Can someone tell me what is wrong with this Yount rookie PSA 9??

[bobbyw8469]

PWCC has three for auction. Two of them are at $860 and the third one is at $380. Can someone tell me what I am missing here? Is the third one a fake??

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

[MattyC]

The lowest priced one is the ugliest of the bunch, by far-- to my eyes. The centering is atrocious. The bottom one is my favorite, but each of us may have his own pick of that litter.

[bobbyw8469]

The lowest price one, the image doesn't appear to be as 'juiced up' as the other two. I wonder if a new holder and new label would do it justice. I see what you mean about the centering though.

[MattyC]

That thing could have a label that says SUPER ULTRA MEGA MINT 12 on it in a holder sent back from the year 3000, and the centering would still make me pass on it

[Zach Wheat]

I thought the top picture had the worst centering and the right edge was very rough. The top picture did not look like a "9". The other too are about even. I wonder if the actual color contrast in the middle card was an artifact of scanning or actually that much brighter.

Here are the cards in question.

[bobbyw8469]

#2 has a juiced up appearance. #3 looks juiced up, but not as much as #2. #1 looks like it missed the 'juicing' altogether!!!

[JollyElm]

Just look at everything in the scans EXCEPT for the cards and you can see how photoshopped the middle one is. The red in the PSA label, alone, is way too bright and rich and the plastic case is so much sharper (and differently colored) than in the other two scans.

[bobbyw8469]

On the middle card, did you also notice the frosting on the lower left corner, and to a lesser degree the upper right corner has a milder case of frosting. I wonder if someone attempted the old switcheroo on that card! Not saying it happened, because the frosting doesn't look to be large enough. Just noticed it.

[KCRfan1]

The upper right corner on the lesser expensive Yount is / appears to have slight rounding. The other two cards have very sharp corners. Not sure how the lesser expensive card received a 9 grade. Seems generous to me. Whether the cards are fake or not never entered my mind. It's an issue of the condition of the cards. Whoever buys that card is buying a holder and not the card. I can find an ungraded card in better condition for much less dollars than what they will spend for that " 9 ".

[MBMiller25]

Im more curious to know why the images look so different on the same card. That is quite the contrast between all three cards. I wonder the decision is made to turn the "juice" on with some scans, and "juice" off with the others. I prefer the non "juice" scan the best, although I agree, its the least appealing of the three Younts.

[bobbyw8469]

....and the rounding of the corners versus the sharp corners is just subtle differences in the various generations of slabs. The non juiced card is in an older slab with an older style flip.

[Prof_Plum]

178 > 929 (centering) > 732 (centering and dk brown? registration)

[CW]

I'm seeing cards with "juiced" scans littered throughout Brent's auctions. They stick out like a sore thumb. Very weird, somewhat unprofessional, and misleading to bidders.

[glynparson]

like that can easily happen on the old psa cases from storage or shipping. I have seen it happen many times over the years. could be from tamper but probably not.

[bobbyw8469]

The older case doesn't have frosting....it is the newer case with frosting.

[a761506]

The more important question is, how disappointed would you be as a consignor of either of the two lesser examples that are being cannibalized within the same auction? Heck, even the nicest card could be affected by this.

[bobbyw8469]

Yes! Most auction houses only run one of such a high grade, high profile card! PWCC has three! Unfortunately, when you get some of the high prices that PWCC attains, then consignors follow you like the Pied Piper of Hamlin. I for one like his auctions, I have consigned with him in the past, and will consign with him in the future. Some of the astronomical prices his items attain is a topic for another thread however.

[glynparson]

The newer ones fit in differently and do not have windows. In seam like the old. The new cases fit more like Beckett but thinner.

[SMPEP]

... I am involved in a hobby where paying $860 for a Robin Yount RC makes sense???

There is NO mass produced Topps card from the 1970s that is worth $860 - no matter what player it is and no matter how nice the corners are.

Heck, I can get a 1923 W572 Babe Ruth, Ty cobb AND Walter Johnson for less than that combined in decent condition.

Every day I think it's time to sell everything I own because the collecting world has jumped the shark.

Patrick

[bobbyw8469]

The ironic part? If the Yount rookie was only one grade higher, then instead of $860, you would be paying over $20,000+!!!! Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

[SMPEP]

... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).

BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).

Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick

[toppszl1]

The middle card looks juiced with photoshop at least 1000mg

The top card is to far to the right, it's a 7 on a good day but not a 9

The bottom card is the one to buy, less money and almost centered.

