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  #1  
Old 05-27-2016, 07:09 PM
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Default Bee Hive hockey cards.

Just finished snapping a few pics of my Beehives.

I know very little about these so any info about them would be greatly appreciated.

There are 247 in total and 5 envelopes that the cards came in back in the day.

Some pics look older than others, (the era) but I could be wrong?

Last edited by irv; 04-05-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2016, 06:58 AM
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Beehives are great--and you have a nice collection there. The overall condition looks good too. They were released in three different series/groups between the 1930s and the 1960s, so yes, some will look different than others depending on the group. You have group I and group II (group III Beehives have a brown wood grain border).

The value varies widely, with some only worth a few dollars and others worth much more. Often the more obscure players are the most valuable. And to further complicate things some players had variations in their photo that can make some variations very rare--and thus, more valuable.

Contact me if you are looking to sell, as I would be interested in knowing more about them.

Last edited by boysblue; 05-28-2016 at 07:05 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2016, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boysblue View Post
Beehives are great--and you have a nice collection there. The overall condition looks good too. They were released in three different series/groups between the 1930s and the 1960s, so yes, some will look different than others depending on the group. You have group I and group II (group III Beehives have a brown wood grain border).

The value varies widely, with some only worth a few dollars and others worth much more. Often the more obscure players are the most valuable. And to further complicate things some players had variations in their photo that can make some variations very rare--and thus, more valuable.

Contact me if you are looking to sell, as I would be interested in knowing more about them.
Thanks for the info, Boysblue.

Any idea where I can look to find out this info? I did a bit of reading last night and found a few names of cards that were valuable, (none I have that I can see?) but the info seemed quite old and outdated?

Are the pics the main thing that gets judged for condition or is that also based on the paper/matting they are attached to?

I posted some info at vintagehockeyforum and they have received some interest for sure but I am unsure, at this point, what I am going to do with them?

Thanks again.

Last edited by irv; 05-28-2016 at 07:19 AM.
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2016, 04:16 AM
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Best bet for pricing is the Charlton Price Guide, which contains a list of every card Beehive manufactured as well as a value. I see you live in Canada--southern Ontario by any chance? If so, let me know as I have a guide you can have.
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  #5  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boysblue View Post
Best bet for pricing is the Charlton Price Guide, which contains a list of every card Beehive manufactured as well as a value. I see you live in Canada--southern Ontario by any chance? If so, let me know as I have a guide you can have.
Yes, I am in Southern Ontario, Oshawa to be exact. Where about's are you?
(PM if you prefer?)

Thanks for the offer. That would be great to have!
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:33 AM
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Charlton is outdated I would think, they haven't published in years. The current standard is Bobby Burrell's guide; the 2nd edition came out a couple of months ago: http://vintagehockeycollector.com/
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
Charlton is outdated I would think, they haven't published in years. The current standard is Bobby Burrell's guide; the 2nd edition came out a couple of months ago: http://vintagehockeycollector.com/
Thanks, Topcat.

That's good to know.

Here's the list I completed for my Leaf cards. SP refers to spelling, not short print in this case as I am having trouble reading their signatures.
Any info on these would be appreciated.

Harold Cotton, Leafs
Bill Thoms, Leafs
Walter Broda, Leafs
Gus Marker, Leafs
Morph Chamberlain, Leafs
Harvey Jackson, Leafs
Don Metz, Leafs
Dave Shriner, Leafs
Normie Mann, Leafs
Pete Langelle, Leafs
Jack Church, Leafs
Lex Chisholm, Leafs
Jimmie Fowler, Leafs
Red Heron, Leafs
Bill Kendall, Leafs (Name printed, not signed)
Doc Rommes, Leafs
Hank Goldup, Leafs
Buck MacDonald, Leafs
Reg Hamittey, Leafs (SP?)
Gord Drillon, Leafs (sp?)
Walter Stanowski, Leafs
Joe Primeau, Leafs
King Clancy, Leafs
Ghas, W, Conacher, Leafs (sp?)
Syl Apps, Leafs
Jack Shill, Leafs
Bob Davidson, Leafs
Nick Metz, Leafs
F B Finnigan, Leafs
George Armstrong, Leafs (sp?)
Art Jackson, Leafs
Rudolph Kampman, Leafs
Pep Kelly, Leafs
Jim Aollett, Leafs. (sp?)
Red Conner, Leafs (sp?)
Phil Stein, Leafs
Billy Taylor, Leafs
Harry Lumley, Leafs
Al Rollins, Leafs
George Armstron, Leafs
Eric Nesterenko, Leafs
Johnny McCormack, Leafs
Bob Bailey, Leafs
Gord Hannigan, Leafs
Danny Lewicki, Leafs
Hugh Bolton, Leafs
Leo Boivin, Leafs

Last edited by irv; 05-30-2016 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Adding Leafs player list.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2016, 07:50 AM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
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Irv- There is a tremendous website dedicated to the Beehives with tons of photos and info.

www.beehive.com I think it is called the Beehive museum.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2016, 07:52 AM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
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I messed up!

www.beehivehockey.com
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2016, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
Thanks HSB, I am aware of that site and have looked/referenced it from time to time but it was last updated in 2010.

