Ruth can do the impossible!

[Nyygameused]

Looking for ruth items I came across these two items, the first appeared to be a vintage cut with a piece of tape over the signature. Nothing seemed odd as the tape and paper looked old enough

[Nyygameused]

But then this!!!!!! Anyone care to chime in on what's going on here?

[Lordstan]

Someone got a good scan of the original. Printed on old paper and put tape over it to hide the fact that it's new.
Scammers and thieves are creative when trying separate people from their money.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Someone got a good scan of the original. Printed on old paper and put tape over it to hide the fact that it's new.
Scammers and thieves are creative when trying separate people from their money.

So is the card the original? They appear indistinguishable biased on the sigs alone I'd be very scared if someone found identical paper to the card

[ATP]

Fwiw, the first photo, is on the same goofy looking darker brown paper that I see fake cuts on all the time. My guess is that is the copy, obviously.

[Lordstan]

As someone who has fair non-professional photoshop skills, I can say that I think it would be much easier to erase a white background and print the resulting sig image cleanly on a dark background paper. Erasing the dark background and then printing the resulting sig image on a white background would be pretty hard to do without at least a little brownish artifact.

[Runscott]

Mark - I think you passed the test.

It's also unlikely that PSA would authenticate a photocopy.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Mark - I think you passed the test.

It's also unlikely that PSA would authenticate a photocopy.

They have before.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

They have before.

Cobb cut that was a laser print was authenticated.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jad22

Cobb cut that was a laser print was authenticated.

Yes, I remember that one, but I have to think they learned from it. Possibly thanks to this forum.

[shelly]

The only thing PSA learned from this forum is how little respect we have for them

[Nyygameused]

Found another one, if anything guys be aware this signature reproduction is out there

[Runscott]

Why don't you tell us where you are finding these, as none of the rest of us are seeing them. Same for the penciled Ruth autograph. You seem to have access to a lot of questionable Ruth stuff - where are you getting it?

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Why don't you tell us where you are finding these, as none of the rest of us are seeing them. Same for the penciled Ruth autograph. You seem to have access to a lot of questionable Ruth stuff - where are you getting it?

Scott, here is another guy who just signed up and does not even have a name. I think he might be testing the market place.

[Lordstan]

This is getting a little stupid.
Some idiot is just taking a signature and attempting to paste it on old paper. It is the exact same signature. Anyone who would fall for this is a moron.
Being a new member, perhaps the OP should introduce him/herself to everyone, because pretty soon people are going to start thinking that they're the one doing it at home and then showing to us to see if we approve.

[Runscott]

Shelly - I'm not quite as cynical as you...yet. Perhaps we're just hearing a really good duck impersonation.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

This is getting a little stupid.
Some idiot is just taking a signature and attempting to paste it on old paper. It is the exact same signature. Anyone who would fall for this is a moron.
Being a new member, perhaps the OP should introduce him/herself to everyone, because pretty soon people are going to start thinking that they're the one doing it at home and then showing to us to see if we approve.

Yes, but there are plenty of morons buying such stuff. If a forgery dealer could work his way into the 'almost a moron' group of buyers by learning more from members here, I'm sure he would do so. As you say, the OP just needs to do what everyone else here does: introduce himself, understanding how this might look to us, given that his approach so far has been almost identical to what the scammers here have tried. Not saying it's quacking exactly like a duck...

It's appropriate that you mention "introducing". Once I see a person's name posted, I feel more comfortable about them. Months-years of interaction add to that. Then when I see their picture the comfort level rises a little more. And finally we meet each other, and they could probably be crooked as hell, but I'd trust them much more than someone who is brand new on the internet, invisible and anonymous. It's just the way it works.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, but there are plenty of morons buying such stuff. If a forgery dealer could work his way into the 'almost a moron' group of buyers by learning more from members here, I'm sure he would do so. As you say, the OP just needs to do what everyone else here does: introduce himself, understanding how this might look to us, given that his approach so far has been almost identical to what the scammers here have tried. Not saying it's quacking exactly like a duck...

It's appropriate that you mention "introducing". Once I see a person's name posted, I feel more comfortable about them. Months-years of interaction add to that. Then when I see their picture the comfort level rises a little more. And finally we meet each other, and they could probably be crooked as hell, but I'd trust them much more than someone who is brand new on the internet, invisible and anonymous. It's just the way it works.

Agreed.

