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[QUOTE=Pat R;2419573]No because just like the player/manager cards that were mixed up from the C-D sheets it was only one half of the A sheet that had the A*B* cards.
Pat, Im confused, are you saying that A*B* cards were printed on sheets with 50% A* cards? I cant see the photo clearly so forgive me if that is what you are showing here, this doesn't look like a bold 40th sheet which is what those cards were printed on. Do you have a photo of an uncut sheet with A*B* cards?
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 03-13-2024 at 07:34 PM. |
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[QUOTE=jacksoncoupage;2419647]
Quote:
Hi Dylan, are you saying that you think the layout for the bold 40th sheet and the A*B* sheet were different than this A sheet? These should be better images of the front and back. All of the confirmed A*B* subjects are on the top half of the sheet. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] |
#3
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[QUOTE=Pat R;2419667]
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The A*B* cards are all printed with bold 40th logo. What I am trying to understand is if/why Topps would produce an A* sheet that is 50% A* and 50% A*B* cards. It seems to reason that the A*B* variation would affect all 132 cards on the sheet. What this means is:
Are you referring to Daryl Boston's card or is there a different one per factory set? Boston is the only player who can be found regularly with A*B* and a non-bold 40th logo on back.
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 03-14-2024 at 03:16 PM. |
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[QUOTE=jacksoncoupage;2419814][QUOTE=Pat R;2419667]
No, the layout would be the same for a Bold 40th logo A* sheet. The A*B* cards are all printed with bold 40th logo. What I am trying to understand is if/why Topps would produce an A* sheet that is 50% A* and 50% A*B* cards. It seems to reason that the A*B* variation would affect all 132 cards on the sheet. What this means is:
Admittedly I have no idea how Topps printed the sheets but some of the variations do give us some indication of how they might have been printed. I don't know why they would have only printed the A*B* code on half the sheet but I do think that's what they did. I know they are scarce but I think it's beyond coincidence that all of the cards on the top half of the sheet minus the managers are confirmed with an A*B* sheet code and none of the cards on the bottom half have been confirmed with an A*B* code plus you have the same thing with the reversed backs on the C-D sheet that only affected the bottom of those two sheets. As far as the layouts I think it stayed the same for most if not all of the printing of the sheets for the base cards. After I found the Bob Melvin RPD I also found a Donnie Hill with the same RPD. They are both found with bold and non bold logos and are in the same location on their sheets with Hill on the 5th card up on the right edge of the A sheet and Melvin in the same location on the B sheet. 91 Topps Melvin-Hill.jpg 91 Topps Melvin-Hill location.jpg |
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[QUOTE=Pat R;2419828][QUOTE=jacksoncoupage;2419814]
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It seems like you are onto something with A*B* cards. Its just so bizarre to me that only 1/2 the sheet would get it but I understand why you think so, it sure is looking that way. I wish I had kept better track of the A*B* cards as they turned up, I had just assumed this entire time that all A* cards got the A*B* treatment at some point in the production run. This means that I'll have to take another look at my bold logo cards since whenever I opened product and got them, I'd look at the first A* player and if it didnt have the A*B*, I wouldn't flip the rest over. And thats another interesting find on the Hill, I'll update the list. Now I'm wondering if it affected all six sheets (Reardon, Osuna and Bergman don't seem to have this variation...). Lots of great work Pat, I think a those of us who dig this strange set really appreciate this!
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 03-14-2024 at 07:20 PM. |
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A few thoughts on the *A*B cards.
The process was still very manual, I believe it changed in 92, but the 91s are all a familiar process. Repeated text would have been done one of a couple ways. The camera ready art could have the common lines of text pasted in place, with the parts that weren't needed simply cut out. Or it was blocked on the mask as that part was being set up. (More like the text was all there, and blocked by the mask material and the appropriate bits cut away to reveal the text. ) Topps most probably did a half sheet of camera ready art at a time. If you notice, the *A only has a space between it and the rest of the text. So they would have slipped up on the first section of *A sheet and exposed the entire *A*B etc. Once they decided to fix it, it would be a simple matter of blocking it out with the special red whiteout used in the stripping dept. It could be fixed on the plate itself, but I would expect they just figured on fixing it when they made another plate for Blue on the back. Otherwise we'd probably see a handful of repairs or incomplete erasures. |
#7
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[QUOTE=jacksoncoupage;2419844][QUOTE=Pat R;2419828]
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There seem to be 3 or 4 different groups that a particular variation can be placed in and I think that had to do with the printing stages that can be broken down into A-B-C or A-B-C-D. What I mean by that is I think each printing was kind of like an assembly line. I really only collected baseball cards and a very small amount of football cards back then so I don't know the timeframe on the basketball and hockey that well. I know topps printed a wide variety of cards but if I'm not mistaken the 4 sports were their biggest volume. The 91 baseball printing probably started when they were in the middle to the end of either the 90 basketball or hockey printing and that's where I think the A printing of the 91 baseball started before moving to to the B and possibly C printing when the 90 basketball or hockey was finishing up. When the 91 football printing got in full swing that's when the C and or D period of the 91 baseball printing stage started. I think that's where the variations are broken down into groups with the scarce variations printed in either the A or C/D stage and the common variations were printed in between. The #21 Joe Morgan card is a good example of the different stages. there are 3 or 4 different variations I think I have one where the top of the 1 is clipped off but I couldn't locate it to see if it is the "tilted" or regular printed variation but either way I think it was just a period where there was some kind of obstruction for a short period during one of those printings. The 87 hits was printed during the A stage and it is actually scarce enough that it might have shared that stage with the "tilted" 1 variation. I think the "tilted" variation was printed during part of the B stage and possibly the A stage also before the correction was made and the regular 187 was printed for the remainder of the printing. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] While looking for the clipped variation I found the higher 1 variation that I had forgot about. I had it with some other early variations so I think it might have been the first 187 variation. img538.jpg I also noticed that the tilted 1 variation has a bunch of lines in the inner pink areas that the other variations don't have. I will have to check and see if all of the tilted 1's have these. img534 - Copy.jpg Last edited by Pat R; 03-15-2024 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Added the higher 1 and tilted 1 with lines info |
#8
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Amazing stuff, but I am sticking with just my 2 versions of Morgan
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