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  #1  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:04 AM
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Default Same old question, but it is killing me!

Posted By: Bryan Long

I have to get this off my chest and I wonder how many people feel the same way. I have a very limited budget - very limited! I love my pre-war cards, but how many people have practically stopped collecting because of the prices that our pre-war cardboard is now bringing? I am a set collector at heart - even though I try to say I am not at times, but the prices lately are killing me and my collection. I constantly want a flow of cards coming in to satisfy my needs as a collector. It is getting harder and harder to accomplish this with the way prices are now. Spending $75 or more on a SGC 10 e93 common is simply too much for me to handle. It has come to the point where I am only buying a card once every couple of months.
I find myself leaning towards collecting 40s and 50s cards just so that I can have that feeling of collecting again. Do others feel the same way?
I am heading to the Nationals this year and find myself wondering . . . will I even have enough cash saved up to buy some of the pre-war stuff that I need or should I just go ahead and finished that darn 48 bowman set that I started 1 year ago?
I know that I am venting and this has become way too long, but I am curious to know how other collectors deal with this.

.

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  #2  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:07 AM
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Posted By: Dave F

Bryan...I'm in the same boat believe me. For me, when I don't have the cash to make purchase after purchase, that is when I find myself trading or selling one card to buy another...I'm not really getting anywhere that way...but it does rotate my collection around a bit. Oh how wonderful the old days must have been.

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  #3  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:13 AM
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Posted By: Bill K

Bryan, I am in exactly the same boat as you. In fact your post is VERY timely in that I have decided to get out of the vintage market entirely. I'm going to be selling nearly all of my cards. Maybe when I'm older, and the kids are out of the house (17 years from now) I'll pick it up again. I love the cards but have too much tied up into them and have no hope of attaining any sets based on the skewed pricing even from two to three years ago. I won't leave the board, I enjoy reading and learing about the collections and history too much. I'll just enjoy the digital scans of the cards I once owned.

Maybe in 15 - 20 years things will be more reasonable.

Bill



My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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  #4  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:18 AM
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Posted By: Jason L

My wants are going up exponentially, but my purchases have started to slow, and even more importantly, my eagerness and willingness to spend has been dropping steadily for some time with this rising market.
I started the year way too strong and now need to back off some.

You are correct, and I think your thoughts on diverting your attention towards more affordable areas is natural and common...if things become less satisfying, people will adjust in order to try and maintain their level of happiness...but I'm not sure that 1980s cards are going to make a comeback...

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  #5  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:33 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

If the trend continues, vintage cards will become more expensive and it will become nearly impossible for collectors on a budget to participate.

However, cards from the 40's and 50's are now more than half a century old, so maybe start looking at them as vintage. There's really nothing you can do about rising prices.

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  #6  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:40 AM
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Posted By: joe

Yes, I am certainly getting priced out of the market. The only good thing is I have cards worth a lot more than I paid for them in the 80's.


Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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  #7  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:00 AM
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Posted By: E, Daniel

Bryan, perhaps a change in focus from color caramels which are incredibly popular and expensive right now - to the B&W caramel/bread/foods, strips, Exhibits, and other issues from the 20's and 30's could supply some ongoing enjoyment.....
Cards from many of these issues can still be picked up for less than $30-$40 for commons, and HOFers are not nearly as expensive as 1910 era E cards. You still get great players, some great portraiture and actions shots, the history, and more importantly - the cardboard itself is available with far less competition.
Then there are always pins which are a fraction of the price of cardboard, that could maybe keep juicing your collective spirits.

I really recommend NOT going cold turkey.......it could drive you to all kinds of horrible compulsions; Non Sports, Beanie babies, Franklin Mint plates...YIKES!


Hope you find a way out.


Regards
Daniel

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  #8  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:00 AM
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Posted By: Bryan Long

I am happy to hear that I am not the only one. I had this conversation just last night with a good friend of mine who got out of the pre-war marketing and starting collecting 50s, 60s and 70s sets again.