[Nyygameused]

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Wow really guys? Please look up who yankees506 is on gameuseduniverse. That's me, my name is carmelo by the way. Is this how you guys treat everyone who first joins? I don't know how there are any members if so. I'm just looking to pass/gain info and get snobby and cynical replies like I'm some kind of scammer. Geesh for complete disclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171379608949...84.m1423.l2649

And no I'm not the seller of either items, I was just looking and doing my research as I've stated before I am just getting into this retro stuff. Long winded post are not my thing but come on guys. Take a step back, you don't have everyone "figured" out and not everything is a "gotcha" moment.

Here is where I found the card

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...kaged-product/

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

[shelly]

Sorry, key must have stuck.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by shelly

Yes is the answer if you dont put your name up there and ask a million questions.

Dude I have 18 post and I'm asking a million questions? Mind you this thread was me letting you guys know about an authentic sig that has been copied and looks real. silly man silly

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Runscott

the OP just needs to do what everyone else here does: introduce himself, understanding how this might look to us

I guess the relevant part of my post didn't seem relevant enough

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Dude I have 18 post and I'm asking a million questions? Mind you this thread was me letting you guys know about an authentic sig that has been copied and looks real. silly man silly

You still dont have your name up there and we might be silly man silly but just do the right thing and there are no problems.
Thanks for showing us that Ruth

[Lordstan]

Carmelo,
It may seem to be overkill, but, unfortunately, we do get a seemingly increasing number of people who's initial posts are asking about authenticity of big name autographs. Considering the amount of fraud in the hobby, it is natural for anyone to be suspicious. As you stated, you're just getting into this retro stuff. Please take it from those of us who have been in it for a while, that there is a real reason to be skeptical. It's not personal, we are suspicious because scammers are everywhere. Perhaps everything isn't a gotcha moment, but we have seen our fair share of them, so perhaps we are bit jaded. It isn't silly, just prudent.
If you stay, you will see that, as a whole, we are a very knowledgeable bunch who will go out of our way to help other collectors.
Mark

[Cfern023]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Carmelo,
It may seem to be overkill, but, unfortunately, we do get a seemingly increasing number of people who's initial posts are asking about authenticity of big name autographs. Considering the amount of fraud in the hobby, it is natural for anyone to be suspicious. As you stated, you're just getting into this retro stuff. Please take it from those of us who have been in it for a while, that there is a real reason to be skeptical. It's not personal, we are suspicious because scammers are everywhere. Perhaps everything isn't a gotcha moment, but we have seen our fair share of them, so perhaps we are bit jaded. It isn't silly, just prudent.
If you stay, you will see that, as a whole, we are a very knowledgeable bunch who will go out of our way to help other collectors.
Mark

m
This, all of this. While I'm not the most seasoned collector - and I won't go into vintage stuff much if at all in my life time- this forum is a great resource to learn. Unfortunately- there are some that look to hone their illegitimate craft as much as those who just want to learn.

I'll lend a hand when I can on modern stuff- but this forum is easily one of the most friendly and fun boards I've been on.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Carmelo,
It may seem to be overkill, but, unfortunately, we do get a seemingly increasing number of people who's initial posts are asking about authenticity of big name autographs. Considering the amount of fraud in the hobby, it is natural for anyone to be suspicious. As you stated, you're just getting into this retro stuff. Please take it from those of us who have been in it for a while, that there is a real reason to be skeptical. It's not personal, we are suspicious because scammers are everywhere. Perhaps everything isn't a gotcha moment, but we have seen our fair share of them, so perhaps we are bit jaded. It isn't silly, just prudent.
If you stay, you will see that, as a whole, we are a very knowledgeable bunch who will go out of our way to help other collectors.
Mark

An intelligent and well thought reply like this is what I've expected. I thank you mark, to the others, from a well respected modern day game used memorabilia collector, I've been let down.

[Runscott]

edited - I'm not buying any of this. Way too much protesting.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

An intelligent and well thought reply like this is what I've expected. I thank you mark, to the others, from a well respected modern day game used memorabilia collector, I've been let down.

That is a bull shit. How does anyone that has no idea who you are let you down.
Please tell me who the hell you are, to insult people that have only tried to help everyone on this site modern and old. Who the hell respects you?

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by shelly

That is a bull shit. How does anyone that has no idea who you are let you down.
Please tell me who the hell you are, to insult people that have only tried to help everyone on this site modern and old. Who the hell respects you?

My man, again I have been on gameuseduniverse for five years, my name is yankees506 on that forum. A member since early 2010, a robinson cano collector and yankees modern day memorabilia collector.

Here is a thread I started on that forum, these are "who the hell respects me"

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=42632

This is who the f*ck I am. Lord have mercy. Do I need to bump this thread on guu and everything to prove my credibility? Some of you guys on this forum need to take your heads out of the sand.

