Fantasy Football…. Circa 1930s

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hi All,

With week 1 of fantasy football now in the books, it reminded me of something I did for fun and posted on another forum…. I hope someone else enjoys reading it or even better wants to discuss with me. And if anyone has some images to post, to help keep me from getting kicked to the watercooler section, I won’t object. I would argue its somewhat relevant to the hobby as the 30s has some players that we collect and sometimes its fun just to think about the history behind the cards…

Finally, please note, this is a 100% subjective exercise, heck it came out different each of the two times I did it - and I’m the same person! I got the idea from someone who made their own all-decade teams on a football (non-hobby) forum, but added some twists to it. (Sadly, there was zero interest in the 20s-50s, once Jim Brown came up, there was some discussion from what I recall) My twist was the fantasy draft - I’d rather make 6 teams than just one and its fun too because I did it just like a draft - for every pick I asked myself, what do I want this team to look like, what does it need, etc.

Without further ado:

Ground Rules:

-5 coaches plus myself, I took the last pick and randomly ordered the other 5

-draft consists of 13 rounds, teams must fill each of the 11 starting positions first. Once all 11 starting slots are filled, 2 reserves are chosen i.e. no hoarding players to keep others from getting them

-the order reverses in each round so with my 6th pick in round 1, I’ll also get the first pick in round 2

-the player pool consists of all players who played at least 3 seasons from 1930-1939 (used profootball reference to confirm this). Three was an arbitrary choice - two seemed like it was too few and four seemed like too many given a lot of guys from this era had short careers as they moved on to coaching or better paying jobs.

-the year of the player chosen will be specified which explains why the guys who are at the tail end of their careers will likely be picked later in the draft

-I’m not going to be a stickler regarding side of the field. Thus 2 ends, 2 tackles, 2 guards regardless of left v. right. The backs (esp. WB/RH) may be placed in positions that weren’t necessarily their primary positions, but nothing absurd/unrealistic and such deviations will be explained.

-Defense matters, but will be kept simple. All teams will play a 6-2-2-1 where the ends are on the line of scrimmage and the C and FB are the linebackers. Deviations will be explained.

-Finally, no player coaches. This only impacts Steve Owen who would've been drafted as a tackle were he not a coach.

Participants:

Team George Halas (T formation/Balanced Line, QB replaces BB, RH replaces WB)

Team Potsy Clark (Single Wing/UnBalanced Line)

Team Steve Owen (Single Wing/UnBalanced Line)

Team Curly Lambeau (Balanced Line, Since there is evidence that Lambeau split Hutson and Blood out like modern WRs, I’m going to use the terminology TB, BB, FB, WB, SE, SE for this team)

Team Eddie Casey (The least well known of the coaches, other than myself, but selected on strength of his 240 Tips) (Balanced Line, Since there is evidence the Redskins used a formation similar to a SG 4WR set with Baugh, I’m going to use the terminology QB, FB, E, E, WB, WB)

My Team (Single Wing/UnBalanced Line)

[TanksAndSpartans]

Round 1

1 (Lambeau): Don Hutson E (36 - Led his team to the title and led the league in all major receiving categories. Lambeau wants a passing game and this is the most unique player in the draft. Defensively, he’ll be used as a HB, so Lambeau will be on the lookout for someone to line up at DE)

2 (Casey): Sammy Baugh QB (37 - Led his team to the title as a rookie and had possibly the best game of his career in the championship game)

3 (Clark): Dutch Clark TB (36 - lead NFL in scoring (73 points), third in the league in rushing (628 yards), and tops in passing percentage; Potsy would’ve taken Dutch even with the #1 pick)

4 (Halas): Benny Friedman QB (30 - Unofficially threw for 1246 yards; Halas wants someone who can run the T and feels Benny is his best candidate; not having to play TB should prolong his career)

5 (Owen): Bronko Nagurski FB (34 - helped lead his team to an undefeated regular season finishing fourth in rushing himself while often leading the way for the first ever 1000 yard rusher and all this while remaining a dominant LB on defense)

6 (Me): Mel Hein C (38 - So consistent - could have chosen any of his seasons, but this was a championship MVP season)

Round 2

1 (Me): Bill Hewitt E (33 - Receiving numbers won’t wow anyone, but very solid end who I’m hoping justifies this pick with his defense; Looking for the speed off the edge, TFLs and Sacks that oral history suggest; Despite false start accusations, he’s the player from the era I’ve read the most about being a disruptive force in the opponent’s backfield)

2 (Owen): Arnie Herber TB (36 - Led league in passing while leading his team to the title)