I have even thought about leaving the pre-war market altogether, but the thought of not having or getting any pre-war cards just kill me as that is my true love in the hobby. But I don't think it is possible for me to collect pre-war and have any fun at it. Just look at the two big auctions going on right now. I have almost been priced out of every lot on the board that I would have any interest in at all.

I must admit that the only cards that I will most likely be buying now will be the rare opportunity when I can pick up an e93 beater that I will need for my set. Once that is done I don't see me starting another pre-war set anytime soon.

I guess I'll be finishing that 48 bowman set afterall, and then starting another post-war collection. I am sad by this. As I said above . . . pre-war cardboard is my real love in the hobby.

.

EDITED TO COMMENT ON DANIEL'S POST: Thanks for the options, but I have very starnge collecting habits - just ask those who know me. I have never been a fan of "large card" (Exhibits) and I hate the strip cards simply because they are mostly cut by hand or simply have horrible artwork. I love the small tobacco/caramel cards for some reason. But, I also like the larger Topps and Bowman type cards as well - just a little too new for me. I do think that maybe the 40s and early 50s are the way to go for me now. At least for the time being.

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  #9  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:07 AM
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Posted By: leon

Bryan- as mentioned you should look at some other pre-war sets...and pick up the early E's whenever there is a good deal. The e120 and e121, while black and white, still have some great poses, great HOF'ers, and aren't terribly expensive. I picked up a group of about 6 E120's with Joe Wood for about $100 a few months ago on ebay.....it can be done.....otherwise, I have to agree with you. I tell folks all of the time that I could never afford to buy my collection today...best regards and see you at the National..

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  #10  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:17 AM
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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Bryan:

I was saying the exact same thing a few nights ago on the chat. I also started to pick up a few 1952 Bowman catchers since I have been lucky if I buy one vintage card per month. I also have sold off some items, so I could justify buying others at today's inflated prices.

I feel fortunate to have bought most of my collection when the cards were much more affordable. If I hadn't gotten interested in the Pacific Coast League, I'm sure that my collecting would have stopped completely.

I feel your pain.

A lot of the blame for inflating the prices should go to the damn grading companies.

Patrick

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  #11  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:28 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I feel your pain as well Bryan. I long ago turned my eye to a more affordable focus. Some of the items I collect come up so rarely and without much competition that by the time they do come up I can afford them, but I have noticed new competition for some of the things I collect. I also chose to put together the Scrapps set which I think is probably the most affordable of the 19th Century sets if you're not too worried about condition.

I have also contemplated getting back into the 1950-70s Topps set building, but haven't taken too big of a stab at it yet because I want to do this with my son and he hasn't shown much interest as of yet.

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  #12  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:31 AM
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Posted By: Mark

The prices of vintage cards are getting to be too much for the average collector. I guess going for the common 1950's high grades are the way to go. They are nice looking cards and pretty cheap for now. I just look for deals on the vintage stuff and find the things i like.

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  #13  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:44 AM
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Posted By: Richard L.

I take exception to non sports as a "horrible compulsion". I've been collecting vintage non sport cards and glad I made the switch from baseball cards. My main reason for the "switch" is in tune with the original posters reasoning about high prices. This is a fantastic alternative to these "out of reach BB cards for the average collector" Guess, you haven't noticed the NS section in the Mastro/REA auctions. Non sports cards are becoming more and more popular. Many of the cards are more attractive, lower production, at a fraction of the cost. How you could compare it to beanie babies is the strangest comment I've heard this week(and I've read some real winners to choose from). Check out the forum54 non sport side sometime, you might like it!

math equation:

t206 Wagner (50-60 known) 2,000,000.00
r114 McKinely (5-6 known) 20,000.00

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  #14  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:46 AM
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Posted By: Bryan Long

That is the problem for me. I have such strange taste when it comes to pre-war cards. I have pre-war sets that i like and collect and then I have pre-war sets that I don't like or hate and refuse to buy them just to collect the cards at my price range. It is finding the happy medium that I struggle with everytime I look at Ebay or the auction houses. It seems as though this hobby as gone to the rich. I agree that there are buys out there, but as a set collector with picky taste it is getting much harder to collect.


