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View Poll Results: Is it a true variation?
Yes, it should be recognized by collectors and graders. 16 27.59%
Yes, but it isn't significant enough to be recognized. 12 20.69%
No, it's just a printing flaw that affected a few cards. 30 51.72%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 09-07-2018, 05:41 AM
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Owen R
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Default 1955 Topps 'New' Jackie Robinson Variation

Hi everyone,

I just came across this article here: https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...robinson-card/ describing a newly discovered "partial diamond" variation of the Jackie Robinson card in the '55T set. Looking at all the examples they show, it is clear this is definitely a genuine print variation. However, since it is such a minor variation, and was possibly brought about by a slight plate/calibration error (I'm not too educated on the printing process for the set), should it be classed as a variation? The article also shows that SGC has begun recognizing the error.

In addition to this, I remembered reading a similar discussion on here: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=233799 which mentions the Robinson 'variation' and discusses Bob Grim's card having the same issue.

I've added a poll, so everybody can share their stance on the cards' status.

Owen
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Last edited by RaidonCollects; 09-07-2018 at 05:57 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2018, 08:39 AM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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I apologize for the complete lack of enthusiasm, but...... There are likely a THOUSAND similar print variations from the 1950s-1970s Topps issues already discovered and there are likely a 1000 more still waiting to be discovered.

This variation is nothing more than a non-intentional print variation like so many, many others previously "discovered" and posted in the variations thread.


The most likely reason it took until now to notice is that many collectors/dealers don't necessarily have multiple copies of key HOFers such as this to compare to one another, so it takes longer to discover such things on higher profile cards.


This card does not appear to be "rare" by any stretch, just check the completed listings on ebay. There are not only other more well known print variations that are much more rare, there are also other true variations that are far tougher to locate.

FWIW, the article fails to mention some other previously mentioned PRINT variations from the 55 Topps set......see below for a link to Richard D's variation site:

https://sites.google.com/site/richar...riations-lists

Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 09-07-2018 at 08:42 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2018, 08:48 AM
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Disagree. If this was a simple print defect, it's highly unlikely this would have affected multiple print colors (magenta, yellow, and black at a minimum). The fact that it's not just a single color missing makes me think it was an error that was intentionally corrected during the print process.
Kind of has the feel of a cropping difference as well, based on it being on the side of the card where the variation with the corner has yellow all the way to the side, whereas the missing corner the yellow stops where the diamond disappears.
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Last edited by swarmee; 09-07-2018 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:00 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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It's not a printing problem, but it is a difference between two different places on the sheet. Whoever did the mask for the plates just cropped one a bit, but not the other. Probably not intentional, but if we go by intent, then most recognized variations aren't.


I'd call it a variation, others might not.


There probably isn't any great interest in making it cataloged by grading companies etc, as it will have been produced in the same quantity as the other version. Or maybe half as much, it looks like 55 had some cards printed twice on the sheet and others printed 3 times. (And each one is probably at least slightly different)

The 52 Mantle is a double print and variation, and the two different versions while known don't get much attention since either one is just as common.
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:11 AM
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If it's an obvious variation (like this or yellow fingerprint 1972 or streaks in sky 1963), I don't see why it wouldn't be cataloged and distinguished by the grading companies. Is it because Master set collectors wouldn't want to keep having to buy cards when new variations are blessed?
Why do white back/gray back differences get precedence in a master set in some sets, and aren't distinguished in other sets? There's no consistency.

Why doesn't PSA recognize all the different T205 backs by company instead of putting them all into a single bucket? It's definitely not value, because some commons with rare backs might be worth thousands more than ones with common backs. And those backs are fully recognized as different variations.

Maybe SGC sees an underserved niche in the hobby for variation collectors. PSA requires price guides to bless new variations, but SGC has decided they will try to do it themselves. PSA lost out on the Mascot Dog Food Mantle to BGS because they would not slab it without knowing the entire Mascot set listing.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2018, 09:45 AM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Disagree. If this was a simple print defect, it's highly unlikely this would have affected multiple print colors (magenta, yellow, and black at a minimum). The fact that it's not just a single color missing makes me think it was an error that was intentionally corrected during the print process.
Kind of has the feel of a cropping difference as well, based on it being on the side of the card where the variation with the corner has yellow all the way to the side, whereas the missing corner the yellow stops where the diamond disappears.
Not really sure what this disagreement is, but nowhere did the word "simple" get used, but the following was used as a descriptor: "a non-intentional print variation"

The point behind the post was print variations such as this are common and this example, based on previous sales, appears to be far more available than other print variations.


Below in the link to 55 Topps uncut sheets thread, while the Robinson card is hard to see in the image in post #4, it does appear to be on the far left edge of the sheet....this could help explain a variation on the card's left edge. Could have been a piece of tape used during production?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=152506&page=3
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2018, 09:52 AM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
If it's an obvious variation (like this or yellow fingerprint 1972 or streaks in sky 1963), I don't see why it wouldn't be cataloged and distinguished by the grading companies. Is it because Master set collectors wouldn't want to keep having to buy cards when new variations are blessed?
Then should all of the non-intentional print variations on Richard D's list be cataloged and distinguished by grading companies? Where would it ever end?

A card like the 73 Band-Aid Kaline still has not been distinguished by grading companies, so why should yet another card with a non-intentional print variation receive a designation?

If any one person had enough time, some sort of print variation could be found on almost any card.....
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2018, 09:55 AM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
It's not a printing problem, but it is a difference between two different places on the sheet. Whoever did the mask for the plates just cropped one a bit, but not the other. Probably not intentional, but if we go by intent, then most recognized variations aren't.


I'd call it a variation, others might not.


There probably isn't any great interest in making it cataloged by grading companies etc, as it will have been produced in the same quantity as the other version. Or maybe half as much, it looks like 55 had some cards printed twice on the sheet and others printed 3 times. (And each one is probably at least slightly different)

The 52 Mantle is a double print and variation, and the two different versions while known don't get much attention since either one is just as common.

I couldn't tell how many times the JRob card appears on that sheet, but I completely agree it was non-intentional, and based on the number out there, it is either due to the number of times this card appears on the sheet or it's left edge location on the sheet.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2018, 10:33 AM
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Thanks everybody for their opinions. Looks like the poll is in a three way tie at the moment. savedfrommyspokes thanks for the link to the variation site, lots of different variations that I hadn't heard of before.

Owen
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2018, 11:29 AM
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SCD recognized the 52 Mantle, Thompson and Robinsons as variations. Not so PSA. I think the reason they do not get much "attention" is that few master collectors would want to need two of each in their set .

I think DP differences, even if not intentional were a result of intentional acts in the printing process and are variations ( my view only). Is the 55 Robinson a DP ? If not, I would view it as a recurring print defect, and agree that if you pick any card from any Topps set and look hard and long you will eventually find some defect. Some are common and recurring, others scarce.

All are interesting to me. And the hobby has been fairly inconsistent as to what gets formally recognized

I also think it virtually impossible to know for sure whether many or even most recurring print defect were intentionally corrected. I think most were not,

I always enjoy these discussions
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