3 (Halas): Cal Hubbard T (30 - His combination of size, speed, and reputation for toughness make him the second lineman off the board)

4 (Clark): Turk Edwards T (34 - Should make a nice cornerstone for Potsy’s rushing attack)

5 (Casey): Johnny Blood WB (31 - arguably his best season, his unofficial six interceptions augment his league-leading totals of receptions, yardage and touchdowns; He’ll be asked to run reverses, be a primary target for Baugh, and cover some of the other great receivers on defense and hopefully keep the partying under control)

6 (Lambeau): Glenn Presnell TB (33 - Curley needs someone to lead his offense and get the ball to Hutson and Presnell seems like the perfect fit; First non-HOFer off the board; His 33 season gives a glimpse of what could’ve been had he not started his career with the Tanks and then played in Dutch Clark’s shadow - 2nd in the league in passing yards and TDs, 4th in yards rushing, unofficially 2nd in interceptions. Possesses all the intangibles - leadership, clutch performance, etc.

Round 3

1 (Lambeau): Clarke Hinkle FB (36 - Best LB still on the board and will be a solid contributor at FB an K as well)

2 (Casey): Mike Michalske G (30 - Casey likes explosive players and what Iron Mike lacks in size, he makes up for in speed and power)

3 (Clark): Dan Fortmann G (38)

4 (Halas): Wayne Millner E (37 - 9-179 in 37 championship, Should be Friedman’s go to receiver, also great blocker and defender)

5 (Owen): Joe Stydahar T (37)

6 (Me): George Musso G (37)

Round 4

1 (Me): Beattie Feathers (34 - First HB off the board is non-HOFer and a bit of a surprise, but this is what fantasy is about - his 34 season looks like video game stats - the biggest fantasy of all may be what could’ve been had he never gotten hurt; I’m going to use him as a FB in my offensive formation, but he won’t be playing LB on defense)

2 (Owen): Link Lyman T (30 - very smart player esp. on defense who was still a force even in his 9th season)

3 (Halas): Cliff Battles HB (37 - won his second rushing title and helped his team to a title; will be the feature back in this offense and with his good hands, a solid outlet for Friedman)

4 (Clark): Ken Strong FB (34 - sneakers game; A solid runner and receiver to stand next to Dutch in the single wing. He’ll be playing halfback on defense so a LB is still needed)

5 (Casey): Ernie Caddel WB (36 - 580 yards rushing, 6.4 per carry and 3rd in the league in receiving - a non-HOFer who played in a crowded backfield, may have been the greatest pure WB of all-time. Considering where Cadell lined up, a modern day comparison would be Percy Harvin finishing in the top 8 in the league in rushing. Four times. Caddel didn’t get a lot of carries out on the wing, but the ones he got, he sure made the most of. In 35, he was 2nd in the league in rushing, but led the league in yds from scrimmage and all-purpose yards. Averaged 5.2 yards per carry in his career; not used extensively as a receiver in the run first offenses he played in, but should make perfect complement to Blood here with Baugh tossing him some catchable passes

6 (Lambeau): George Christensen T (33)

Round 5

1 (Lambeau): Ox Emerson G (32)

2 (Casey): Ace Gutowsky FB (36) Instead of being immortalized with the likes of Steve Van Buren, Joe Perry, Jim Brown, and Walter Payton, Gutowsky largely remains another forgotten Spartan as a result of a statistical revision which took away his all all-time career rushing record. Got close to a single season rushing title in 36 when he finished 3 yards short. North-South workhorse back and hard hitting linebacker. Should minimize need for Baugh to carry the ball and maximize passing game’s effectiveness by wearing down the defense.

3 (Clark): Walt Kiesling G (30)

4 (Halas): Red Grange RH (31 - Halas feels the 20s weren’t necessarily Grange’s best decade. He unofficially led the league in rushing in 31 and developed himself into a great defensive player. Should be a solid outlet for Friedman as well. Grange always said that after he hurt his knee in 1927 he was “just another back”, but there are statistics that indicate otherwise.)