My .2 cents

[CW]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).

The only problem with this is, assuming PSA is on top of their game, it can be difficult to get sheet-cut cards to pass PSA grading. A competent grader should be able to distinguish between an original factory cut and a modern man-made cut. Also, you need to consider surface flaws like wrinkles, print spots, fading, etc. The cut may be "gem mint" but the surfaces might by NM at best.

A big part of the mystique and value of these super high grade cards is that all the stars had to align at the factory in order for a gem mint card to exist. This is why a perfect card cut by hand from a sheet will never hold the same value as perfect card from the factory. I don't collect high grade cards as I find more bang for my buck in the midgrade range, but to each their own

BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).

Much of the value of any item is created by supply and demand. Yes, the supply of vintage, original uncut sheets is very small, but not many collectors specialize in uncut sheets. This is why a PSA 9 Brett RC will cost more than the complete uncut sheet with a Brett -- supply and (more importantly) demand.

Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick

Yes, for some it is a competition. Different collectors will get excited or passionate over different things. The key is to collect what you like and not expend too much effort trying to legitimize or validate what others choose to collect. It's all about the love of the game (® registered trademark, Love of the Game Auctions ).

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

... to provide an illustration of why this is so dumb ... Let's look at this Huggins & Scott auction:

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=65097

Right now you can get a Yount AND Brett uncut rookie sheet for $475 (plus all the other cards). These are PSA 10s if you cut them out correctly (as many folks have done - including the only PSA 10 for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle).

BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet. Anyone can find a high grade card of any Topps player to buy ... How many uncut sheets are left out there?

There is ONE uncut 1952 Topps Mantle sheet out there. There are 2,000+ graded 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles (by PSA alone).

Does being #1 in the registry means so much to these folks?

Wow.
Patrick

I thought there were three 10s of the 52 Mick, and closer to 1200 total graded by PSA. Will have to check the numbers, maybe I'm wrong.

Just because something is rare, like a 52 sheet with the Mantle on it, doesn't necessarily mean that it is desired by as many collectors as the card. I admire sheets for their aesthetic appeal, and they are cool pieces framed. Point is, people collect what they like. If that's a sheet, great. If it's a single, cool. But demand plays a great deal in value, too, and there are far more card collectors than sheet collectors out there. And then the relationship between attractive examples of an in-demand card results in the prices we are seeing. As opposed to an item that may be very rare, but is not the object of as much desire and competition. Of course, then you get cards like a Frederick Foto Ruth that is both wanted by many AND exceedingly rare.

What a man spends his money on is his business. I certainly wouldn't let other people's expenditures influence me selling pieces I like, as was intimated in an earlier post.

I personally see no reason to spend 20k on a Yount 10 when I can have one for several hundred that looks the same to me. But if some guy with the money feels he wants or needs that "10" for whatever reason, hey, it's his money. Now if we are talking about an overgraded 10 that is not GEM MT, then I personally think it's asinine and will happily debate that with the buyer of any overgraded card if it is put in my face expecting adoration-- but in the end if someone is happy and not looking to debate card versus holder, let'em be happy. But when it comes up for auction, this guy won't be bidding.

With respect to the assertion that a card from the 70s is not "worth" $860, the simple fact is that someone paid that amount for a Yount 9, and an accurately graded 9 will fetch the same or more these days. So whether all of us would buy it or not is irrelevant, since the fact is that it is indeed "worth" that.

Overall, I think no two collectors hold the same exact cards on their personal pedestal, so it should come as no surprise that some people spend on something another might never be inclined to look at, let alone buy. It's a big hobby and there are so many different types of collectors. If everyone collected and valued the exact same items, it would be rather boring. In fact, many of my favorite cards today are cards other collectors put me on to. Similarly, we may highly value and spend on cards today that we might not like so much in the future. Today's registry collector spending money on PSA 10 commons might turn around and call that insanity tomorrow. Today's guy who loathes set building and commons might find himself loving it in ten years. It's a big collecting world out there. There will always be other guys who like what another likes, and guys who prefer other stuff. I do think, both consciously and subconsciously, many collectors want as many others as possible out there to desire what they desire, and that plays into much of the discourse on forums like this.

When it comes to statements like, "BUT the REAL value ... is the complete uncut sheet," we can all make our compelling cases for what we think is the most desirable and therefore valuable item out there-- but it's all in the eye of the beholder, and what he wants for his collection.

[MattyC]

Ah, CW-- as usual I see we post so many of the exact same sentiments! Funny.

Best,

Matt