.
EDITED FOR SPELLING

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  #15  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:47 AM
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Posted By: Mike

The past 6 months, I have been slowly selling off my 70's and 80's collection on ebay so I could begin my vintage collection. I finally own a few really nice vintage cards like a Cobb and Matty, and have cleaned out my closet at the same time. I figure it is better to own a dozen real nice pieces as opposed to a couple thousand pieces of junk cluttering the house. Unfortunately, selling 80's baseball cards on ebay is the equivalent to selling an old cat at a garage sale. Bottom line, the current market is very unfortunate for somebody like me entering the market. I simply have to accept that I won't be completing that many sets, and the ones I do start will take many years to complete. But hopefully I will appreciate them more.

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Old 04-18-2007, 11:02 AM
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Posted By: steve

Hello,

So I have my vintage cards, maybe 25 or 30, all in safe deposit box. I have been upgrading for the past 6 or 7 years, all the while keeping it to under 30 cards. Needless to say, they are very nice in the $1000. to $5000. range.
No commons. No sets. Just way nice vintage upper tier HOF'ers.

Then for when finances are tough, I have my Walter Payton's and Kareem Abdul Jabbar cards. I get a lot of joy from these as they were childhood heros. In PSA 8 and 9's, you don't have to break the bank, and you keep your collecting alive.

Not all Walter Paytons are easy, nor siree bob ! Look at the pop #'s for the 1977, 1984 & 1985 Paytons in PSA 9 - very tough. Actually tougher than, say, a T206 Matty dk. cap PSA 5.

Just never been into commons/sets. I want the big names. Willing to sacrifice sheer quantity.

Steve.

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  #17  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:06 AM
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Posted By: E, Daniel

Please note the smiley face at the end of the sentence regarding NS, no offence was meant and I thought the humour/tongue in cheek nature of the statement was kind of obvious.

I love non-sports and check out the NS board quite regularly, and the Americana sections of the various Auction House Catalogs mesmorize me every bit as much as the sports.

Peace to All Non Sports Collectors.


Daniel

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  #18  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:06 AM
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Posted By: James Harkins

Brian,
this is my first post ever, but I have been collecting cards during my second childhood for 32 years. I've been lurking for months wanting to express my opinion. The issues you raise will always be there. The bills have to be paid, the children have to be raised, educated and married off and the card prices continue to rise. My advice is to take a long term prospective. You can't buy everything at once. Concentrate on one or two sets. Save money for an occasional purchase. Over time you will complete these sets and move on to others. It took me 11 years to complete my T202 set. 14 years to complete my p2 pin set and 12 years to complete a set of B18 blankets.
Another word of advice is to find another source of income. Many card collectors became part time dealers(and some full time) to fund their hobby needs. Back in the 1980's, I was able to maintain a very positive cash flow supplying people sets of new cards and still managed to keep my wife from devorcing me. I don't know how to do it today, but having cash is an assential part of building a collection of vintage sports cards.

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  #19  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:07 AM
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Posted By: Jason L

when you find yourself only buying the commons so you can feel like you are collecting something!!!
As I have shared before, my first serious foray into pre-war is the T206 Cubs set that I am working on...but I can't afford to collect anything really fun! - and so my collection consists of 13 or so of the commons, with no HOFers...
I can buy 1-2 of the commons per month, but once I only have the HOFers left, I will probably slow to 1 every 2-3 months (which is not fun, and is likely to get sidetracked on something more affordable!!!)
stay tuned...

I agree with Barry...acceptance is the first step towards more productive collecting! This mentality is what I like to call:
I'll never get the Homecoming Queen, but maybe she has a nice friend

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  #20  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:13 AM
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Posted By: Bryan Long

Nice to have brought out of the dark corners of lurking and into the light.

I can see myself starting one pre-war set and one post-war set and concentrating on those two sets only. I finsh one . . . I start another. This may be the only way to still keep my hobby that I love. It doesn't solve the problem of needing a constant flow of cards coming in - but at least I have jumped ship to collect Beanie Babies

No harm intended to Beanie Bay collectors! I don't want to get ripped apart

.