[Lordstan]

A couple things.
Carmelo,
None of us here know you, so how could we possibly judge you or your reputation as being either good or bad. All we have is what has happened in this thread. People here usually are annoyed by people who don't identify themselves, by posting their name or information about themselves. Suppose some stranger just walks up to you asks for your opinion about something. Wouldn't you think it's more reasonable for that person to walk up hand outstretched saying, "Hi. I am Mark. I heard your really good at bats, could you give me your opinion?" Why wouldn't it be the same here? You're asking people's opinions without so much as a Hi. How do you expect us to know you're on another board and your level of expertise or experience? Fortunately and unfortunately that internet allows people to hide behind anonymity. If you don't identify yourself, skeptical people like us will assume the worst. If you had identified yourself, perhaps the response would have been different.

Also, the one he initially posted sold for $2300. I sent an email to the seller and reported it to eBay. If anyone has any pull with eBay, perhaps they can report it as well.

http://item.ebay.ca/itm/BABE-RUTH-AU...item3f38260e6e

[JT]

NY....

Simple rule on this forum.....put your name under your handle, or Leon will do it for you.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

My man, again I have been on gameuseduniverse for five years, my name is yankees506 on that forum. A member since early 2010, a robinson cano collector and yankees modern day memorabilia collector.

Here is a thread I started on that forum, these are "who the hell respects me"

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=42632

This is who the f*ck I am. Lord have mercy. Do I need to bump this thread on guu and everything to prove my credibility? Some of you guys on this forum need to take your heads out of the sand.

One thing you will never be is my man. If you dont like the sand box get the hell out. My Man.
Last but not least my man. Why did you not say who the hell you where before you came on. I would like to know what auction house's use your great knowledge?
Wow a member of a site that means zip to me. You must be the most respected person I have never heard of.

[Runscott]

GUU? Now that is really funny. I posted over there maybe 5-10 times and got almost ZERO response to any of my questions. A couple of guys did respond, and a couple also took snipes at me because I accidentally made a mistake or two. Do you think I responded by telling them how famous I was on Net54 (not that I am) as an excuse for behaving in a manner that they considered odd or inappropriate?

If my head was in the sand we'd be bumping noses ('sand' being a euphemism for something a bit more odiferous).

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by shelly

One thing you will never be is my man. If you dont like the sand box get the hell out. My Man.
Last but not least my man. Why did you not say who the hell you where before you came on. I would like to know what auction house's use your great knowledge? How many auction houses use you to cert there items?
Wow a member of a site that means zip to me. You must be the most respected person I have never heard of.

I'm not going to go on a personal attack "my man". However before you go ahead and assume you know who any of us (new to THIS forum are) please use a bit more brain power. As I never said "is this auto good" (on this thread) I was passing along info on a replicated auto. Your right however, I plan to stay on this forum and this is one "man" you have left a bad taste in the mouth of. FYI up here in nyc "my man" is a term of endearment, never again with you "my man".

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by shelly

Wow a member of a site that means zip to me. You must be the most respected person I have never heard of.

I joined that site in 2007 to respond to a post by a friend. I never needed it again until last year when I needed help regarding a modern game-used item. I totally forgot that I had ever been there, and re-registered in February, this year. My questions were largely ignored, my comments not responded to, and after 24 posts I gave up and forgot about them again, until now.

There is some good information there, but it's mostly the famous guys responding to the famous guys, so it makes sense that NY guy, being famous and all, is quite happy. Maybe I should have told them that I was famous at Net54? (or infamous).

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Runscott

GUU? Now that is really funny. I posted over there maybe 5-10 times and got almost ZERO response to any of my questions. A couple of guys did respond, and a couple also took snipes at me because I accidentally made a mistake or two. Do you think I responded by telling them how famous I was on Net54 (not that I am) as an excuse for behaving in a manner that they considered odd or inappropriate?

If my head was in the sand we'd be bumping noses ('sand' being a euphemism for something a bit more odiferous).

Since you guys seem to want to sling mud at anyone and everyone you guys perceive as a scammer, how else does one prove he's up to par with you guys? I never claimed to be "famous" guy so I don't know where that is coming from. I'm glad I didn't have to post what I really wanted to post instead of sand for you to get it. Great job great Scott

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Since you guys seem to want to sling mud at anyone and everyone you guys perceive as a scammer, how else does one prove he's up to par with you guys? I never claimed to be "famous" guy so I don't know where that is coming from. I'm glad I didn't have to post what I really wanted to post instead of sand for you to get it. Great job great Scott

Actually, I just go by Scott. Settle down, read a little more and spend a little less time getting your cockles up, and you won't need to have such a defensive attitude. But you've already let us know that you don't give a flip what anyone here thinks, except perhaps the other Scott. If that's the way you want to play things, then enjoy a ride that will probably be less than it could have been.

