Advice for "The National"

[btkpath]

Well the planets are aligning for the first time and I have been given the "go ahead" by the "powers that be" (i.e. my wife) to attend the National. I have never been and am looking forward to attending, however, I also don't want to spend more time than I need to. My main goals for the convention are as follows:

1. Browse the booths and see what is for sale.
2. Make some headway in finishing the sets that I am collecting and buy some other "cool" stuff.
3. Hand deliver some cards for on site grading.
4. Network with some of the great people that I have met by email, but have yet to meet in person.

My questions regarding my attendance are as follows:

1. How critical is it to attend during the Wednesday "sneak peek"? Are most dealers even set up that early?
2. What type of ticket represents the best value? Are the "all access" and "VIP" passes worth the money? I am not all that interested in the autographs, but cutting an hour or two off of a line for the grading companies would be welcome. Are the additional giveaways worthwhile with the more expensive ticket packages?
3. Are the player autographs something that I should not miss?
4. Are the lines for the grading companies always long, or is there a strategy to use to minimize the lines (and the need for a more expensive ticket)? Is there on site grading available, and, if so when does material need to be dropped off to ensure its return during the show?
5. Are things pretty much torn down by Sunday morning, making attendance on Sunday worthless?
6. I understand that there are several night time auctions during the convention. Is it typically Friday night?

I apologize for being so long winded. Any advice, perspectives or suggestions are welcome on any/all of the questions.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

[Bicem]

1. most dealers are set up by Wed, I think it's worth it
2. not sure on this one, the extra giveaways kinda seem like garbage to me though
3. skip them unless you love autos and/or long lines
4. SGC lines are not long at all, don't know about PSA but can't be that long
5. yes
6. Thurs and Fri night typically

See you there!

[Leon]

I am biased but I recommend coming to the Net54baseball dinner. You will get to meet around 150 board members in person, it's free food and beverage, and it's always a good time. It will be Friday evening after the show....most likely at the Hyatt that is connected to the show.....more details later....

I recommend going on Wed.....and probably getting a VIP pass to get in an hour before the regular mob....As far as lines at the grading tables, I don't think any of them will be too, too long. It shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes in any line, I don't think. Wear sneakers and bring a small pad of paper and pen/pencil to write down dealers tables you want to go back to....good luck.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by btkpath

My questions regarding my attendance are as follows:

1. How critical is it to attend during the Wednesday "sneak peek"? Are most dealers even set up that early?
2. What type of ticket represents the best value? Are the "all access" and "VIP" passes worth the money? I am not all that interested in the autographs, but cutting an hour or two off of a line for the grading companies would be welcome. Are the additional giveaways worthwhile with the more expensive ticket packages?
3. Are the player autographs something that I should not miss?
4. Are the lines for the grading companies always long, or is there a strategy to use to minimize the lines (and the need for a more expensive ticket)? Is there on site grading available, and, if so when does material need to be dropped off to ensure its return during the show?
5. Are things pretty much torn down by Sunday morning, making attendance on Sunday worthless?
6. I understand that there are several night time auctions during the convention. Is it typically Friday night?

2011 was my first National, so I have limited experience, but very recent.

I went with the VIP pass covering all days and attended every session. No regrets.

My answers are a little different than Jeff's.