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  #21  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:15 AM
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Posted By: Jason L

Nail on head, my friend, nail on head!!! I too, pursue Mr. Payton as a diversion from the more frustrating vintage pursuits

And indeed, those are the 3 years where I am stuck at PSA 8...they come up, and every time they do, I think to myself, "I am NOT paying that much for this card"...and of course, someone else does!!!

shameless plug: http://www.freewebs.com/chisywact/walterpayton.htm

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  #22  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:20 AM
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Posted By: John S

Bryan,

Undeniably there has been a tremendous increase in prices in the last 3-5 years. As Barry stated, prices may begin to exclude the average vintage collector. I believe that this "fear" has served to drive prices even higher as those of us that see the vintage hobby escaping our grasps attempt to acquire what we can. "Armpit" and other undesireable body part cards have really increased in value as a result.

I have been doing this for 25 years and I plan to continue. I have been partially financing my collecting by selling some of my collection...something I vowed never to do. I also try to be patient and not become part of the mania by bidding only a set amount for cards that I know will surface again.

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  #23  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:25 AM
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Posted By: Richard L.

Whew, what a relief, I'll call off the NS hound dogs. Actually, the same thing is occurring with NS cards as well(no where near the same degree as BB). I've noticed a trend in some of the higher end cards thru ebay. I know many of the long time collectors, but a new "batch" of collectors have risen. They are the "investors", with little knowledge and DEEP pockets. I've even seen a few instances where some of these guys are paying big bucks for repro sets, not disclosed by the seller(perhaps unaware) and the buyers are that clueless. So, as collectors is there anything we can do? Going out to buy some lottery tickets, hoping to win the JACKPOT!

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  #24  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:39 AM
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Posted By: joe brennan

I'm happy to pick up a few cards here and there. I still pick up a T206 now and them, but I still have my 60's football to fall back on when money is tight. A few dollars buy quite a few commons and it's still a blast to put a mid collection together like I did when I was a kid.

In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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  #25  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:43 AM
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Posted By: Dan Calandriello

I won't get onto my soapbox for nonsports as a substitute for baseball,
but it sure could complement your baseball collection.

I collected baseball for years....check SCD in the 70s and
you'll find my ad selling complete sets of 50,51,52,53 baseball.

I've also enjoyed the nonsports side of the hobby, especially the tobacco
albums, tobacco banners, the tobacco leathers.

The nonsports forum is loaded with great pictures and information. Thanks
to Leon and Tom Boblitt a few months ago, it's been gaining
momentum weekly. Stop over once in awhile and see some fine pictures
and some information that you'll never find in collectible magazines.

Also click below and you'll see some super NS pictures that I've
posted at the NS Forum. Hope you enjoy them.

And, as some politician once said "I know nonsports and nonsports
is NO beanie babies"


http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-N36/N36s.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-N114/N114s.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-N41/N41s.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns/mmms.html

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  #26  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:49 AM
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Posted By: leon

My good friend Tom B. has done an excellent job on the non sports site. I wish them all the best.....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/

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  #27  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:52 AM
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Posted By: Jason L

Something to keep in mind:

A truism of Wall Street, that I think can be applied in many other facets of life: Easy Come, Easy Go.

While many people think of that phrase in terms of money won vs. money lost, it is more than that. It also refers to the investment decision making process. A money manager who is quick to buy something (doesn't do alot of research, but instead thinks he understands the investment because it's hot, he wants to keep up with the pack and own the hot stock) will also be the first to bail out when things start to sour, often without ever bothering along the way to learn what is driving the stock's performance, or truly learn about the company. The investment idea came and went quickly. You don't spend much time or energy to learn it in the first place, then you are determined to not be left holding the bag and needing to explain to investors why you made that bet in the first place.

Why do I tell you this?
What the hell is my point?

