Considerations while collecting

[cubsfan-budman]

Do you take into consideration the character of the athlete that you collect when collecting?

As a new vintage collector, a huge portion of the enjoyment that I receive is reading about the athlete's lives as I collect. One of the things that shouldn't have been surprising is the extremely varied lives that these guys lived. On one hand you have what appear to be great guys like Gehrig and Gehringer and then questionable characters like Cap Anson and Ty Cobb.

I've been drinking, so bear with me, but I don't imagine that anyone would collect cards of a modern player who was a well known racist or cheater. So anyhow, again, as a new collector, I guess I don't bear the burden of thinking that Ty Cobb needs to be the centerpiece of my collection.

Does this occur to other collectors?

If you're not building a set, do you avoid Chick Gandil or Eddie Collins?

Post Script, I certainly mean no offense to any that collect these players! Just wondering!

[Bicem]

what's wrong with Eddie Collins?

I don't take character into consideration, I personally admire these guys as ballplayers and not men, and what they did on the field and not off. My only exception would be maybe Waddell who's off the field antics I find interesting. Of course, if he wasn't the great player he was, I wouldn't collect him.

[z28jd]

I would do it with newer cards if I collected more of them. Unless I was putting together a set, I'd trade(or sell) away any Yankees, and some various players for various reasons, such as Pirates players I didn't like when they were on the team, BJ Upton because he shouldn't be allowed to play baseball after all the times he gave zero effort, AJ Pierzynski because he is an annoying human being, etc.

Older players didn't have a chance to personally annoy me so I don't get mad at things they did well before I was born. Heck, I even like old Yankees players

[rainier2004]

I don't take into consideration character, its hard to really know anyway. I don't care too much for anson after reading about him, too bad he's the key card to the N28s which I am going for if I ever finish my CJs. Its about their ball playing.

[ValKehl]

Yes, I take character into considration. This ia one of the reasons that I collect Walter Johnson and Sam Rice.
Val

[Texxxx]

I don't take character into consideration. If I did I would collect Mother Teresa cards but I don't. I collect "Baseball" cards.

[Bocabirdman]

I do take character into consideration. The MORE of a character the player was, the more likely it is that he will wind up in my collection, sooner than later.

[kmac32]

Could care less about a players character. I collect the set I like. Into black and white issue.

[Paul S]

You might be best served by picking up the CD pack of The Glory of Their Times. You would find that players have not changed all that much in 100 years:
Following is a man of excess, a misanthrope, and a cheat. You would deny yourself these cards? As for modern, I dont collect them, so I don't Buy Bonds.

[drc]

I tend to be fascinated by complex historical figures, and complex usually means they aren't all good or all bad.

Ty Cobb wasn't a good person in may ways, but he is a fascinating and full of character historical figure.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by drc

I like Ty Cobb as a historical figure (rather than as a person) because he is so full of character and interesting. If he went to church everyday and and was even tempered, I'd find him boring.

+ 1

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Paul S

+ 1

Originally Posted by drc

I tend to be fascinated by complex historical figures, and complex usually means they aren't all good or all bad.

Ty Cobb wasn't a good person in may ways, but he is a fascinating and full of character historical figure.

I think this is interesting. I was going to ask, if Ty Cobb was "bad" person, and you never got to see him play, what would compel you to collect him (of all people)?

I figured there are a few reasons that I could think of:

1. Don't know about character
2. Don't care about character
3. Part of a "set" you're trying to collect

[williamcohon]

A fair question.

Collecting cards of admirable historic figures, or those with fascinating stories, is no less valid an approach than the set-building, team-building, or type-collecting, pursued by most on this board.

It's not far from my own approach, which is to supplement my hunt for Obaks with cards that fit into several sub-sets: Jewish players, early Blacks (between Jackie and Pumpsie Green), and funny cards (mostly tongue out, eyes closed, or bad hair).

As for avoiding cards of the players who were racists, criminals, or sleezebags, that's a trickier issue. I suppose if buying a Ty Cobb card were seen somehow to endorse his reprehensible traits, there might be a bit more resistance.

One could argue that buying pre-1947 cards celebrates racism. And (gulp) there may be a grain of truth to it. But surely baseball reflects the values of its time. Prior to the Second World War, our society and its institutions were a good deal more racist, sexist anti-Semitic, and homophobic than they are today. I think my collection documents societal progress.

Here's the thing: we're not perfect. Should we wait until we're perfect before we open a pack of cards? Still, if there's anyone you think needs to be cast out of the garden, it's your collection, and your decision.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Do you take into consideration the character of the athlete that you collect when collecting?

Two of my favorite pre-war baseball players are Ty Cobb and Hal Chase.....so my answer is obviously no.

[ullmandds]

I like to collect players I like as well as the best of the best.