I haven't devoted much time to getting my cards cataloged and with it now being summer, I'm likely not going to be able to get back at it (fully) until the fall?

From what I have learned so far, I don't believe I have any high value cards/short printed ones but I do have a pile of these to go through yet.

Thanks again.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:00 PM
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Finally finished cataloging all my Beehives!

During the process, I came across a signed Dit Clapper card!
I called my Father and he thought there was one more card, Syl Apps, that was also signed, but I looked at it, plus all the others and the Dit Clapper is the only signed card I seen.
I know it's real as does my Father but where would I send/go to to get it authenticated?
(All cards came signed/printed from the factory. His signature is above the factory one)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1651.jpg (56.0 KB, 223 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1652.jpg (72.0 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1653.jpg (70.5 KB, 225 views)
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:07 PM
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And now my finished lists.

Seen some anomalies but I am unsure exactly what they mean as far as rarity/value go?
When it mentions "Photo not available" that refers to the link I used to help me figure my cards out. http://www.beehivehockey.com/

Beehive's NY Americans and NY Rangers

NY Americans.

Pat Egan GRP-1’s
Bill Benson
Ralph Wycherly (Name error. Norman Larson is incorrect)
Norman Larson (Name error. Ralph Wycherly is incorrect)
Squee (Viv) Allen
Al Murray
Art Chapman
Nels Stewart
Lorne Carr
Jim Klein
Eddie Wiseman
Roy Worters
Earl Robertson
Pete Slobodian
Wilfy Field
Tom Anderson
Peanuts O”Flaherty

New York Rangers GRP-1’s

Ott Heller
Frank Boucher (Pic shows red background, mine is white?)
Dave Kerr
Ivan Johnson
Phil Watson
Art Coulter
Bill Cook
Mac Colville
Neal Colville
Cecil Dillon
Babe Pratt
Alex Shibicky
Dutch Hiller
Bobby Kirk
Joe Cooper
Alf Pike
Clint Smith
Kilby Macdonald
Bryon Hextall SR
Murray (Muzz) Patrick
Lynn Patrick

NY Ranger GRP-2

Johnny Bower (No photo available)
Billy Dea (No photo available)
Ian Cushenan
Andy Hebenton
Ed Cullman
Nick Mickoski
Dean Prentice (home/dark sweater)
Wally Hergesheimer
Chuck Rayner
Duncan Fisher
Don Raleigh
Allan Stanley
Edgar Laprade
Frank Eddolls
Pat Egan (Photo not available)
Ed Slowinski
Buddy O’Connor
Tony Leswick

Montreal Maroons and CDN's.

Hooley Smith GRP-1’s
Bob Gracie
Jerry Shannon
Alex Connell
Cy Wentworth
Herb Cain
Des Smith
Bill Beveridge

Montreal CDN’s GRP-1’s

Walt Buswell
Jack Portland
Tony Demers
Jack Adams
Wilf Cude
Elmer Lach (Action pose)
Toe Blake
Joe Benoit
John Quilty
Doug Young (Says Rice copyright by his left shin?)
Red Goupille
Alex Singbush
P. (Polly) Drouin
Bert Gardiner
Tony Graboski
Ken Reardon (Name spelled Ken)

Montreal CDN’s GRP-2

Gerry Mcneil
Bernard Geoffrion
Dick Gamble
Jean Beliveau
Dick Moore
Dollard St Laurent
Ken Mosdell
Joe Carveth (No photo available)

Last edited by irv; 06-12-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:11 PM
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Boston Bruins. GRP-1

Dit Clapper (This card is also signed but not authenticated)
Peggy (Jim) O’Neil
Frank Brimsek (In net pose)
Red Hamill
Eddie Shore
Alex Motter
Johnny (Jack) Crawford (Sweater #19)
Bobby Bauer
Milt Schmidt
Woody Dumart (Name spelled “W”)
Cooney Weiland
Ray Getliffe
Bill Cowley
Bun Cook
Melvin Hill
Tiny Thompson
Jack Shewchuk
Charlie Sands
Roy Conacher

Jack Gelineau GRP-2
Real Chevrefils
Sugar Jim Henry
Doug Mohns
Bill Quackenbush
Ken Smith
John Peirson (Name spelled John)
Woody Dumart
Fernie Flaman (SP-2 Photo not available?)
Ed Sandford
Paul Ronty
Murray Henderson
Dave Creighton (White background)
Jack McIntyre (No photo available)
Zellio Toppazzini (No photo available)
Leo Labine

Chicago Black Hawks

Lorne Chabot GRP-1
Mush March
Philip Hergesheimer
Paul Goodman
Goldy (Leroy) Goldsworthy
Sam Lo Presti
Doug Bentley (Action pose)
Michael Karakas
Johnnie Gottselig
Bill Carse
Glenn Brysdon
Cully Dahlstrom
Johnny Chad
Art Wiebe
Louis Trudell
Bob Carse
Earl Seibert

Al Dewsbury GRP-2
Harry Lumley (Photo not available)
Al Rollins (Photo not available)
Jim Henry
Bill Gadsby
Jim Conacher
Pat Lundy (Photo not available)
Gus Bodnar
Pete Babando
Bep Guidolin
Doug Bentley
Adam Brown
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2016, 06:13 PM
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And Detroit to close it out. Really glad to see I have a Gordie Howe!!

