Ruth and Gehrig Balls - Authentic?

[VAYankee]

Ok, not connected directly, but it seemed as though from the comments about the Ruth, Gehrig, Johnson balls that they are connected at least indirectly. Correct?

[RichardSimon]

The Florida ring is not connected to CC.
They sell totally different items from each other and do business in a very different way.
Though I believe they both do sell to resellers who pollute the entire hobby with crap in many different venues.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

Ok, not connected directly, but it seemed as though from the comments about the Ruth, Gehrig, Johnson balls that they are connected at least indirectly. Correct?

The Florida crap is mostly along the lines of 500HR, 300 win type collages and players. Mantle, DiMaggio, Ford, Williams, Koufax.
Coaches Corner tagline is "We sign to order, customization FREE!"

[earlywynnfan]

I don't mean to be rude, but to the OP: you appear to be in over your head by trying to buy autos at this level. To consider buying this caliber of auto at these prices is foolish.

Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I don't mean to be rude, but to the OP: you appear to be in over your head by trying to buy autos at this level. To consider buying this caliber of auto at these prices is foolish.

Ken

My thoughts exactly, Ken.

Is this what impulse buying is?

Someone who knows nothing about autographs all-of-a-sudden leaps to purchase high-end autographs of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, etc?

Is that why sellers of forgeries are so successful?

Damn right it is!!!!

[VAYankee]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

My thoughts exactly, Ken.

Is this what impulse buying is?

Someone who knows nothing about autographs all-of-a-sudden leaps to purchase high-end autographs of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, etc?

Is that why sellers of forgeries are so successful?

Damn right it is!!!!

I suppose my simple reply is that "you don't know, what you don't know." I'm sure when you all started here you weren't instant experts as well and have learned along the way. To my credit, I didn't buy the Ruth or Gehrig balls, because I sensed something wasn't right. I came here, and that was confirmed.

As a bit of background, I have been collecting for years, mainly contemporary although a couple DiMaggio/Mantle type of balls sprinkled in. I stopped buying stuff like the DiMaggio balls when I saw the HBO special about the industry and Mr. Frangipani, of which I have one of the balls he certified - in fact, I went to NY, met him and the seller. I got burned and went away, except to stuff that was certified by MLB or perhaps Steiner (for Yankees stuff - did not pay full retail though as that's crazy).

I got "back in" after my best friend told me about JDE. Seemed legit, he had purchased a few nice pieces from them...seemed safe. Is that not something most people, even here, would do? Obtaining a Ruth and Gehrig ball has always been a lifelong dream. I'm glad I didn't spend $5k here on one only to find out later it was a fake.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by VAYankee

I suppose my simple reply is that "you don't know, what you don't know." I'm sure when you all started here you weren't instant experts as well and have learned along the way. To my credit, I didn't buy the Ruth or Gehrig balls, because I sensed something wasn't right. I came here, and that was confirmed.

As a bit of background, I have been collecting for years, mainly contemporary although a couple DiMaggio/Mantle type of balls sprinkled in. I stopped buying stuff like the DiMaggio balls when I saw the HBO special about the industry and Mr. Frangipani, of which I have one of the balls he certified - in fact, I went to NY, met him and the seller. I got burned and went away, except to stuff that was certified by MLB or perhaps Steiner (for Yankees stuff - did not pay full retail though as that's crazy).

I got "back in" after my best friend told me about JDE. Seemed legit, he had purchased a few nice pieces from them...seemed safe. Is that not something most people, even here, would do? Obtaining a Ruth and Gehrig ball has always been a lifelong dream. I'm glad I didn't spend $5k here on one only to find out later it was a fake.

I am glad you didn't pull the trigger on any of that garbage.

[LCBaseballCollector]

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by LCBaseballCollector

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

Well written comment, LCB.

First, it is my opinion that Roach's Corner has maybe 4-6 major consignors.

Also, in my opinion, the majority of people who buy that crap are stores who sell to impulse buyers who are the impressed by someone like Chris "I Have Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales and his "Forensic" title.

Then there's the individuals who buy that crap simply to flip it elsewhere for a profit, etc.

At one point, years ago, we thought "something" was going to happen, but it never did.

