Importance of Provenance

[joshuanip]

I'm curious what the board thinks of the importance of provenance in cards?

In art, itself the difference between a Jackson Pollock in the tens of millions or a maybe Jackson Pollock and the tens of hundreds. But in art, pieces are generally 1 of 1's and not publicly distributed like how the history of cards were.

Does it matter (other than cool factor) if a card has been held in a grandad's attic for 100 years or if it was from an unknown history, since most cards are "authenticated" these days.

If provenance is important for certain cases, than curious what kind of premium is warranted? If you look at the black swamp for example, that is great provenance, but no one seems to care because of the supply side issue of the find.

Absolute waste of time post but just a different angle in our hobby I was curious about.

(P.S. Memorabilia completely different case, because of the personal nature of an auto and forgeries in the industry, but does it hold weight in cards?)

[icollectDCsports]

This issue comes up in the recent discussion about doctored cards. Worth a read.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=250171

[Leon]

I think provenance on cards is great when it can be had. I know where these cards shown came from... I am as positive as can be they weren't ever tampered with. There are lots of cards with good provenance in the hobby and I will pay a little more for a card with a steadfast history. (Shown before but relevant.)

[CobbSpikedMe]

I like provenance on a flip for the "cool factor" as you say. I love my Lionel Carter and Frank Nagy cards and probably paid a slight premium for them. I would think other cards would also bring a premium in some case, like the Skydash find of Tin Tops years ago here on the boards. I could be wrong though.

[drcy]

Ideally, provenance gives you the history all the way to the origin or early owner, but, for altered cards, even just going back a step or two can reveal issues. If you find an earlier auction showing that a card has been altered, that is an example of provenance and why it is important. Game used collectors often find where a bat or jersey has been altered since it's last sale (number on a bat change, fake use added, etc) -- which is an example of provenance. The linked column at the bottom gives examples where past sales have shown problems with items.

Of course, provenance isn't foolproof and doesn't prove everything. Of course, there isn't documentation and pictures for all cards. Of course, some cards are obtained from a garage sale or found in an attic. Even if someone has a receipt from 30 years ago, there probably isn't a picture. But it still an important consideration and piece in the puzzle. If a card doctor is offering a Gem Mint graded card, he won't be able to show where he got the card-- because he didn't obtain it in that state. If someone is about to drop $50,000 on a Gem Mint card and doesn't even ask where the card came from, I would say that person is pretty stupid.

In fact, I bet in the future, cards with decent provenance-- as opposed to high grade cards that appear out of nowhere-- will receive a premium in value. Many card collects ignore or dismiss provenance for cards, but if it is revealed that there has been mass doctoring of cards, they likely will change their tune.

With famous old masters artworks, provenance helps prove authenticity and identity, along with giving evidence of its age. Here it's not a matter of condition, but identity and age.

The Importance of Provenance in Collecting

[oldjudge]

To go to the other end of the spectrum, it means zero to me. Whether the card was previously owned by Mickey Mantle or Shlomo Mantle, the butcher, means little to me. I just care about the card.

[rainier2004]

So I don't collect high grade anything, I wouldn't know a psa 8 if it bit me where the Sun don't shine. I collect rarities, items that have less than 20 known examples from the pre-ww1 era.

I do my own check, I check with others and if everything pans out I am good. I honestly couldn't care less about provenance in any way, shape or form...it just doesn't matter to me as long as it passes my personal checks. Its just cards...