Johnny Mowers GRP-1
Don Grosso
Herbie Lewis
Martin Barry
Carl Liscombe
Ebbie Goodfellow
Laurence Aurie
Gord Pettinger
Eddie Wares
Archie Wilder
Les Douglas
Ralph Bowman
Joe Carveth
Gus Geisebrecht
Jack Keating
Ken Kilrea
Mud (Madere) Bruneteau
Jimmy Orlando
John Sorrell
Hector Kilrea
Sydney Howe
Jack Stewart
Sid Abel
Norman Smith

Warren Godfrey GRP-2 and all below this point are Group 2’s
Red Kelly
Clare Martin
Marty (Martin) Pavelich
Steve Black (Photo not available?)
Gaye Stewart (Photo not available?)
Fred Glover
Leo Reise JR
Earl Reibel
Bill Dineen
Ben Woit
Terry Sawchuk (NB-No Blade visible)
Bill Delvecchio (Name error, Bill is incorrect. Should be Alex)
Glen Skov
Vic Stasiuk (home, dark sweater, stick blade not visible)
Bob Goldham
Johnny Wilson
Marcel Pronovost
Jimmy Peters (SR. No photo available?)
Tony Leswick (No photo available?)
Metro Prystai
George Gee
Jerry Couture
Jimmy McFadden
Leo (Lidio) Fogolin
Ted Lindsay
Syd Abel
Gordie Howe (Home/dark sweater)
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File Type: jpg IMG_1656.jpg (69.6 KB, 223 views)

Last edited by irv; 06-12-2016 at 06:15 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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Anyone know why the Beehive site above is off line? It's going on a month or more now.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2016, 06:23 PM
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PSA still grading Beehives?

Noticed this and never knew they once did or still do?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Beehive...8AAOSwbsBXk6gp
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2016, 06:42 PM
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The Dit Clapper appears good to me. No sense getting it authenticated. If it's real, it's always real. Adding a sticker to it doesn't make it any better. Nice piece and set by the way. On the same note, I am always looking for signed John Mariucci items especially from this set if anyone has one. Take care, Jason
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
The Dit Clapper appears good to me. No sense getting it authenticated. If it's real, it's always real. Adding a sticker to it doesn't make it any better. Nice piece and set by the way. On the same note, I am always looking for signed John Mariucci items especially from this set if anyone has one. Take care, Jason
Thank you, Jason.

Took a pic a few weeks ago of Dit Clapper Drive in Hastings, Ontario.

He is a local Hero there and was recently Honored with a celebration.

I personally had never heard of him before I received these cards but have done a fair bit of reading about him since.
He was one heck of a hockey player, that is for sure!
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:04 PM
GeorgeBailey2 GeorgeBailey2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
PSA still grading Beehives?

Noticed this and never knew they once did or still do?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Beehive...8AAOSwbsBXk6gp
I was quite interested in this post and noticed no response.

I went to the PSA registry and looked at the date ranges and found all three groups.

For the Group I & II, grades are only "Authentic". I would suppose this is due to the photo being attached to the cardboard backing. None were for sale, so I was unable to determine when they were graded.

The Group III, due to the border being part of the photo, are basically cards. These had numerical grades. Like the Beliveau, all are new flips, so they have been graded recently. I would assume that the Group I & II are also newly graded based on the low number of slabbed photos. It appears that most of the are currently for sale. While the Beliveau is being auctioned through PWCC, the rest all seem to be from 4SC. Could it be possible that 4SC's is test auctioning a card via PWCC? That would be interesting to know.
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBailey2 View Post
I was quite interested in this post and noticed no response.

I went to the PSA registry and looked at the date ranges and found all three groups.

For the Group I & II, grades are only "Authentic". I would suppose this is due to the photo being attached to the cardboard backing. None were for sale, so I was unable to determine when they were graded.

The Group III, due to the border being part of the photo, are basically cards. These had numerical grades. Like the Beliveau, all are new flips, so they have been graded recently. I would assume that the Group I & II are also newly graded based on the low number of slabbed photos. It appears that most of the are currently for sale. While the Beliveau is being auctioned through PWCC, the rest all seem to be from 4SC. Could it be possible that 4SC's is test auctioning a card via PWCC? That would be interesting to know.
Thanks for the info, George.

I would also tend to believe what you say is likely correct? Seems like the only logical explanation to me anyways.

I recently bid on a couple trophy cards, which seem quite rare, but was unable to win them due to being away.

After I bid, however, I did notice shipping at $40 dollars! In hindsight I guess I am glad I lost but those 2 cards would have been nice to own.