[Lordstan]

You don't have to prove you're on par. People on this forum run the gamut from beginner to someone with one of the most advanced collections around. It's about transparency. People want to know who they are talking to. Post your name under your id would be a good start. Scammers don't typically want people to know who they are. Those who want to be part of the board and contribute aren't afraid to be known.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Actually, I just go by Scott. Settle down, read a little more and spend a little less time getting your cockles up, and you won't need to have such a defensive attitude. But you've already let us know that you don't give a flip what anyone here thinks, except perhaps the other Scott. If that's the way you want to play things, then enjoy a ride that will probably be less than it could have been.

I have respect for everyone on this forum because I know there is a plethora of knowledge on this site, I've stated this before during my short 30 or less posts now. Would you like to be disrespected and called a scammer knowing how much you and I seem to both love and respect this hobby? If you accuse someone of a crime, wouldn't you expect an innocent person or shout from the mountain tops?

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by JT

NY....

Simple rule on this forum.....put your name under your handle, or Leon will do it for you.

Not quite:
"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board."

Hard-headed and defensive is not in there. However, how much effort does it take to say "My name is XXX. You may have heard of me on XXX.com under the handle XXX."??

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

You don't have to prove you're on par. People on this forum run the gamut from beginner to someone with one of the most advanced collections around. It's about transparency. People want to know who they are talking to. Post your name under your id would be a good start. Scammers don't typically want people to know who they are. Those who want to be part of the board and contribute aren't afraid to be known.

Mark if nothing else, you have the utmost respect from a young collector. I don't have 10, 20 years in this hobby and joined this site because a moderator told me I should after contacting them after a purchase on ebay. I never understood the "drama" we encounter on these forums but now I see it seems to be inevitable. As people seem to treat "a newbie" as either completely new to the hobby or some kind of stealth scammer.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Not quite:
"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board."

Hard-headed and defensive is not in there. However, how much effort does it take to say "My name is XXX. You may have heard of me on XXX.com under the handle XXX."??

Again, my name is carmelo, you may have heard of me on gameuseduniverse.com under the handle yankees 506. I thought my first post was sufficient, I'm glad I'm not defending myself against cops or else I'd be looking at life it seems: my first post

"Hello everyone, longtime lurker on this site until I purchased a ruth fan letter once belonging to a nice member on here who suggested I go ahead and join. Long time collector of the modern stuff autos and game used. Just getting into the jungle of the high end vintage stuff."

Ok well to the business at hand, this item is being offered to me with a story of being cut out of a 1920s yankees scorecard (blue pencils supplied at the time???) any info on authenticity is appreciated!

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

I have respect for everyone on this forum because I know there is a plethora of knowledge on this site, I've stated this before during my short 30 or less posts now. Would you like to be disrespected and called a scammer knowing how much you and I seem to both love and respect this hobby? If you accuse someone of a crime, wouldn't you expect an innocent person or shout from the mountain tops?

Just take a deep breath, and reboot. Maybe an introductory post on the main board to start over.

And don't answer an innocent question like you're John Gotti Jr getting denied entry to a club. "Do you know who I am?!?!"

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Again, my name is carmelo, you may have heard of me on gameuseduniverse.com under the handle yankees 506. I thought my first post was sufficient, I'm glad I'm not defending myself against cops or else I'd be looking at life it seems: my first post

"Hello everyone, longtime lurker on this site until I purchased a ruth fan letter once belonging to a nice member on here who suggested I go ahead and join. Long time collector of the modern stuff autos and game used. Just getting into the jungle of the high end vintage stuff."

Ok well to the business at hand, this item is being offered to me with a story of being cut out of a 1920s yankees scorecard (blue pencils supplied at the time???) any info on authenticity is appreciated!

Carmelo, I saw that before, but most probably didn't. As a few said before, there have been many scammers that have tried to set up shop here. They don't last long. MOST don't seem to introduce themselves and start talking about high end stuff or giving flat-out-wrong 'opinions'.

I think this topic is a great one, but has unfortunately been derailed by the defensive posture you have taken. My opinion: take a breath before you become like Scott. (Hi, Scott!)

[Nyygameused]

While some of you may not respect he credibility of the site I'm coming from it does not take away from the fact that I'm not new to this hobby. I'm just new to this area, and that's why I was deferring to the knowledge on the board. I'm extremely disappointed with this thread but then again who am I right? Truly unfortunate