I think you'll find in most aspects of life that the best of the best...the most successful in their chosen field...especially athletes...tend to be flawed...ultra competetive...prone to excess and extravagances...and sometimes cheating and brutality. Much more interesting to me as well than someone more vanilla!

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I do take character into consideration. The MORE of a character the player was, the more likely it is that he will wind up in my collection, sooner than later.

Mike, you must have handfuls of Germany Schaefer!

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Mike, you must have handfuls of Germany Schaefer!

Not as many as I would like. You must give "props" to anyone who steals first base....

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I think this is interesting. I was going to ask, if Ty Cobb was "bad" person, and you never got to see him play, what would compel you to collect him (of all people)?

I figured there are a few reasons that I could think of:

1. Don't know about character
2. Don't care about character
3. Part of a "set" you're trying to collect

Because he is one of the top 5 best baseball players that ever played the game. #1 in my opinion, probably not others, especially Yankee fans

[novakjr]

I've got a small number of cards that I have pretty much because of scandals... Outside of baseball, OJ Simpson, Kobe, Lance Armstrong, Mike Vick, Tiger Woods, Marion Jones, Abe Attell, Jim Tressel, Joe Paterno come to mind.. Now if only I could find a card of Danny Almonte.

Not that I feel any attachment with these guys, BUT their falls are quite historic. Without the scandals, these were somewhat historic athletes/coaches in terms of sports, but the scandals and lessons to be learned from their mistakes have crossed that line into mainstream historical context..

[SushiX37]

Originally Posted by drc

I tend to be fascinated by complex historical figures, and complex usually means they aren't all good or all bad.

Ty Cobb wasn't a good person in may ways, but he is a fascinating and full of character historical figure.

Very true. I've worked with Ty Cobb Memorial Hospital in the past. At first I found it somewhat ironic, but after some research I found he wasn't as bad as all the stories made him out to be.

That being said, character has nothing to do with what I collect. I'd likely consider their contributions on the field over character issues, if I had to make that choice.

Rich

[Exhibitman]

A bit. I've never been much of a fan of Joe DiMaggio, for example, because of how he treated fans, so I probably place less value on having cards of his than his place in Yankees and baseball history otherwise merits. I used to idolize Willie Mays until I met him at a card show and was so disgusted by his behavior that I dumped my entire collection of his cards. I also don't bother with the steroid boys even though Bonds and Clemens should be in the top echelon of player collections. I'd normally go after a nice signed card of each to represent them but haven't bothered.

[Eric72]

“Character” is somewhat important to my collecting habits. For good or ill, I do take into consideration the stories behind the players. Whether it might be the eccentricities of Rube Waddell or the wholesome goodness of Christy Mathewson, the lavish excess of Babe Ruth or the quiet reserve of Lou Gehrig, the passionate (and somewhat questionable, by today’s standards) drive of Ty Cobb or the similarly driven Pete Rose, along with Jackie Robinson’s admirable and hard-fought contributions to the game and Roberto Clemente’s generosity of spirit, these players (and many more) pique my interest in ways that .300 hitters, the 500 Home Run Club (Rafael Palmeiro, anyone?) and 3,000 Strikeout members never will.

As a side note, I agree with Jeff in asking, what is wrong with Eddie Collins?

All the best,

Eric

[Brian Van Horn]

I take into consideration the body of work of the player, not the character. If I judged character as part of my collecting, I would never have a Cobb.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Interesting about Ruth and Cobb. Ruth was excessive, particularly his generosity to fans. His humanity, strengths and weaknesses, were out there for all to see. The best of the best in living clean had their faults too but those faults were not on display.

Cobb was a very intense man...look at his eyes. He stared men down and they ran off talking among themselves about how the evil man assaulted them with his eyes. People that intense are taken too seriously and exaggerated. Cobb was a racist? Why is he talked about more than other racists from that era? Because he was the best?

The best of the best in popularity and skills are the people most talked about. Extroverted peope are easy to judge. Introverted people not so much.

Cobb wanted to win at any cost.
Ruth wanted people to see him win.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Interesting about Ruth and Cobb. Ruth was excessive, particularly his generosity to fans. His humanity, strengths and weaknesses, were out there for all to see. The best of the best in living clean had their faults too but those faults were not on display.

Cobb was a very intense man...look at his eyes. He stared men down and they ran off talking among themselves about how the evil man assaulted them with his eyes. People that intense are taken too seriously and exaggerated. Cobb was a racist? Why is he talked about more than other racists from that era? Because he was the best?

The best of the best in popularity and skills are the people most talked about. Extroverted peope are easy to judge. Introverted people not so much.

Cobb wanted to win at any cost.
Ruth wanted people to see him win.

Very nicely expressed..