Here's a pic of Dit Clapper Dr. Next time, instead of driving straight through, Hastings, I think I am going to park and check out some of the local shops to see if see any old memorabilia exists anywhere? (That Banjo's restaurant is a great little spot, BTW! )
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Last edited by irv; 08-01-2016 at 02:22 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-02-2016, 08:56 AM
GeorgeBailey2 GeorgeBailey2 is offline
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Default The PSA Group III Beliveau

Fyi, someone had bought it from 4SC and is trying to flip it via PWCC. It is the last day of the auction. It has to go for at least $170 for the guy to break even as he bought for $149 on ebay (thanks to J60 on VHC for that info). I don't see it happening. It will be interesting to see if it breaks $100.

$36.11.....ouch.

Last edited by GeorgeBailey2; 08-02-2016 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBailey2 View Post
Fyi, someone had bought it from 4SC and is trying to flip it via PWCC. It is the last day of the auction. It has to go for at least $170 for the guy to break even as he bought for $149 on ebay (thanks to J60 on VHC for that info). I don't see it happening. It will be interesting to see if it breaks $100.
It is currently at $20.00 and change with only 6 hrs to go so I don't see it breaking a $100 either, unfortunately, for the seller.

I personally would like to own it but even with the current bid price, shipping, exchange rate, duty etc, it would cost me over a $100 CDN at it's current bid to get it!

On a side note, ever since I inherited my cards, it is surprising to me, considering their rarity, that these cards are not more popular than what they are? But I guess, because it's hockey we are talking about, they'll likely never be, (based on the population/popularity differences between us CDN's and the U.S.) as popular as baseball or basketball and maybe even football cards?

Last edited by irv; 08-02-2016 at 05:05 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2016, 06:45 PM
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Dale, Since Bee Hives fall into the range of a regional / food issue, sometimes collectors take an awful long time to notice and finally appreciate something like these.

For the far, far majority of collectors, their eyes are glued to Topps, O-Pee-Chee and Parkhurst.

Stupid.

However, those few collectors who enjoy and appreciate the elegant Bee Hives and their fascinating promotion will seriously wish the gum card guys stay focused on them. I only own a pair of them, and felt glad to get them, as I wanted a couple as type cards. I relish a good story and the Bee Hives deliver the goods, so to speak.

Dale, if you would, please load up a scan of your original Bee Hive ad. I'd love to have a closer look. Would you say the ad traces to the Type 1s, 2s, or 3s?

Back to PSA for a moment, if a MASTER SET REGISTRY player collector wishes to submit a Bee Hive, I for one feel it would enhance his player set handsomely. Really, PSA should grade the Type 1s and 2s; after all, being that the company issued their premiums and photos glued to a colored piece of paper, then they are as-issued and therefore legitimate to be authenticated and adjudicated with a proper numerical grade. First, however, it would be beneficial to them to have a conference call with three known Bee Hive experts to educate them on the fine points and vicissitudes of the given types. This way, the PSA graders will know how in the world to properly grade them.

Wishing you well with your Bee Hives. Please, please, load up a scan of your ad, and one of an original brown envelope the St. Lawrence Starch Company LTD used to send an eager youngster his "free prize".

---Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-15-2016 at 06:48 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Dale, Since Bee Hives fall into the range of a regional / food issue, sometimes collectors take an awful long time to notice and finally appreciate something like these.

For the far, far majority of collectors, their eyes are glued to Topps, O-Pee-Chee and Parkhurst.

Stupid.

However, those few collectors who enjoy and appreciate the elegant Bee Hives and their fascinating promotion will seriously wish the gum card guys stay focused on them. I only own a pair of them, and felt glad to get them, as I wanted a couple as type cards. I relish a good story and the Bee Hives deliver the goods, so to speak.

Dale, if you would, please load up a scan of your original Bee Hive ad. I'd love to have a closer look. Would you say the ad traces to the Type 1s, 2s, or 3s?

Back to PSA for a moment, if a MASTER SET REGISTRY player collector wishes to submit a Bee Hive, I for one feel it would enhance his player set handsomely. Really, PSA should grade the Type 1s and 2s; after all, being that the company issued their premiums and photos glued to a colored piece of paper, then they are as-issued and therefore legitimate to be authenticated and adjudicated with a proper numerical grade. First, however, it would be beneficial to them to have a conference call with three known Bee Hive experts to educate them on the fine points and vicissitudes of the given types. This way, the PSA graders will know how in the world to properly grade them.

Wishing you well with your Bee Hives. Please, please, load up a scan of your ad, and one of an original brown envelope the St. Lawrence Starch Company LTD used to send an eager youngster his "free prize".

---Brian Powell
I agree, Brian, it is silly PSA will not grade these. Mine are still original, untouched, just the way they came back in the 30's-40's so it makes no sense to me?
Personally, I think they are great cards and a piece of Hockey History, especially considering their age and the players who adorn them.

I received/talked to a few Beehive guys, who, imo, were experts, or at least seemed to be and their sentiments were the same regarding these cards.

I have watched some E-Bay ads and it is rare that any get any bids/attention at all.
One card, which is super rare of Cy Wentworth in a Montreal CDN's sweater, fetched $8,000 years ago at an auction but there has been very little action since.