1. Wednesday is worth it. Helps you get the lay of the land. You can possibly snag a bargain, or be the first to get to a rare card/item.
2. I liked the VIP very much. Includes all the days. IIRC 1/2 hour early admission in the AM lets you get the jump and better face time with dealers. Lounge area is handy. The auto tickets make up some value too. I'm not really an auto collector, but I got swept up in it and made sure I got 6-7 free autos on the tickets that were part of my VIP. Another point about the auto tickets. I discovered that there is an active market for these things. You are probably not supposed to do this, but I saw many people selling auto tickets to the people milling about the auto area. For the VIP free guys, it seemed like folks were able to get buyers for the tickets at $5-$10. So you could also do that to make back some of the VIP price. (Of course, the real nice guys were giving their tickets they didn't want away to kids for free...that gave me a good feeling). VIP also includes a load of modern promo cards that I couldn't care less about. I thought about eBaying them, but I'm too lazy!
3. The thing about this is...it is an insane time eater. Honestly, for each free player auto you line up to get you can assume you will spend 60-90 minutes of the day standing in lines. At first, I thought this was completely insane. Then after multiple days at the show I realized that I wasn't going to spend every minute looking at cards. Met some nice folks standing around waiting for autos. Patience and a good attitude are required!!!
4. At the outset of the show, the PSA line is LONG. Many people want to drop the cards early to ensure prompt return (maybe even to sell at the show). PSA line on Wednesday might be an hour or more. SGC never had a long line that I saw during the show. Longest I waited for service from SGC was 10 minutes. I got grading done by both PSA and SGC at the show. Advantage SGC.
5. I did not find things were torn down Sunday AM. In fact, I did some good shopping on Sunday AM. I got some great deals on some nice Type I photos on Sunday. I also used Sunday to buy supplies/boxes/holder, so I didn't have to carry them around before the end of the entire show.
6. I believe Jeff is right - Thursday and Friday. At the 2011 show Heritage had a free dinner for its customers/bidders, which I attended, followed by their live auction.

Cheers,
Blair

[edhans]

Good advice so far. I would add that comfortable and supportive footwear is essential.

[HRBAKER]

I would also bring some antacid if you plan on eating at the venue.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I would also bring some antacid if you plan on eating at the venue.

I would plan on not eating at the venue...my backpack has been invaluable with a small lock on the zipper as to not have any worries with safety.

[btkpath]

Thanks Jeff P., Leon, Bosox Blair, Ed, Jeff and Steve for the valuable responses so far. This is exactly what I need.

[E93]

Originally Posted by edhans

Good advice so far. I would add that comfortable and supportive footwear is essential.

+1

I would add that it is a good idea to stretch periodically; at least it helps me.
JimB

[Bosox Blair]

Also re grading - the TPGs offer on-site grading. I think the usual is overnight for pickup the next day. The price is relatively high for that type of service, as you might expect. I believe SGC had some "show specials" that made their version of this service a little cheaper than PSA.

However, I think both PSA and SGC had some kind of deal where you could pre-arrange to drop off your grading (especially a large number of cards) at the beginning of the show for pickup at the end of the show (so like 3-day service) for a much lower price.

I contacted SGC customer service the week before the show, and they e-mailed me back with details of such a deal. I did not wind up using that option because I did not have enough cards that needed grading to meet their minimum for this deal.

Cheers,
Blair

[Ronnie73]

I've never been to the National either but might try to go this year if my health is good at the time. I would agree that Wednesday would be good to learn the layout of the show but I always wonder about buying on the early previews of any show. Maybe if it was an ultra rare card that can't be bought without years of searching but I feel that most dealers would hold off on giving price breaks since they have the whole show to try to sell their cards at their asking price. When I was into coin shows at the age of 9, I would go to each table many times and make notes of who had what and continue to just look around until I started seeing dealers pack up. Then I would go make my purchases and make deals on lower prices.

[tiger8mush]

For me, most important things to remember (basically repeating what others have said above):

1) Food - pack a full day's worth
2) Backpack - to carry food, purchases, items to sell/grade, checklists, etc
3) Checklist/Wantlist/Pricelist
4) pencil & pad to write stuff down like contacts or offers or table #s to come back to etc
5) comfy footwear
6) deodorant - wow were there some stinky people by 4pm!
7) net54 pin from 2010 Baltimore National!!!!

Have fun Barry!
Rob

[matty6]

I don't have any advice; I've been to one and everything I'd say was already said but I just gotta tell you this story.

