more for this hobby than Joe Orlando and PSA? From what I've seen Joe and PSA have done more positive things for this hobby than anyone on this forum can say they have, even after deducting every bitch and complaint that seems to flow so easily through everyone's keyboards onto my screen - whether they are legitimate bitches or not - deduct them all and you still get a more positive than negative impact.

+1. Like Leon, I favor the measure of protection companies like PSA and SGC offer. I remember during the early '90's, when grading companies were just getting started in cards after gaining quite a foothold in coins a few years earlier, when there were a lot more raw cards which appeared to be of high grade, out there to be gone through. A little experience with one particular local dealer, that dealer's penchant for altering cards, and PSA's feedback taught me to take along a 16X loupe to check the edges and other elements of a card a lot more closely. Those were the days when you could find and buy a raw NMT-MT '55 Gil Hodges for less than $150, get it graded as an "8," and turn around and sell it for $300 or so, if that was your heart's desire. Now, with a much higher percentage of the cards I'm seeking having been graded, the loupe has been a far less essential piece of equipment for shows. Everyone knows the grading companies aren't perfect, and we know darn well that we aren't either! But make no mistake, they have had made it far more difficult for the would-be scammers to steal your $$$ in this hobby! And yes, Jeff L. also makes an outstanding contribution, adding balance to the equation, with his outspoken nature and insight. The more informed you are, the better decisions you'll usually make, emotions aside.

As always, an interesting debate!

Larry