As far as the ad and types go, I'd say they lean towards series Type 1 and 2 as my Father didn't have/own any type 3 cards.

I scanned 2 envelopes showing my Father's name and his home town, which is a small town in NE Ontario where he was born and raised. Note the spelling of the last name on one of the envelopes. We still get that today, lol. I always wonder if Monty or Micheal ever got/get their last name spelled incorrectly on occasion too?

Thanks for asking and for your opinion, Brian, I appreciate it!

Dale

Edit: Noticed the date on the advertising piece as October 20, 1953, which leads me to believe these cards were issued only during certain periods and between certain years, meaning you couldn't get the previous years/series cards? The series were as follows. Group 1, 1934-1943. Group 2, 1945-1964. Group 3, 1964-1967.
I know my Father was given a majority of these cards, so the envelopes, with his name and advertising piece date makes sense as that is when he added to the collection he was given. He would have been 14. He is 77 now.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Beehive advertising back.jpg (81.9 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg Original Beehive envelopes.jpg (77.4 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg Beehive advertising front.jpg (83.2 KB, 118 views)

Last edited by irv; 10-16-2016 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 10-15-2016, 08:46 PM
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Oops.

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Old 10-15-2016, 09:29 PM
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I only learned about these a little over a year ago, when a piece on them was in the first issue of Beckett vintage collector. If you're interested, I'm more than happy to scan and post them.

I love those envelopes and advertising. Very jealous as I'd love to have something random like that.

I actually picked up a couple of Blackhawks a few months ago, since I knew a small amount of them and came across them at a show. I had them graded by Beckett just to encapsulate and protect them. Was shocked at how large the holder is.
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Old 10-16-2016, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
I only learned about these a little over a year ago, when a piece on them was in the first issue of Beckett vintage collector. If you're interested, I'm more than happy to scan and post them.

I love those envelopes and advertising. Very jealous as I'd love to have something random like that.

I actually picked up a couple of Blackhawks a few months ago, since I knew a small amount of them and came across them at a show. I had them graded by Beckett just to encapsulate and protect them. Was shocked at how large the holder is.
I'd love to see them, WVU, that would be great!

I am glad my Father kept those envelopes and the advertising piece. I have seen a few envelopes for sale but never the advertising piece itself. I thought there were only 5 but there are 6 in total.

I'm curious where you purchased your Beehives, was it in the State of Texas? If so, that is interesting, considering their lack of popularity and the fact they made it all the way down there.

Glad to hear Beckett grades them. I have been told Beckett is a great resource for info and prices. Guess I should join to see for myself.

Dale

EDIT: Just read some of your blog, Kin. Very interesting. I am looking forward to reading more. I see your a Andrew Shaw fan. This was 2 years ago. My son was fortunate to play a game of shinny with Andrew Shaw. He was a great guy!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0820 (Large).jpg (69.2 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0900 (Large).JPG (64.9 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0867 (Large).JPG (61.3 KB, 109 views)

Last edited by irv; 10-16-2016 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:15 AM
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Default SGC grades them

my issue
howe sgc 40 (909x1280).jpg
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:10 PM
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Series 3, just like PSA.

I don't recall checking, but I bet that is the only series they grade as well?
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:07 PM
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Dale,

Thanks ever so much for taking the time and trouble to load up those scans from your dear Dad of his Bee Hive advertising piece and mailing envelope. I find those beautiful artifacts complement our actual cards we've collected, or were given by our father, mother, relative, or friend.

In my book on postwar regional / food issues from 1947 -- 1971, I was able to come up with original ads from the 1959 Bell Brand snack chips Los Angeles Rams, as well as a 1962 Salada Coins ad that appeared in a Sunday Funnies section.

I would have loved to write a chapter on the 1968-1969 Shirriff Hockey Coins. I ran out of time, money, and space. My aim was to contact Wayne Gretzky and sit down with The Great One to discuss this set, which was a favorite of his growing up in Brantford, Ontario.

However, my introduction carries some small and larger appetizer sized entrees of hockey issue. They concern, of all things, the beautiful Bee Hives, as well as the 1968-69 Shirriff. Since I couldn't do a chapter, I made sure I had something I felt packed a big punch. As much as you guys enjoy hockey items, you still might not pop for the $30 my e-book on a CD costs. Still, I know you guys would love those parts. Honestly, though, almost the entire book is on baseball items, and those might be nonentities with you hockey guys. I understand.

Again, Dale, thanks for loading those artifacts up.

True, PSA and SGC grade the Type III Bee Hives. Thanks, Jim, for providing us with SGC's fine holder for the Type III Bee Hives. I went to SGC when PSA refused to do a few of my over-sized Mickey Mantle cards; I was stunned when PSA turned me down, but SGC came to the rescue! PSA uses their special T-3 holders to encapsulate the Bee Hives, that are extra heavy and tough, and fit the cards nicely. Bee Hives look terrific and feel extra important in those heavy holders.

DO NOT GIVE UP ON PSA GRADING THE EARLIER BEE HIVES. Mount an offensive at PSA. I don't mean a petition them or cuss them out. That will do nothing. "Dropping the gloves" would work, but you'd pay for it in the end--HA!!