If there is in fact a new class of "investors" - maybe even corporate funds that are beginning to treat the collectables market as a new asset class, and they are spending stoopid money on reprints, etc...and NOT learning their targets...well, I think it is safe to say that we can expect a market drop.

you watch, if global liquidity begins to dry up, and people become more risk averse, and investors start to pull in the reigns...all of a sudden this will not longer be an asset class, "investment holdings" will be dumped, and those of us with true product knowledge, will know what to buy and prices will afford the opportunity. Because IF this is actually what is happening and we have a new buying class here with deep pockets...and IF there is a financial crisis of any kind...there WILL be alot of people wondering why their money was invested in baseball cards and not GE bonds!

Not saying any of this will happen. I'm just saying that if we have a crunch, uneducated investors will flee, and prices will return to normal.
It is tried and true investor behavior seen time and again.

Weak hands sell into weakness.

And corporate investors (if they exist) will prove to be weak hands.



Edited for spelling and to say that while I am not an elite financial mover-and-shaker, I have as yet not seen any research material, advertisements, articles, findings, asset allocation models, or anecdotal evidence at all to suggest that the hobby is becoming a new asset class target, so if anyone has seen anything, please forward it on, or post it...because it will be great to see what is happening here...the early days of any new frontier are never that well publicized, but once things triclke out to the press, it could make for interesting reading.

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  #28  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:57 AM
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Posted By: Brett

The prices were getting out of hand for e93s and e98s, so I sold off some of them because i'm no longer trying to collect the sets.

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  #29  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:00 PM
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Posted By: E, Daniel

Dan Calandriello is one of the truly great people in the entire hobby of ephemera, and even went so far as to help me out with a couple of 35' Mickey Mouse cards - one of which I had been looking for for years.....and he wouldn't take a dollar for them! The second card was from the VERY tough high # Movie Star series.
Nicer guy you wouldn't meet, and I can certainly vouch that Non sports is a fun, diverse and every bit as deep a pool of vintage card issues as sports.

There Dan, how'd I do

Kindest Regards
Daniel

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Old 04-18-2007, 12:03 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Jason L.,

You've made a good point. I would like to add that because baseball cards and memorabilia are non-traditional assets, it is unlikely that people will wait very long before selling.

If you are the owner of Intel stock you can justify waiting out the downturns because the company is heavily capitalized and there is a growing demand for computer chips. But with baseball cards and memorabilia people will be criticizing you from the beginning. As long as the memorabilia is performing they may give you a slight break, but when there's a downturn people will immediately jump on your back.

I would think that memorabilia and baseball cards because they are nontraditional assets would be quickly sold in a downturn.

Peter

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  #31  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:21 PM
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Posted By: Dan Calandriello

For you Goudey baseball collectors, check this old NS post.
(this will be my last post plugging the NS board)

Enjoy.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/message/1163162755/Goudey+Gum+and++Boston+Gum+Co%2C+collectibles

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  #32  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:25 PM
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Posted By: Bryan Long

Is it only a matter of time before the prices of these cards start to go down? I don't see that happening and maybe that was not your point. Even if prices start to "level out" they are still above the price that I can pay. Are "investors" the one to blame for the high prices that are being paid? Everyone here knows that card collecting has become a business whether the blame goes to auction houses, grading companies or the guy that owns the local card shop down the street. But, what will happen to the hobby when prices drive the true collector away? I know we have talked about this time and time again and I guess I should not have brought this up since it may only rehash what has been said before, but I am being selfish. What happens to me when I no longer can afford to collect cards that I want to collect? Maybe I am thinking, woe is me on this, but I love my family, I love my friends and I love my cards . . . but one of them is slowly getting out of my grasp

.

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  #33  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:29 PM
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Posted By: Jason L

and not the other 2!!!


to your other comment, no, that wasn't my point...if this price surge is being fueled by collectors rather than investors, then the prices will not likely fall, or correct.

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Old 04-18-2007, 12:43 PM
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Default Same old question, but it is killing me!

Posted By: boxingcardman

How appropriate that we have this post on tax day! Writing a big check and hating it...

