Scanning cards for auction

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Have you ever gone to a card show, ask a dealer to see a card that
interested you for possible purchase and only look at the front of the
card? Then actually purchase that card and still not turn the card over
to view the back. Even if the card has a blank back you must see what
the back looks like. Checking the corners of the card from the back of the card
is very revealing to the true condition. I have never witnessed
anyone that bought a card in person, worth more than $.10, that has not
examined it on both sides and usually rotated it in the light at all angles
before buying it.
Many online auctions sellers offer cards with only a scan of the front
of the card. The back of a card is a part of the grade of a card as it
should be. Why shouldn't the online buyer have the opportunity to see
exactly was he/she is buying? Spending your money and being denied
the opportunity to see the total card is outrageous. Even graded cards should
have scans of both sides. Most of us buy the card that is in the holder and use
the printed grade as a reference.
Personally I have never offered a card without showing both sides of it and
a scan of at least 100% of its' size. Leon recently won a couple of Allen &
Ginter tickets I offered. I showed both sides of each ticket at 200% of
their size. Buyers want to see as much of the item as they can - just
as if they were seeing it in person. This will reveal any defects and
avoid any misconceptions about the item. Happy collectors will preserve the
hobby and make it more fun.
Conversely, sellers reluctant to follow this common sense
practice are suspect. In a self-serving way, a seller that is
not a profession grader may overlook some defects that would
reveal the true condition of the item to the buyer. The seller would then
benefit and be unjustly rewarded with excessive enrichment.
It also could be a built-in excuse for refusing a refund for an unhappy buyer.

Many examples of the lack of back scans can be found on ebay. (edited to eliminate the reference to old auctions)

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Posted By: leon

In the few auctions I run, if the card is of any real value, or if there is ANY issue with the back, I always show a large scan of it. I ALWAYS show large scans of the back, even if it is blank, on any high end card. As an avid back collector it amazes me when people don't do this. If the back is not either generic, or blank, some people don't even mention what ad it has. So there could be common T20x's. or T21x's out there with rare backs and they go unnoticed. On the other hand if it is a $10-$15 blank backed W card I might not show it if there are no issues with it.....SO bottom line folks, if you are selling cards show the backs....please......regards all

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Posted By: jay behrens

Part of the reason you don't see people posting back scans in thier auction is becuase of picture hosting limitations. I host my own pictures, but becuase of my website, I have space limitions also. But I do make scans and clearly state in my auctions that if you want a back scan, I will be happy to email it to you.

Jay

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Posted By: julie

the back's the most important part! That's where all the wood glue comes from...

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Posted By: TBob

You took the words right out of my mouth as I was getting ready to post an identical post based on the Sporting Life Tinker I received in the mail Friday. Great front but only a front scan. The brief language in the ad made me feel comfortable that the back was fine. Instead, there was a number in ink in the top margin on the back. I am old enough to know that I should have asked about the back but you fall in to a false sense of security sometimes when you see a card reasonably priced that you really want and there is no caveat about the back. I emailed the seller, isellmore4u@yahoo.com, and advised him of the problem but have not heard anything yet. I politely stated that I am sure he accidentally missed this and would he consider a discount as I'd like to keep the card. I have had similiar problems with small amount of back damage where only a front scan is shown from other sellers, some power sellers who should know better.

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

If you read my post and checked out the auctions in the links of the T3s without a scan of the backs or any mention of the condition of the back is PURPOSEFUL.
That is the scheme. Showing two views costs no more but loses seller's advantage of hiding any damage, markings etc. on the back of card that would not escape the buyer at a card show.
Once the transaction is over, it's over. You lose.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I for one try to put into one scan the front and back. This saves me .15 on each auction since I only use ebays picture service and will on occasion use the supersize. I also believe in showing both the front and back but have got lazy on occasion with graded cards but have described the backs. I have yet to have a card returned or even questioned, which certainly saves alot of hassles.
I am currently trying to deal with a seller that did not have a back scan and the back turned out to have a circle of paper loss plus a indenation that turned out to be a double tear. I probably should have asked about the back, but get lazy every now and then. Even with the scan you can't tell every thing you just have to put faith in the seller.

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Lee Behrens' last sentence "Even with the scan you can't tell every
thing you just have to put faith in the seller."
How true.
This is in essence how the scam seller has the advantage. The scan is
never a perfect copy and to make it an even more difficult to see any
defects or discolorations on the card the picture is made as small as
possible without being too obvious.
The
cost of another image is minimal.
In lower grade T3 cards it has been my experience that
the backs are seldom clean. Most have staining and/or flaws to some
degree.
Most T3s have a checklist printed on the back of the card that is an
essential part of the value of the card.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I generally mention it and offer additional scans and information if someone is interested. Never had a return yet.

On the buying end, however, things have not been so sanguine. I recently had to return a very rare card (T224 Fitzsimmons) that I really wanted and that I got for a decent price at auction because of back writing. The dealer (who has been in the game for decades) then gave me the lame excuse that he doesn't really know how to grade cards. Needless to say, his current email auction notices are assigned to AOL's spamblocker whenever they come in.

I find that when a mistake is made with the back, a seller will frequently agree to give you some cash back. Scott Gaynor is one with whom I had that sort of positive experience. He missed a small crease on the back of an N174 Tug Wilson Gypsy Queen boxing card and we worked out a partial refund to cover it, since I wanted to keep the card.

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Posted By: Brian Daniels

"MarkieCards" or possibly " McCraesMyBoy" ??? what is it?

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Posted By: TedKazoo

While new to this venue, I am not new to selling several thousand cards on ebay. I disagree that no scan is a scam. I have never had a negative feedback and only rarely provide a back scan. High dollar auctions are an exception, but not the run of the mill card. I always invite customers to ask for more scans, front or back, and provide them quickly. I also note when the back has an issue.

In the end, it is a matter of knowing your seller. My return policy is simple. You don't like it, send it back. No reason necessary. End of policy.

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Posted By: Nick

As a buyer, I look for latin player cards from the 50's and 60's and I buy T-cards based on their backs. Many sellers don't know the difference a back can make in value. The Black backs and Grey back of the 50's are overlooked by most and are often times not mentioned. I also look for certain factory numbers on t-cards. Most sellers of T206 cards will only list what type of back it is(for example "card has common piedmont back"). But what about the rare piedmont factory #42 NC back that is very valuable? I feel t-cards should always have a picure of atleast a detailed description of the back.

From a sellers perspective. If I am selling a card that is valued below $20 that has no back variations and or damage; I do not feel it is worth it to take the time to post a picture of the back. I always give a detailed desciption of the back regardless of the value.

Nick

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Unfortunately the links to the Ebay auction pages I used to illustrate my argument about showing full size images of both sides of a card was edited out of my post.

Those Ebay auction pages show only a front view of an undersized scan of T3 cards that are in the $200 each value range. The front view of the cards showed staining yet the seller stated that the backs were "clean". Unlikely. This is a seller that has an unstated, no return policy.

All the replies posted on this thread are rational courses of action for this type problem.


Years ago I wrote computer shareware programs for Ziff-Davis Publishing Co. that appeared on electronic bulletin boards. These programs were transferred to Cnet on the internet when it commenced in the mid-1990s.
Dealing with the many honest intelligent people through this media has always been a pleasure for me. However, due to the ease of use, impersonal and remote aspect of this media there are other individuals, in an absence of conscience that must find it an irresistibly tempting way to defraud.


Elliot