Rather, present a serious treatise on the Bee Hives. Explaining to them their manner of issue, providing a value basis from previous sales, such as the one you gave on Canadien Cy Wentworth, and providing a list of would-be loyal PSA customers IF PSA would listen to your case and start grading the early BEE HIVES, and finally, assure them of the names of say, 3 deeply serious and knowledgeable Bee Hive collectors, who could serve as trainers and educators for PSA's graders on the Bee Hives.

By preparing a good detailed primer of the Bee Hives on paper, and as I may have said, after they get it and have had a chance to read it, then set up a conference call with Joe Orlando, or whoever from PSA grading will want to hear them out and answer any questions on grading the Bee Hives. This would be a pro-active approach.

This could be a win-win situation for PSA and youse guys. Food for thought.

Don't forget about my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Thirty bucks is thirty bucks, I know. However, with what little I still wrote on the Bee Hives and the Shirriff coins, you'd get a kick out of those!

No hard feelings if you decide to pass.

Thanks again, friend, as well as for sharing the photos of your son with Andrew Shaw. Priceless! I mean it, man, they are priceless. So glad to hear his experience was great. Hockey players are still some of the greatest people with their adoring fans.

Better go. Take care, guys. ---Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 10-16-2016 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Dale,

Thanks ever so much for taking the time and trouble to load up those scans from your dear Dad of his Bee Hive advertising piece and mailing envelope. I find those beautiful artifacts complement our actual cards we've collected, or were given by our father, mother, relative, or friend.


My aim was to contact Wayne Gretzky and sit down with The Great One to discuss this set, which was a favorite of his growing up in Brantford, Ontario.

They concern, of all things, the beautiful Bee Hives, as well as the 1968-69 Shirriff.
As much as you guys enjoy hockey items, you still might not pop for the $30 my e-book on a CD costs. Still, I know you guys would love those parts.

IF PSA would listen to your case and start grading the early BEE HIVES, and finally, assure them of the names of say, 3 deeply serious and knowledgeable Bee Hive collectors, who could serve as trainers and educators for PSA's graders on the Bee Hives.

By preparing a good detailed primer of the Bee Hives on paper, and as I may have said, after they get it and have had a chance to read it, then set up a conference call with Joe Orlando, or whoever from PSA grading will want to hear them out and answer any questions on grading the Bee Hives. This would be a pro-active approach.

This could be a win-win situation for PSA and youse guys. Food for thought.

Don't forget about my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. Brian Powell
No problem at all, Brian. I am actually glad you requested scans as I had no idea that info was on the back of that ad!
It was placed in those pgs on top on 2 cards so I couldn't see the back, and just assuming, I didn't think anything was written there?

Wayne Gretzky is actually at my Local Costco tonight signing his new book, http://www.durhamregion.com/sports-s...gning-tonight/ My wife was there tonight, unknowing Wayne was going to be there and she said you could hardly move, and this was around 4pm!
I would love to go and get a copy/signature, but by the time I found out, 5pm, I imagine he'd be long gone by the time I got up front as my wife said the line was growing by the second!

I like the sounds of your E-Book, and believe it or not, I am more of a baseball card collector than I am a hockey one.

I also like your idea about contacting PSA with some people in the know. That sounds like a great idea and one I may look into further.
I tried to contact this fellow to talk, share info but unfortunately, his e-mail address no longer works? http://www.antique67.com/articles.php?article=94

I also plan on going to the Toronto Fall Expo next month. I remember some people there with Beehives but other than my Dad, I didn't look much into them as I was busy shopping for BB cards.

I really appreciate your info and ideas, Brian, that was great of you to do!

Thank you very much!

Dale

Last edited by irv; 10-17-2016 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:40 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
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Dale, you are most welcome, my friend. Glad, and relieved, you liked my post and the ideas. With the Toronto show coming up, perhaps prepare a small paper with your objective of convincing PSA to grade ALL Bee Hives. Carefully word your plea for help to reach out to this American company. Provide your contact information so that you can develop a cadre of committed collectors and knowledgeable enthusiasts to build "the case for grading all Bee Hives".

Initially, contact PSA and ask to speak to someone who will give you a definitive answer on exacting WHY PSA does not grade the Type 1s and 2s. Don't sound argumentative; it will put up walls. No doubt they have a good reason in their own mind (the photo could become loose and re-glued many years after the Bee Hive was originally made---this thought just came to mind).

By finding out why they won't grade them, this then is the objective of your treatise---to persuade PSA by educating them that their fears are groundless because...... You then present the reason(s) PSA won't grade the Bee Hives to your cadre of experts, asking them: OK, mates, this is why PSA won't grade Bee Hives---how can we convince them and reassure them that their fears are unwarranted and that their reputation will not be soiled, and so forth.

Naturally, meeting Wayne Gretzky would have been amazing. As I said, I really wanted to interview him about his own experiences collecting the 1968-69 Shirriff Coins. Honestly, I think Wayne would have been delighted. We would not be talking about Wayne the hockey player, but as a kid who loved collecting those coins, and then finally got the chance to get a banzai set in the early 90s. Now, Dale, the latter event I wrote about in my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It was a beautiful story that I used to conclude my introduction. The T-206 guys will hate me for it, but it was the truth about how Wayne regarded those beautiful Shirriff Hockey Coins.

