"Bob" vs "Roberto" Clemente

[geosluggo]

Topps Anglicized Roberto Clemente's name as "Bob" from 1957 to 1969, but I only recently noticed that just about every other card maker was calling him Roberto in the '60s. Included here are a '62 Salada coin, '63 Post and Fleer, '68 KDKA and Atlantic Oil and '69 Nabisco and Transogram cards.

[Stonepony]

I thought I've read he didn't like being called "Bob" as his given name was Roberto.

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I thought I've read he didn't like being called "Bob" as his given name was Roberto.

How could someone not like being called "Bob"?

[irv]

#9

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...y-of-his-debut

9. Although many media organizations and the Topps baseball card company often referred to him as “Bob,” Clemente adamantly rejected that name and repeatedly insisted he be called Roberto.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by irv

#9

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...y-of-his-debut

9. Although many media organizations and the Topps baseball card company often referred to him as “Bob,” Clemente adamantly rejected that name and repeatedly insisted he be called Roberto.

Thanks Irv, enjoyed reading that. I did not realize he perished on the plane he rented....and was only on the flight because the previous shipments he sent over were hijacked. What an incredible person.

Z

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by bobsbbcards

How could someone not like being called "Bob"?

Is how would someone named bob like being called Roberto?!

[spaidly]

I think the Topps typesetter got lazy.

[celoknob]

[QUOTE=spaidly;1691153]I think the Topps typesetter got lazy.[/QUOTE

Don't think that's it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Is how would someone named bob like being called Roberto?!

I have a friend that we have called Roberto, he doesn't mind it. Bob Prince was close friends with Roberto and always called him Bob or Bobby. I think that the root of the problem is the racism and bigotry against Spanish speaking people that Roberto faced when he came to the continental United States from Puerto Rico. Some of those media members that called him Bob in their articles, in the same article made fun of his broken English.

[BradH]

As a Clemente fan, his Topps issues from the '57-69 era have always driven me nuts. I've also read before that the "Bob" references supposedly irked Clemente.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It made even less sense because he was Roberto on his first two Topps cards.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It made even less sense because he was Roberto on his first two Topps cards.

Indeed.

[jason.1969]

At least they didn't go with Bob Walker!

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[jason.1969]

This graph shows Topps was really in the minority during this time.

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[Empty77]

Neat graph. Extra insulting is that they happily named his caucasian contemporaries by whatever name they preferred (e.g., Sandy Koufax rather than Sanford, in fact even putting Sandy in quotes on his '55 card, so it's not like they didn't know it wasn't his formal name), but for Clemente they assign him a name he doesn't want to replace his actual name. That was f'd-up.

[jason.1969]

Also weird is that other players with Latin names tended to keep them on their cards these same years. Example: Luis Aparicio.

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[clydepepper]

Racism, plain and simple.


see also 'Chief' Bender, etc.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Racism, plain and simple.





see also 'Chief' Bender, etc.

Yet Jacoby Ellsbury's nickname is Chief as he had that on his Player's Weekend jersey...just sayin'...

Jacoby Ellsbury: "Chief"
Ellsbury is part Navajo, and he is honoring his heritage this weekend with a nickname a lot of his teammates have called him over the years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb...names.amp.html


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[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Big Six

Yet Jacoby Ellsbury's nickname is Chief as he had that on his Player's Weekend jersey...just sayin'...

Jacoby Ellsbury: "Chief"
Ellsbury is part Navajo, and he is honoring his heritage this weekend with a nickname a lot of his teammates have called him over the years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb...names.amp.html


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It's understandable that not every member of a given minority has an issue with race-specific nicknames.

I'm Guessing that it is also true that Jacob Ellsbury's personal connection to his cultural past may not be as strong as those who, in the first half of the 20th century (at least) were the objects of far worse abuse than the playful 'Chief' called out Ellsbury's way.

IMO, the root of racism is not in the actual word, but rather the intent behind that word.

I doubt very seriously if Jacoby's teammates are aiming to demean him by calling him that and his choosing to use it for the 'nickname event', indicates that.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

It's understandable that not every member of a given minority has an issue with race-specific nicknames.



I'm Guessing that it is also true that Jacob Ellsbury's personal connection to his cultural past may not be as strong as those who, in the first half of the 20th century (at least) were the objects of far worse abuse than the playful 'Chief' called out Ellsbury's way.



IMO, the root of racism is not in the actual word, but rather the intent behind that word.



I doubt very seriously if Jacoby's teammates are aiming to demean him by calling him that and his choosing to use it for the 'nickname event', indicates that.

Completely agree. My softball buddies all call me "Mick" (I'm Irish and a McCarthy) and I take no offense...surely things would be different 100+ years ago as Mick was a negative term. Intent makes a difference. Just want to point out that we also have the power to dictate certain things. Ellsbury wears Chief as a badge of honor...hard to turn that around and take it in a negative connotation as he owns that nickname. Guess that's the way I look at team names like Braves and Redskins. I see them as being homages and something to take pride in, not racist. But I digress...


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[Big Six]

BTW...Bender, too, embraced his nickname...had it emblazoned on his tombstone...so I think he didn't necessarily see it as racist...




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[jason.1969]

This is from the Encyclopedia Brittanica, if anyone remembers what that is!!

"While Clemente amassed a mountain of impressive statistics during his career, he was often mocked by the print media in the United States for his heavy Spanish accent. Clemente was also subjected to the doublediscrimination*of being a foreigner and being black in a racially segregated society. Although the media tried to call him “Bob” or “Bobby” and many of his baseball cards use “Bob,” Clemente explicitly rejected those nicknames, stating in no uncertain terms that his name was Roberto. There was also confusion over the correct form of his*surname. For 27 years the plaque at the National Baseball Hall of Fame read “Roberto Walker Clemente,” mistakenly placing his mother’s maiden name before his father’s surname. Only in 2000 was it changed to its proper Latin American form, Roberto Clemente Walker."

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[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

This is from the Encyclopedia Brittanica, if anyone remembers what that is!!

"While Clemente amassed a mountain of impressive statistics during his career, he was often mocked by the print media in the United States for his heavy Spanish accent. Clemente was also subjected to the doublediscrimination*of being a foreigner and being black in a racially segregated society. Although the media tried to call him “Bob” or “Bobby” and many of his baseball cards use “Bob,” Clemente explicitly rejected those nicknames, stating in no uncertain terms that his name was Roberto. There was also confusion over the correct form of his*surname. For 27 years the plaque at the National Baseball Hall of Fame read “Roberto Walker Clemente,” mistakenly placing his mother’s maiden name before his father’s surname. Only in 2000 was it changed to its proper Latin American form, Roberto Clemente Walker."

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Great Info, Jason. Thanks!

-

[jason.1969]

From the SABR bio of Pirates broadcaster Roberto Prince...

"Over the years, Clemente and Prince became close. Prince was one of the few people, perhaps the only one, who regularly got away with referring to Clemente as "Bob" or "Bobby," an Americanization of his name that the proud Clemente despised.*"

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[jason.1969]

Am curious who at Topps--if anyone--decides what name to put on a player's card. One possibility could even be that Topps jist worked off some list provided by the teams. Anyone know?

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