I have to say, there is quite a bit of wishful thinking going on here. I too am effectively priced out of many of the cards I want to collect, unless I get lucky, unload something I have or swing a trade, but I am not betting on a deep "correction" to get me back in. Let's look at reality. First, economically, the people who have the money to spend on big cards are doing better than ever because they are keeping more of their earnings as the government recklessly borrows its way out of taxing them to maintain current spending. The marginal tax rate (the tax rate on the last dollar earned) on the highest income earners has fallen from a high of 88% in 1963 to the current 35% (for those earning more than $336,550), the marginal tax rate curve has flattened so that people who earn megamillions and people who earn $340K pay the same marginal rate, and capital gains are taxed at an even lower rate. With all that money sloshing around in the hands of the rich because of tax cuts and deficit financing, the richest collectors can afford more toys than ever before. In that climate, I am not surprised that we've seen a continuous march upwards in card prices for years now, despite recessions, terrorist attacks and two wars. If you believe there is going to be some massive drop in the prices of cards because the people who can spend $10,000 on a card without blinking are suddenly going to panic, you are deluding yourselves. Short term, we might see some prices back off on some items as collectors drop interest in those items but overall, I think not, unless the tax system is radically overhauled to return it to a much more progressive structure, which would take the excess spending capacity out of the hands of the wealthy collectors who are driving this market. Second, I just do not see the big pool of coldly rational investors buying up cards that they will drop on the spur of the moment that some people wishfully think must exist. What I do see are lots of very wealthy collectors buying lots of new toys for themselves and some brilliant marketing of some of those toys that appeals to the vanity and competitiveness of those collectors (e.g., the registries). The people who seriously think about selling are middle class and professionals who see that their hobby has become a financial monster or powerhouse (depends on whether you are buying or selling) in which they are increasingly marginalized. And of course those who have a personal issue that more or less forces a sale (but that's always been part of the human condition and is not cause for belief in a market drop).

Some people may shift to postwar cards but I do not see it as having much effct on the prewar market. Again, the reality on the ground dictates what will happen. The two eras are not the same; you can't get a career-issued Ty Cobb from 1948. Also, have you looked at the supply side of the equation? There are so many more postwar cards available than prewar cards that there is a huge supply to eat up before the demand side becomes a factor.

You also have to put it into perspective. Since I am a collector, the money in to cards is not really at issue since I have no intention of unloading my collection before I die. I think perhaps we tend to forget that if you aren't selling short term, it really doesn't matter that the cards you have are increasing in value.

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  #35  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:01 PM
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Default Same old question, but it is killing me!

Posted By: steve

Years ago I dabbled in coins, PCGS graded. You wouldn't believe the prices of rare coins/scarce coins in high grade !!! Coins can be much more expensive than cards.

Yet if you look at PCGS coin pops, generally, higher pops than vintage cards.

Coin collecting is older hobby with more collectors, but I feel has stabilized in collecting base. I feel the vintage card market collecting base is expanding and will continue to expand.

Be wise with vintage cards - demand means a lot - and reap the financial rewards of long term investing, er, excuse me, collecting.

And all you get with a coin is a rare mintmark that reads "S" instead of "D" - other than that they all look alike. Woo Hoo. Cards are way more cool.

Steve.

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  #36  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Posted By: nbrazil

collecting pre war has now become more and more a function of money than anything else. With auction, card show and flea market "finds" becoming more and more things of the past, to collect most pre war sets you need to have the dough to compete with some of the big boys in the hobby. I'm looking at the prices for the recent Robert Edwards Auction and i am blown away by the prices. I can't even afford these cards now...and were still two weeks away from the auction ending date.

You can probably save some money by buying raw or REALLY looking hard (i.e. going to shows, searchin ebay everyday, talking to dealers and collectors)...but even that requires money (travel) and time...which some of us with full time jobs and a family cant afford. This is nothing against collectors with the income to buy anything they want...good for them...but it leaves us average collectors in the dust. It's like the housing market in California!

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Old 04-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Posted By: Scott Elkins

When I was in High School (on a strict budget from working at KFC), I always said that the Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle cards would be the Babe Ruths and Ty Cobbs of the future. I mostly collected 50's and 60's cards then. However, I would buy older cards from time to time (this was before the internet, and there just were not many caramels or t-cards around my area).