I was born and raised in Maryland and am living in Florida now. I'm a school teacher so I'm off for the summer. Naturally the 2012 National was a no-brainier for me. Cal, Brooks, Palmer and F. Robby will all be there. Furthermore, I just got back into vintage stuff within the last few months. My only obstacle was convincing my girlfriend to go with me. I was looking at the celebrities signing and noticed Ron Turcotte and two other triple crown jockeys will be there. My girlfriend used to run a farm of fifty thoroughbreds and her passion is horse racing. She met Secretariot a few years back. So that's how I presented it.

"Hey baby. The national sports collectors convention is in Baltimore this year and Ron Turcotte will be there. I would love to take you there to meet him. Wanna go?"

I thought she was going to come outta her psnts. She asked off from work the next day.

Then today I mentioned the Net54 dinner and that it's free food and beverages. She's all over it!

Moral of the story? Look for the right angle with your women! Can't wait to meet you all!

[Publius]

Originally Posted by E93

+1

I would add that it is a good idea to stretch periodically; at least it helps me.
JimB

I try to do a set of lunges at the end of each aisle, prior to starting the next.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Publius

I try to do a set of lunges at the end of each aisle, prior to starting the next.

hahaha

[Peter_Spaeth]

Preparation is vital. A low-fat diet, a B-complex vitamin, probiotics. Cardiovascular training is most important for the rigors you will be facing, but stretching and weights can be beneficial as well. And because it's ultimately a mental and spiritual challenge, daily yoga and meditation.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Preparation is vital. A low-fat diet, a B-complex vitamin, probiotics. Cardiovascular training is most important for the rigors you will be facing, but stretching and weights can be beneficial as well. And because it's ultimately a mental and spiritual challenge, daily yoga and meditation.

Now I understand why there were so many...ahem...healthy-looking gents at the National.

Leon will be arranging wheatgrass smoothies as the N54 dinner entree....

[oldjudge]

1. Don't build up your hopes if you are looking for scarce cards. There are 1000+ dealer tables but very few with great vintage stuff.

2. Unless you find something that you can't live without and are afraid that it will scooped up by someone else if you leave the table, make note of cards you like, walk the full show, and then decide what you will seriously pursue. The worst thing would be to use up your money early and then find a great card.

3. Negotiate, negotiate------------NEVER PAY WHAT THE DEALER IS ASKING

4. Consider the National as a social event where you may find some cards you need. If you go in with that attitude you will never be disappointed

[E93]

Joe and Peter,
You guys are f#%@ing hilarious.
JimB

[Leon]

Originally Posted by E93

Joe and Peter,
You guys are f#%@ing hilarious.
JimB

Sorry, but I sat here laughing and laughing on that one. The first one, Joe, nailed it....and Peter's follow up was well played too. Thanks everyone. That lightened it up a little.

As Jay said, go there with low to no expectations of finding something you want or need and you will leave happy. Most likely you will find a gem or two. I do have to admit, last year was my worst year ever for getting stuff for my collection. The first day I bought a $40 strip card with an almost perfect wet sheet transfer on it, from a board member,...and nothing for my collection the next 4-5 days. I got a few odds and ends for resale but it too was almost dry. Other years I have done much better. Maybe if I quit talking for long enough to look at tables it would help? It is a great social event though (to me and many others) and I have always thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Hankphenom]

Bring LOTS of money and plan to spend all of it.

[martyp]

The past two years PSA has allowed people to join they collector club or renew their membership at the show. The free grading which comes with paying for the membership could be used at the show for on site grading, It is not 2 hour, but normally next day or two. This can save a couple of bucks for show grading.

at least 95% of the dealers are completely set up Wednesday at open time. Over 80% are set up Sunday. It is hard for the dealers to leave early if they are there Sunday because they do not open the doors to leave until the show ending time. This does not stop them from spending the last 2-3 hours of the show packing up.

[btkpath]

Again, I just wanted to thank everyone who has chimed in regarding their advice and prior experiences at the National. I now have some direction (and a rigid training plan that I will undertake over the next several months in preparation for my attendance) in order to make the best use of my time in Baltimore.

