Jumping the gun on 2020?..

[MyGuyTy]

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1613751#bmb=1

Jeter mania is already running wild, trying to book a hotel room 6 years in advance! Lol. That 2020 induction is gonna be one for the ages. Now starts the immediate spike in ALL things Derek Jeter (memorabilia, cards, autos etc.)

[EvilKing00]

imo way over rated

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

imo way over rated

maybe not "way".....but over rated nonetheless

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

imo way over rated

He is a HOF but I know what you mean. He has benefited from being on great teams and playing in a huge market.

[sycks22]

I agree that he was a really good player, not great. 0 MVP, 1 GG (didn't deserve it). I do like how he respects baseball and never throws helmets and isn't a juicer

[itjclarke]

Jeter is an absolute man and I think when factoring his intangibles is far more valuable than stats alone (even though his stats are very very impressive). Sure his overall legend benefitted from having mega exposure in NYC.. but to that point you've also got give him credit because he's been able to stay/play in full spotlight and under a microscope, during a period there was a lot of general Yankee/Clemens/A-Rod BS, and he never really slipped up personally or professionally. Imagine guys like Mantle, Namath having to live in an era of cell phone cameras and Twitter. Jeter's pulled it off.

[HRBAKER]

Does Jeter get a boost from playing in NY and being on great teams, sure. But at the same time you have to give him credit for doing what he did where he did it.

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I agree that he was a really good player, not great. 0 MVP, 1 GG (didn't deserve it). I do like how he respects baseball and never throws helmets and isn't a juicer

Jeter had 5 Gold Gloves, meaningless though that award may be.

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I agree that he was a really good player, not great. 0 MVP, 1 GG (didn't deserve it). I do like how he respects baseball and never throws helmets and isn't a juicer

Correction, 5 golden gloves, and being rated as the 2nd best SS of all time, I'd say that's pretty damn close to a "great" player. Offensively he's #2 all time behind only Wagner.

[EvilKing00]

I dont agree at all with him being the second best ss ever. Im no card wxpert but i do know baseball stats, and he just isnt 2 all time ss, no way

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I dont agree at all with him being the second best ss ever. Im no card wxpert but i do know baseball stats, and he just isnt 2 all time ss, no way

I think I'll side with the paid professional statistical experts that say you're wrong. Now if we wanna know who the best realty agent of all time is, we'll come calling for you

[MyGuyTy]

Lupica might have nailed it.......

[jiw98]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

imo way over rated

Jeter's current ranking among HOF shortstops:

#1 Runs, #2 Hits(99 behind Wagner), #3 HR, T3 BA, #7 RBI, #3 in fielding %.
JMO but I don't see over rated at all.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by jiw98

Jeter's current ranking among HOF shortstops:

#1 Runs, #2 Hits(99 behind Wagner), #3 HR, T3 BA, #7 RBI, #3 in fielding %.
JMO but I don't see over rated at all.

Seriously! As I'd mentioned earlier, his stats are damn good.. Yet people always seem to overlook that, regardless of which side of the overrated argument you're on. He did little bit of everything (like a Kevin Garnett, Jason Kidd), and on top of that had an incredible intangible "it" factor. I don't care how much statisticians crunch numbers and WARs and VORPs (whatever the hell that is), "it" means a hell of a lot and you see that in any team sport. "It" leads from the front and keeps larger egos in check, "it" always does the right thing and says the right thing at the right times, "it" somehow always finds a way to make the play even if unconventionally (see Jer Giambi play), "it" makes others believers, "it" does more to win than most people give it credit for (seeing the 3rd base thread kills me because I think the "it" is generally ignored in the era of basement statisticians).

Jeter is an all timer, no question.

[Jim65]

Theres a lot to like about Jeter but he is overrated. They actually had a discussion on MLB whether hes in the Top 10 players of all time, which is a joke.

[sebie43]

Im a Tigers fan so I never really liked him, but the numbers dont lie, I think in 10 years this conversation will be laughed at. Its obvious how good he was

[steve B]

Hard to say either way for me.

His earlier career was in an era with a lot of excellent shortstops.
Jeter, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Tejada, Neifi Perez, Barry Larkin, and a bit earlier Cal Ripken.

For a few years, Nomar actually was better, but not after 2000. And he eventually joined Tejada and Rodriguez on the PED list. (Although most likely as an injured player trying to hang on - not that it makes much difference.)

Aside from Rodriguez, none of them managed to stay injury free and productive for anywhere near as long. And somehow miss negative publicity while playing in NY.

Comparing eras is just too difficult. How would Wagner have fielded with a modern glove? Or batted with a livelier ball, a modern lighter bat, and a few more games each year?


So I don't know about "best ever" but best of his era I could go for.

Playing the game "right" is also pretty big to me. I usually have to temper it with an understanding that a guy making 10M + a season might have good reason to avoid crashing into the stands or something like that that might shorten his career.
And he always seemed to just play hard.

And I think he was the guy who answered a question about the fans in Boston getting on him said something like " I love it! it means they think I'm good enough to try to bother me. "
Not every player can take that attitude, some can't handle the scrutiny of playing in either Boston or NY (I haven't followed the Yankees as well, but there's a bunch of players who have been good, come to the Sox and been -average or worse, then left and been good again.)
Jeter managed to both deal with it and in some way enjoy it for a long time.


Steve B

[groundhog]

Originally Posted by MyGuyTy

Lupica might have nailed it.......

What happened to Babe and Gehrig?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by groundhog

What happened to Babe and Gehrig?

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Joe DiMaggio
Yogi Berra
Mickey Mantle

If you asked me to name the most important player in Yankee history, I'd put those guys before I'd ever put Jeter. Great player, but these other guys are legends of the greatest baseball franchise.

Originally Posted by sycks22

I agree that he was a really good player, not great. 0 MVP, 1 GG (didn't deserve it). I do like how he respects baseball and never throws helmets and isn't a juicer

I think Jeter was on the fringe that exists between very good and great. It's very hard to argue against a guy with 3,300 hits and a .312 AVG. But when I see somebody saying he is the second greatest shortstop to ever play the game, I don't agree. I'm sorry. I've got a lot of respect for the man as a player, and especially for how he's carried himself (he is the polar opposite of ARod). But there have been some great, great shortstops, players in their prime who were better players above Jeter. Jeter is high on these lists because has been consistently very good/great. But was he ever the best player in baseball? No. Was he one of the top two or three players in baseball? No. Forget the best player in the game. Was Jeter ever clearly the best shortstop in baseball?

Here's a list of shortstops, in their prime, who I'd take ahead of Jeter (not including Wagner, who I think is universally considered the best to ever play the position):

Ernie Banks
Cal Ripken Jr.
Robin Yount
Troy Tulowitzki
Nomar Garciapara

There have been whispers about Nomar using, but until there's something credible, I'm putting him on this list.

[bigtrain]

I guess I am a rarity...a Yankee fan who doesn't love Derek Jeter. Nevertheless, I have to acknowledge that he is beginning his 20th season and if healthy is likely to pass several players on the all time hits list and finish at 6th just behind Tris Speaker. Also he will have about 350 hits more than any other player with only 20 years of playing time. I have to admit that the guy was a great player.