Two last things.

If you really love baseball items from 1947 - 1971, by all means buy my book. You will love it! I really feel you will. If you wish to proceed, send me a $30 US money order, or if you reside in Canada, ask your banker what they can give you, that won't cost me money in order my bank to cash it. My mailing address is:

Brian Powell
P. O. Box 743
New Carlisle, Indiana 46552 USA

Second, before the year is over, write up "twenty questions" you would like to ask your Dad about his experiences as a boy of collecting his BEE HIVES. Think it through, Dale. Things like:

How did you first find out about the Bee Hive hockey photos?

Did your friends have any?

Were they popular with the other kids in your home town?

Did your mother and father help you get the label, token, box top, whatever, off the container, and help you send away for the Bee Hive photos? Any remembrances?

Who were your favorite three players? WHY?

What did you do with your Bee Hive photos once you got them?

And so on...

Figure out how will be best for your Dad to answer the questions. Will he be able to answer right off the top of his head? Or will he need the questions, with a lot of space to write answers!, on a sheet of paper?

Could you tape or video the questions and answers? If you pull this off, what a deeply personal and treasured heirloom for you, Dale! You could write a free lance article, and market it to various newspapers. Bee Hives were big stuff in Canada for a long time.

Gotta eat and head off to work, Bro.

No time to read and edit my long post to you---rats!

Take care, my friend. ---Brian Powell at bfpowell2003@yahoo.com
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:58 PM
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Thanks again, Brian. Those are some great ideas and ones I will eventually follow up on.
Unfortunately, I don't think PSA, or even SGC will be attending the Toronto Fall Expo?
I was at the spring expo and the only grading company there was Beckett, and I don't think they were actually grading on site?

When I was going through my Father's Beehive's, I remember coming across one that had become unglued. I haven't done anything with it out of fear but I am curious what they used back in the day to actually glue these down.

I would love nothing more than to get mine graded but I know it would cost me a fortune, if they did, based on the size of the slabs required.
Right now our CDN dollar is in the tank, and with shipping, and every other expense that might be involved with them being graded, I am sure it would cost more than what the cards are worth? Being in Canada puts me at a disadvantage, sadly.

I like your idea of asking my Father questions. He is very long winded and likes to talk so it might be a daunting task, however, lol, but I think I will ask him some of your questions as I like that idea very much, as I am sure he will as well.

Thanks again, Brian.
I will look into purchasing your book, but anytime I have tried to send a cheque, it usually creates problems. You don't have Pay Pal, do you?

Dale
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:50 PM
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Dale,

Here are scans of the two Beehives that I got graded:

img822 by kekinsley, on Flickr

img823 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Unfortunately, Beckett graded items do not scan well. The plastic is thicker so that's why they look so bad. I even did it in a dark room. A little frustrating but it is what it is. Also, they are actually slightly bigger than the surface of my scanner. That's why the pics appear cut off.

I did pick them up at a local show. We have shows in our area most weekends but the one that I attend most frequently as a regular seller that has nothing but hockey (he's originally from Ontario) and he had them. They were the only two. I think they said they were his brother's at one time, if I remember correctly.

Andrew Shaw was a nice guy when I met him. For some reason I expected he wouldn't be, but I'm glad that I was wrong. I actually have a (online) collecting friend in Ontario that's buying and sending me some Canadian stamps. I'm going to send a TTM request to him and see how it goes.

I also scanned the pages below that were in the first Beckett Vintage Collector magazine. This was the first that I learned about the Beehives and where most of my limited knowledge comes from.

img824 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img825 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img826 by kekinsley, on Flickr
img827 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Have a great evening!
-kin




Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
I'd love to see them, WVU, that would be great!

I am glad my Father kept those envelopes and the advertising piece. I have seen a few envelopes for sale but never the advertising piece itself. I thought there were only 5 but there are 6 in total.

I'm curious where you purchased your Beehives, was it in the State of Texas? If so, that is interesting, considering their lack of popularity and the fact they made it all the way down there.

Glad to hear Beckett grades them. I have been told Beckett is a great resource for info and prices. Guess I should join to see for myself.

Dale

EDIT: Just read some of your blog, Kin. Very interesting. I am looking forward to reading more. I see your a Andrew Shaw fan. This was 2 years ago. My son was fortunate to play a game of shinny with Andrew Shaw. He was a great guy!!
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Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
Dale,

Here are scans of the two Beehives that I got graded:

img822 by kekinsley, on Flickr

img823 by kekinsley, on Flickr

Unfortunately, Beckett graded items do not scan well. The plastic is thicker so that's why they look so bad. I even did it in a dark room. A little frustrating but it is what it is. Also, they are actually slightly bigger than the surface of my scanner. That's why the pics appear cut off.

I did pick them up at a local show. We have shows in our area most weekends but the one that I attend most frequently as a regular seller that has nothing but hockey (he's originally from Ontario) and he had them. They were the only two. I think they said they were his brother's at one time, if I remember correctly.