5 (Owen): Lavvie Dilweg E (30 - among leaders in receiving and interceptions in this championship season; underrated player who was one of the best 2-way ends of his era; 4th E off the board)

6 (Me): Red Badgro E (31 - not flashy, but solid 2-way contributor that will fit in well on a run first team)

Round 6

1 (Me): Father Lumpkin BB (30 - unofficially 3rd in the league in rushing with 562 yards as a rookie, but spent the rest of his career as a blocking back. He is the perfect complement to Feathers for me as he can play linebacker on defense and rotate to FB in short yardage situations. Also a good receiving option out of the backfield and a fan favorite; deservedly first BB off the board)

2 (Owen): Shipwreck Kelly WB (33 - led league in receptions; solid all-around back who should fit well in this offense running reverses and catching passes)

3 (Halas): Bo Molenda FB (31 - Unofficially 4th leading rusher in 31; May be better remembered as a BB, but was a solid runner early in his career; should be a good fit as T FB)

4 (Clark): Clare Randolph C (35 - solid pick at a key position, should be good chemistry with his longtime TB and coach)

5 (Casey): Joe Kopcha G (33)

6 (Lambeau): Charley Malone E (37 - should be a dynamic target for Presnell and draw some attention away from Hutson)

Round 7

1 (Lambeau): Ookie Miller C (33)

2 (Casey): Eggs Manske E (38 - should make for another nice target for Baugh)

3 (Clark): Tuffy Leemans RH (36 - led league in rushing as a rookie, will have to start at WB, but there will be plenty of opportunities for him to run reverses and rotate to FB in this run first offense, probably the steal of the draft to get a HOFer in the 7th round)

4 (Halas): Ray Flaherty E (32 - led league in receiving, Halas wants to pick up an all around end and he thinks he’ll be able to cooperate with Ray rather than butt heads even though Flaherty is a solid coach in his own right)

5 (Owen): Joe Carter E (38 - dependable option for Herber)

6 (Me): Swede Hanson RH (34 - I’m happy to get a back of this quality (800+ yards in 34) this late in the draft. He’ll start at RH, but can rotate to FB to spell Feathers.

Round 8

1 (Me): Len Grant T (32)

2 (Owen): Butch Gibson G (31)

3 (Halas): Zuck Carlson G (32)

4 (Clark): Milt Gantenbein E (36, solid two way end, made all-pro and caught a TD in the 36 championship game)

5 (Casey): Luke Johnsos E (32)

6 (Lambeau): Hank Bruder BB (35 - Will play E on defense allowing Hutson to play HB)

Round 9

1 (Lambeau): Buckets Goldenberg G (39)

2 (Casey): Frank Bausch C (36)

3 (Clark): George Kenneally E (30 - Solid blocker for Potsy’s system)

4 (Halas): Potsy Jones G (34)

5 (Owen): Leland Shaffer BB (38)

6 (Me): Johnny Dell Isola G (37)

Round 10

1 (Me): Ernie Smith T (36)

2 (Owen): Herman Hickman G (33)

3 (Halas): Chuck Cherundolo C (38)

4 (Clark): Lou Gordon T (33)

5 (Casey): Bill Morgan T (34)

6 (Lambeau): Armand Niccolai T (35)

Round 11

1 (Lambeau): Dale Burnett WB (33)

2 (Casey): Jim MacMurdo T (36)

3 (Clark): Riley Smith BB (37, solid unsung contributor to championship team, will play LB on defense allowing Ken Strong to play defensive HB)

4 (Halas): Ade Schwammel T (35)

5 (Owen): George Svendsen C (36)

6 (Me): Harry Newman TB (33 - short career, but MVP type season in 33)

**All Starters Picked**
**Start 2 rounds of Reserves**

Round 12

1 (Me): Ed Danowski TB (38, 2-2 in championship games, solid backup, should be competitive for playing time)

2 (Owen): Ralph Kercheval B (34 - capable of winning a game with his foot, also a solid receiver)

3 (Halas): Carl Brumbaugh B (34, Someone to backup Friedman and help him with the T)

4 (Clark): Harry Ebding E (34, a familiar target for Clark)

5 (Casey): Bill Lee L (35)

6 (Lambeau): Jim Musick B (33 - Rushing Champion)

Round 13

1 (Lambeau): Bernie Masterson QB (37, Solid backup for Presnell)

2 (Casey): Jack Manders B (34, solid K who may be able to win a game with a clutch FG and spell any of the backs as well)

3 (Clark): Keith Molesworth B (32, can spell Clark as a runner or passer)

4 (Halas): George Trafton L (30, only credited with 6 starts during his 3 seasons in the 30s, but Halas believes there is enough gas in the tank for a reserve role)

5 (Owen): Hap Moran (30, solid player who can fill in at any backfield position and is always a big play threat. During the 30 season, in a game that was expected to settle the championship (Giants v. Packers), his 84-yard run set up the game winning one-yard plunge.)