Scoot Malack and Lee Trythall have been selling forgeries for two decades, and at this point, it looks like it will continue forever.

With it now being 2015, and all of the information available, I have no reason to feel sorry for anyone who buys that crap.

And the truth is, the only people that care are us.

[shelly]

I find it interesting that you said you went to NY and meet with the seller of the ball and the Donald at the same time.
I have never heard of that happening. It was always my belief that the Donald and seller never worked together.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by LCBaseballCollector

As a collector whose interest in this hobby is fading, I could not agree more with you TIOT. The only question I would have is "who buys this crap?". I mean look on the first page of the Coach's Corner Sports Auctions page and you will see two Lou Gehrig baseballs. Are they not completely identical?

The forger has but one black fountain pen (ocassional blue) that stands out as "so obvious", does it not? And then when you click on "baseball" in the browse bar in fact you see that he has authored more than his fair share of goods for these roaches.

http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=baseball

But of course in saying this, who gets the final laugh in all of this? What, twenty-five years of this? Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in sales where a book seller in nearby area does a smidge of these sales over a few years and he gets a proper sentence for his crimes? And now they are bringing Barry Halper back to life in the form of fifty-eight authenticated items?

People "like this" potential buyer is the very reason why forgers have success and why it is a growing business and very, very lucrative. There are actually people on the other end of these sales that spent good money for worthless merchandise. Who would have thunk it, but I bet we all know people who have purchased from Coach's. I do. How many $100 items that should sell for $5,000 end up in retail stores with a $5,000 price tag and are in fact sold? I bet quite a few. Lots actually. Upon my travels I have seen it.

The number question is "how are these guys never caught?" and that the fact of the matter is that they are so brazen (perfect word) because it's been twenty-five years and if they were able to allude a few stings back when, do they actually foresee any harm coming their way in the future? So five years from now it looks like they will probably have a new authenticator, baseballs signed by William Shakespeare and Jesus Christ and we will still be complaining about them on message boards while we work hard for an honest living you have to wonder what the point of being honest actually is if this is allowed? C'mon FBI. I know you are very busy with ISIS, but this is the ISIS of this hobby. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Sorry for the rant, but I, like tens of thousands are truly disgusted with it all and the only way to combat our frustration is with message board complainin'.

Well done LC.
I still like to think that something will happen to these guys.
Some here have tried but LE is not what it used to be.
I think Chris is overestimating the number of consignors, I think even less then 4-6. One of them came over on the Titanic for crying out loud. (private joke). Remember that Titanic signed "team sheet"? A group allegedly of crewman of the Titanic had their alleged signatures on a sheet of paper. I can certainly picture them doing that.

[Klrdds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgmp123
I'm sorry but I believe your story is a load of crap. It's a little too ironic that you were "offered" two autographs that appear on a regular basis on the Coaches Corner website and chose to come here (seeing you just joined this month) to ask an opinion.

They are fake and if you were trying to get someone to give you an approval, then purchase the ball there and try to resale here or somewhere else, then you shouldn't bother sticking around.
Sorry, but your story and the irony is just too fishy for me.
Best of luck on eBay.

James, you might have a point here.

Maybe I am a skeptic, and I do not have as many posts as many of you do, but it seems like this topic gets broached every month or so. A poster with low post numbers or is a new member posts a message about a Ruth or Gehrig ( most commonly them and curiously not other HoFers in that category such as Johnson , Cobb, Wagner etc..) autographed baseball that is available to him exclusively at a great price , or is available at auction. After our opinion is solicited and the name Coach's Corner Auctions comes up the poster suddenly asks all types of questions about CCA , in fact they seeem to follow a set question format/ script claiming lack of knowledge about CCA and then wanting to know all about them...including names, etc...and the site's opinions about them. The only difference is that the OP has a purported COA, unsigned albeit, from Barry Halper; this seems to be a new twist to the story, and now will these Halper letters start to proliferate through the hobby.
If this OP is for real, and I have concerns, but he needs to begin to educate himself about such things. Yes , Net 54 is and its members are a great resource but people need to do some work on their own also.
I do not mean to sound rude but these "fishing" posters need some legs to stand on before posting this stuff, or am I just frustrated that CCA continues in this manner.
Sorry the copy/paste didn't work, it became a quote instead.