Opinion on cut signatures

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Posted By: Vanessa Phipps

I have a chance to purchase beautiful single cut signatures(so good it almost looks like postcards) of Ruth and Gehrig on separate cuts not together for $2500.00. But it gets better I think, they will through in cut signatures of Honest Wagner, Cy Young, and Ty Cobb. The whole lot for $3000. Before I get berated for not doing research, I did search the current Memory Lane auction and they all have bids well over this amount combined. Basically I am searching for advice on the purchase. Any help or opinion would be great. Thank you!




Fire Houston Nutt!! But Damn hire someone already!!! Mcfadden forthe Heisman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Autograph questions should be moved to the memorabilia forum...there are a couple of experts over there.

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Posted By: Anonymous

This question should actually have been posted on the Memorabilia side... Since I am over here, I'll give this a shot...

It all depends upon whether the autos are authentic. That is an unheard of price, if the signatures are good. So good a price, that I would question the authenticity (and/or the seller's motives for selling). If the sigs are fakes, obviously they are worthless.

To protect yourself, you should (at a minimum) get a "quick opinion" from PSA. You should also get a written commitment from the seller, stating that he/she will accept a full return if the sigs fail to pass authentication.

The names you mentioned have all been forged by some of the most talented crooks in the business... just be sure you know what you're getting. With regard to autographs, the old saying usually holds true... "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is".

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Posted By: DJ

It takes two seconds to create and fool someone. These signatures are the most liquid in the business and to get a bargain like this is a RED FLAG.

After all, we are talking roughly $6,000+ for $3,000. I would ask this person if it was okay to have it authenticated by someone else and listen to him/her "hee" and "haw" about "these experts" and a bunch of excuses will come flowing from the mouth about how "experts" aren't "experts" and he/she has been doing this for so long and it comes with an Letter or Certificate, blah, blah, blah.

DJ

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Posted By: Rob L

There are too many red flags. All of these are some of the most forged vintage autographs on the market and the chance that all of them would be sold together at such a low price suggests that they are not real. Why not ask the seller to have them authenticated? Offer to pay the authentication fees if they are real. Otherwise, run away.

Rob L

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Posted By: Turner Engle

I made a similar mistake a few months ago with autographs. I took a gamble and lost.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/567138/thread/1193599315/last-1194322332/Autograph+help>

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Posted By: Rob L

It's easy to get sucked into these autographs because many of them are very good. Most who collect vintage autographs have learned the hard way. I had:



Rob L

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I noticed a bunch of autographed T206s showing up on eBay this past year after rarely seeing any in 25 years of collecting. I have no doubt that many of them were bad. I also think that anyone who thinks the so-called experts have a clue are sadly mistaken as well!

Patrick

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I agree with Patrick, I don't think there is a person that can tell you for certain if an autograph is legit. The biggest sports memorbilia arrest by the FBI was a well respected company in hobby that forged many autographs and gave them letters of authenticity.

I see autograph I did not receive in person I have zero interest in paying a dime for them. Has anyone ever tried reselling one? If so did you have any luck?

Lee

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Posted By: T206Collector

<<I noticed a bunch of autographed T206s showing up on eBay this past year after rarely seeing any in 25 years of collecting. I have no doubt that many of them were bad. I also think that anyone who thinks the so-called experts have a clue are sadly mistaken as well!>>

I purchased almost all of them. They are from one of the all-time great autograph collections in Pittsburgh. Many of them came with letters from the players themselves, and were all signed in the late 1960's. The provenance is very strong, I assure you. I will be posting my website that showcases all of them later this evening or tomorrow. Feel free to take a look.

<<Has anyone ever tried reselling one?>>

Yes.

<<If so did you have any luck?>>

I turn a profit just about every time.

Seriously -- if you come across a signed T206 card and want to sell it to me, please shoot me an e-mail.

Frankly, I get the point that there is always risk with autographs. But when you have strong provenance and you are confident that the signature is authentic, it is an amazing experience. If you can't get beyond the chance that the signature may not be genuine, then more power to you. But I'm starting to come to the conclusion that if the card isn't signed, all you have a a piece of card board with a man's picture on it. That's how much the autographs mean to me.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Here is a resale from that collection that still has me scratching my head:

Compare this card purchased on ebay a few months ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130160776548&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

...with the same card sold at auction a few weeks ago:

http://americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=40280

Talk about resale value.

Also, note the seller -- Dan Means. He's one of the dealers in Pittsburgh that is selling these cards from the autograph collection. He is selling tons of autographs from this collection and only a small percentile of them are signed pre-war cards.

I have had some long conversations with a couple of dealers in the Pittsburgh area about this collection and have been trying to pry as many of the signed pre-war cards from them as possible for almost a year.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

You are being offered these autographs at a price that is WAY BELOW what any legitimate dealer would pay.

This deal smells really bad to me.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Vanessa Phipps

I am sorry guys, first of all for posting in wrong area, and secondly for not giving all the info. The signatures are from a close friend in my area who also happens to be a very large collector. That being said, he will give me a guarantee and I can send them to PSA for authenticity. Thank you for your input. It is greatly appreciated!!!!

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Posted By: JK

"But I'm starting to come to the conclusion that if the card isn't signed, all you have a a piece of card board with a man's picture on it. That's how much the autographs mean to me."

And with a signature, all you have is a piece of card board with a man's picture and some writing on it.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...but the player held the card and signed it himself, which gives the card a deeper connection to its own history.

But yes, they are just cardboard things with paper and ink on them, even with the signature.

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Posted By: jeffdrum

As my wife says when someone asks her what her husband does for fun, "He plays a lot of golf and collects little pictures of men!"

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Posted By: Brett

Its so easy to fake these players autographs... theres alot of fakes out there.

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Posted By: Fred C

A COA is no guarantee that the signature is authentic. Even those people make mistakes. I'd give a little more credibility to cancelled checks and signed documents without a COA. Obviously, I'd like to see the items in person before accepting them as "authentic".

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Posted By: Brett

Even if an autograph was authenticated by PSA, I still would have doubts. The only person who can tell you the autograph is real is the guy who signed it. How do we know that people weren't making fake autographs back in the day when these old time ball players were still alive ?