6 (Me): Russ Letlow G (38)

[TanksAndSpartans]

I summarized the results by team below to make them more readable. I included their draft round and overall selection position in parenthesis. How would you rank the teams 1-6?

Team Lambeau

TB Presnell (2-12)
FB Hinkle (3-13)
BB Bruder (8-48)
WB Burnett (11-61)
SE Hutson (1-1)
SE Malone (6-36)
—
RT Christensen (4-24)
RG Emerson (5-25)
C Miller (7-37)
LG Goldenberg (9-49)
LT Niccolai (10-60)

Reserves: Musick B (12-72), Masterson QB (13-73)
Special Teams: Presnell, Hinkle, and Niccolai provide a strong kicking game

Team Casey

QB Baugh (1-2)
FB Gutowsky (5-26)
WB Blood (2-11)
WB Caddel (4-23)
—
RE Johnsos (8-47)
RT MacMurdo (11-62)
RG Kopcha (6-35)
C Bausch (9-50)
LG Michalske (3-14)
LT Morgan (10-59)
LE Manske (7-38)

Reserves: Lee L (12-71), Manders B (13-74)
Special Teams: Baugh was known as a great punter and Jack Manders as a great kicker

Team P. Clark

TB D. Clark (1-3)
FB Strong (4-22)
BB Smith (11-63)
WB Leemans (7-39)
—
RE Gantenbein (8-46)
RT Gordon (10-58)
LT Edwards (2-10)
RG Kiesling (5-27)
C Randolph (6-34)
LG Fortmann (3-15)
LE Kenneally (9-51)

Reserves: Ebding E (12-70), Molesworth B (13-75)
Special Teams: Dutch Clark, Ken Strong, and Riley Smith were consistently among the league leaders in all aspects of the kicking game

Team Halas

QB Friedman (1-4)
LH Battles (4-21)
FB Molenda (6-33)
RH Grange (5-28)
—
RE Flaherty (7-40)
RT Schwammel (11-64)
RG Jones (9-52)
C Cherundolo (10-57)
LG Carlson (8-45)
LT Hubbard (2-9)
LE Millner (3-16)

Reserves: Brumbaugh B (12-69), Trafton L (13-76)
Special Teams: Benny Friedman will handle the kicking and punting duties

Team Owen

TB Herber (2-8)
FB Nagurski (1-5)
BB Shaffer (9-53)
WB Kelly (6-32)
—
RE Carter (7-41)
RT Lyman (4-20)
LT Stydahar (3-17)
RG Hickman (10-56)
C Svendsen (11-65)
LG Gibson (8-44)
LE Dilweg (5-29)

Reserves: Kercheval B (12-68), Moran B (13-77)
Special Teams: Kelly will punt and they will try to sub Kercheval into the game for FG

Team Me

TB Newman (11-66)
FB Feathers (4-19)
BB Lumpkin (6-31)
WB Hanson (7-42)
—-
RE Hewitt (2-7)
RT Smith (10-55)
LT Grant (8-43)
RG Dell Isola (9-54)
C Hein (1-6)
LG Musso (3-18)
LE Badgro (5-30)

Reserves: Danowski B (12-67), Letlow L (13-78)
Special Teams: Newman will handle the kicking duties

[TanksAndSpartans]

A couple of final things I wanted to share:

-Just looking at the bolded players from the 1935 National Chicle set…. 21 from one issue from a single year out of the 78 players I chose for the entire decade is pretty darn good. Granted they didn’t project any stars (Stan Kostka was a can’t miss prospect who missed), but with only 35 active NFL players in the set, I’m impressed more than half stood the test of time.

Looking back at rounds 1-7, I would say they missed having a card on: Mel Hein, Bill Hewitt, Arnie Herber, Johnny Blood, Mike Michalske, George Musso, Link Lyman, George Christensen (included as a premium), Ox Emerson, Ace Gutowsky (included as a premium), Walt Kiesling, Red Grange (included as a premium), Red Badgro, Father Lumpkin, Joe Kopcha, Charley Malone, Ookie Miller, Ray Flaherty, Joe Carter, and Swede Hanson.

Among those 20, 3 had premiums and who knows how many may have been included in the 3rd release of cards had there ever been one….

-Finally, in terms of research, I found a great PFRA article on blocking backs. It was an unsung position for sure - Father Lumpkin was in there, but I’d never heard of Hank Bruder, Riley Smith, or Leland Shaffer. And I always enjoy an article about unsung players and in this case, an entire unsung position.

[jefferyepayne]

Very cool project, John. I'll mull it over and put together some comments / discussion points I see.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Great! Thanks Jeff - looking forward to it.