Leon, I will definitely attend the net54 dinner that gets planned.

Thanks again for everyone's help and keep the ideas coming!

[Rich Klein]

But the absolutely most important thing to remember is to wear the most comfortable shoes possible.

Those concrete floors are hard and after several days do take an effect.

And remember, if the item is something you have been looking for years; don't be afraid to make a quick purchase but if you are chasing 1975 Topps, you can certainly take your time before finding a vendor you are comfortable with.

PSA and BGS lines tend to be long; SGC is not nearly as long

Rich

[Jewish-collector]

Barry,

Here's a beginner's guide to the National:

My advice to first timers is to wear comfortable shoes, carry a large shoulder bag or a pack for your cash, want lists, top loads, plastic cases, and a small box for graded cards. Leave your coat/jacket/sweater in your car. it will be warm at the show. Bring a pen and a notebook to keep track of your purchases and to make a map of dealer booths so you can remember where you saw particular items. Don't pay the listed price for anything. Many times the dealers will offer you a discount before you ask for one. It doesn't hurt to ask for a larger discount that the one that they offer. If you are looking for specific items in specific grades, make a list of the prices that you are willing to pay. It is easy to overpay at the show. If you look hard enough you will find a few bargains, but it may take some time. Bring a small flashlight, a loupe, and a magnifying glass. Bring some $1 bills and $5 bills. It is surprising how many dealers don't have enough change.

When you see a card in a dealers showcase with no price, and you ask the dealer how much he wants for it, usually if he says, "hold on a minute, I'll look it up", you can count on the dealer asking for much more than it is worth. Generally he will be looking for collectors who are willing to overpay, or he really doesn't know how much it is worth and he is "fishing" to see what you will offer. It seems like some of the dealers don't like to acknowledge that you are looking at their cards, and that you may like to buy something from them. They are too busy eating, reading, or sorting their cards to look up and say "hi". It also seems that the dealers who do acknowledge you, talk to you, and ask you questions are the ones who are willing to be flexible on their prices. Some of the dealers are there to sell their cards and turn over their inventory, and some seem to bring the same overpriced cards to show after show.

Also, do get together with other collectors & dealers. DEFINATELY GO TO THE NET54 DINNER !!! It's a great way to put some faces to the names of the Net54 members. People can be quite different face to face than they are on the forum.

You will have a blast at the show even if you don't buy a whole lot.

Alan

[vintagechris]

I have a question regarding buying items at the National. For those that travel, where do you put the items you buy to protect them? It would concern me to just leave them in a hotel room.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[wonkaticket]

Bring condoms there will be a lot of hot chicks looking to give away thier bodies as they love card guys it's just that simple.

[Exhibitman]

This year will be my 12th show. Lots of good tips above, I can add a few things:

1. I have tried back packs, shoulder slung cases and rolling sample cases and the latter are by far the best way to cruise around the show. After several hours your neck and back will be killing you if you have anything slung across them, unless you are a hiker used to wearing a pack.

2. Take the time to do a serious and detailed want list. While you may not find a specific holy grail card, you never know what you will run across that would fit your collection. Last year, for example, I found a table where the dealer was blowing out an album full of 1947-66 Exhibits, including most of the SPs, for $3 each. I was very happy to have that list that day since I knocked off several dozen of the tougher cards in the set in one shot.

3. I think Wednesday is imperative if you can swing it. Getting into the show that day has brought me some great finds that would have been gone had I waited until that evening.

4. I don't subscribe to the idea of waiting to see what else you might find before pulling the trigger on a purchase of something you have been chasing for a long time. I did that in 2004 in Cleveland and nearly lost an item I really wanted. If it is there and it is priced decently, grab it.

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

3. I think Wednesday is imperative if you can swing it. Getting into the show that day has brought me some great finds that would have been gone had I waited until that evening.

+1