Anyway, I have noticed myself recently not buying much b/c of the increase in prices. I can't afford to buy a "bunch" of cards and afford my collection any more. There just aren't too many caramels to be had in the $50-$100 range any longer (the cards I use to buy a lot of, while waiting on cards I really want to appear for sale).

Scott

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  #38  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:40 PM
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Posted By: Alan

Bryan -

I, too, will be going to the National and after gas, hotel cost, parking, show admission, but there's no way I will be able to afford to buy anything at the show. Hell, I'm lucky if I can afford the Network 54 dinner.

I'm treating the National as a "social sports card/memorabilia vacation" meaning that I will enjoy the experience, even if I can't buy anything....

See you at the National...
Alan

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  #39  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:57 PM
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Posted By: E, Daniel


You'll never experience a better time to buy vintage cards than today - unless your earning power increases dramatically enough to make spending the cash less painful. Sure there were deals to be had in years past, just as buying a home in San Diego 10 years ago is a hindsight must. But if you buy now, similarly will others be in wonderment in 10 years time at how they wished they could have bought at a time when things were actually affordable.

Get on while you can, and accept you can afford only what you have means for - and card condition actually allows for this. I guarantee in 5 years your posts will run exactly as Leon's today, in that you'll claim to not be able to buy at that point - what you already own and have collected.



Daniel

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Old 04-18-2007, 01:58 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

You are fooling yourselves if you think the card market will never go down. Let me put it this way, if the card market could never go down Warren Buffett would be out of stocks and invested heavily in baseball cards.

From what I've seen in the past the card market is like any other market, it goes up and it goes down. However, there are two major advantages to it: 1) the market trends up, and 2) there's a backbone of true blue collectors that will buy when there's a sharp downturn. Both of these factors make the card market interesting and possibly profitable.

For those that are priced out of the market, I would just say find your own niche. If you have to buy strip cards. Or heaven forbid, buy the shiny stuff.

Peter

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  #41  
Old 04-18-2007, 02:05 PM
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Posted By: leon

EVERYONE will be able to afford the NET54 dinner. It's not a done deal yet but it looks like we will have a full sponsor. If we don't have one then I would pick up at least half of the whole thing, through banner ad monies. And for anyone that couldn't afford half I would pay for 100%...and they can email me privately about it. More details to come on the Net54 dinner but it is booked for Thursday evening, at the Sheraton, with our own room again. Everyone is invited...even those who don't like me personally or are strongly against the banners. No ill will on my part. Everyone has a right to their opinion.....I just want to collect cards with my Net54 buddies....

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Old 04-18-2007, 02:15 PM
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Posted By: steve

See what I mean about strip cards getting little respect? Many people say, "lower your standards to the strip card market."

I posted day or two ago on this.

In my eyes, I distinguish stip cards into 2 categories: #1 Those corny looking cartoonish colorized things. #2 Real photo, nice looking "supposedly" strip cards like the w575's and w502"s.

Category #2 has huge upside potential. Just my opinion. Anyone have any nice PSA 5+ w502 or w575 upper tier HOFers for sale ?

Steve

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Old 04-18-2007, 02:21 PM
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Posted By: E, Daniel

Any chance of organizing a secondary dinner/get together for the Friday, having had the formal Net54 dinner pulled out from under our later arriving feet?


Daniel

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  #44  
Old 04-18-2007, 02:25 PM
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Posted By: leon

Trust me...the whole freakin' 5 days is like one big "get together"....if you stop by Brockelman's and my booth you will see a lot of regular Net54'ers hanging out....sometimes there will be 10-20 of us there at one time.....Generally, after the shows we just hobble across the street and have a few cold ones at one of the hotel bars...I think Friday is going to be the Mastro auction so my guess is a lot of Net54'ers might be going there....I am looking forward to meeting a lot of new folks this year...take care

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Old 04-18-2007, 03:43 PM
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Posted By: Bryan Long

Is the Mastro Auction by invite only?

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