Andrew Shaw was a nice guy when I met him. For some reason I expected he wouldn't be, but I'm glad that I was wrong. I actually have a (online) collecting friend in Ontario that's buying and sending me some Canadian stamps. I'm going to send a TTM request to him and see how it goes.

I also scanned the pages below that were in the first Beckett Vintage Collector magazine. This was the first that I learned about the Beehives and where most of my limited knowledge comes from.


Have a great evening!
-kin
Thanks, Kin. Great pics and article!

Did you purchase your Beehives already graded or did you yourself get them graded? If so, can you remember the cost?

Yeah, Andrew Shaw is definitely nicer off ice than he is off, but I assume most are, hopefully?

It was a fun day watching my son be able to skate/play hockey with him. He not only taught the kids a few things, he inspired them to be better, stay in school and get good grades, etc. It was a great experience for my son and one he'll likely never forget.

Thanks again, Kin.

Take care

Dale.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:19 AM
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I have been getting a few inquiries lately about my Beehives, and although, at this point, I don't really plan on selling them, I am curious if there is any new updates/news about them?

Also wondering, if someone is a member, if they'd mind checking out what this lot sold for, if if did, back in 2011, for me?
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey-car...a/7037-80096.s

Thanks
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:43 PM
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$65,725 including buyer's penalty.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:09 AM
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$65,725 including buyer's penalty.
I was ready to say WOW, but considering this completed set, with all the extras, is super rare, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

The Cy Wentworth, if it's of him in a CDN's sweater, is worth over $8,000 alone.

A recent auction of 89, which a guy PM'd me about thinking they were mine, just sold for $777.00 so they are receiving some love/attention, which is good to hear.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HUGE-lot-of-1...sAAOSwx2dYCLzm

Thanks for providing the info, Spec. I appreciate it very much!
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:46 AM
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Default Beehives

Hi Irv.

I just looked over your list of Beehives and I can see you used the Beehive Museum website to compile your list. Most of the photos on that site came from 2 or 3 collectors and even that sight does not have a complete list of all available photos. This is truly one of the most difficult sets to complete. I am in the process of putting all my Beehives on a flicker account. I live in the country so the internet service is real slow( a little faster than dial up ). If you lookup billsmart2 on flicker you will see it. I have a very complete list of all known Beehives as well as the unconfirmed ones along with most of the extra items such as the planes, order forms, tokens cans and collars, etc. This is a far more extensive set than most people realize. If you need any help just ask. I have over 800 of the 1023 hockey players known to exist as well as olympians, airplanes, who's who books etc. I also have over 200 doubles I am willing to trade
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:23 PM
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Hi Irv.

I just looked over your list of Beehives and I can see you used the Beehive Museum website to compile your list. Most of the photos on that site came from 2 or 3 collectors and even that sight does not have a complete list of all available photos. This is truly one of the most difficult sets to complete. I am in the process of putting all my Beehives on a flicker account. I live in the country so the internet service is real slow( a little faster than dial up ). If you lookup billsmart2 on flicker you will see it. I have a very complete list of all known Beehives as well as the unconfirmed ones along with most of the extra items such as the planes, order forms, tokens cans and collars, etc. This is a far more extensive set than most people realize. If you need any help just ask. I have over 800 of the 1023 hockey players known to exist as well as olympians, airplanes, who's who books etc. I also have over 200 doubles I am willing to trade
Great info, Bill. Thanks.

I returned your PM.

Looking forward to talking some more.

Dale
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:47 PM
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Well, after some serious consideration and hopes of obtaining some 52 Topps cards in a recent trade that didn't work out, I am thinking about selling these or trading them?

I am interested in 52 Topps cards, (and maybe some others depending on who and what they are?) as I need some high number cards as well as some other relative tough cards to add to my set.

I want/need a Mathews, Campanella, Pafko, Berra, Martin, Wilhelm, Black, as well as some other lesser known players and high numbers such as Hal Gregg, Randy Jackson, Bubba Church, and Warren Hacker to name a few.

I've added some recent pics of the tougher higher value/SP cards just to give an idea of what I have and the condition they're in. I also have a personal signed Dit Clapper card.

I would like to sell/trade as a whole lot first before I get into selling/trading any single type players, but I am willing to listen to all offers.

There is lots of info, including my complete lists of all the player/items in this thread for those interested.

I am in no hurry to sell/trade these so therefore there is no deadline like an auction. It would be preferred to sell/trade to another CDN just to make things easier due to the size and amount of them, but will also sell/ship to the U.S. if required.

Lets hear/see what you have!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Beehive Al Rollins vertical.jpg (77.1 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Bobby Kirk.jpg (72.3 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Doug Young SP.jpg (77.0 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg Glenn Brydson SP.jpg (79.1 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Jerry Shannon SP.jpg (78.8 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg Les Douglas.jpg (74.9 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Pete Slobodian .jpg (79.5 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Squee Allen.jpg (80.4 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Terry Sawchuk.jpg (77.2 KB, 59 views)
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