Ted Williams' fake vs real

[djson1]

Whenever I start to feel like I have a good handle on spotting a good Williams vs a fake one, I realize I may not have an eye for it (at least Williams').

Some of you may have already seen this picture before, but here is Williams' son (John-Henry) holding a forged signature and Ted is holding an authentic one. Obviously, they would know which is real and which is fake, but I really can't spot the giveaways on how to determine it.

Can any of you Ted Williams' experts out there educate us on how to tell the difference, particularly in this photo of the two balls? The one John-Henry is holding looked good to me. If the photo caption didn't say it was fake, I would have thought it was legit. Are the "ll"'s too short?? Is it just too nice and even of a signature? I can't tell.

Thank you, in advance!

[daves_resale_shop]

open d's & a's are usually a good indicator of a bad Williams

Thanks for sharing the photo! very interesting indeed

[djson1]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

open d's & a's are usually a good indicator of a bad Williams

Thanks for sharing the photo! very interesting indeed

Thanks, Dave. I remember somebody on here also mentioning about the open "a" and "d" (maybe it was you), but I've seen many forgeries that closed the "a" and "d". The example in this picture above looks to be a closed 'd' and 'a' (maybe the "a" is slightly open).

Funny thing is, if I didn't know the left one was fake and was offered a choice to buy either one, I would have chosen the fake one because it looks nicer!

[ATP]

The connector between the first and last name is also key. The fakes always just looked really forced.

[shelly]

I was the one who pointed out the a and d. That is just the first thing you look at if either one of them is open dont buy it.
The flow is everything and how he seems to backtrack on the a. I also look at the slant of the s. It is important because the forger hesitates to make that s look right. There are some really good forgery's out there but it is always about the flow.
By the way. If you look at that photo is shows and open a

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

open d's & a's are usually a good indicator of a bad Williams

Thanks for sharing the photo! very interesting indeed

Just note that this is "usually" and not always. My Williams, which is UDA certified has an open "a" and I have no doubt that it is real.

[djson1]

Originally Posted by shelly

I was the one who pointed out the a and d. That is just the first thing you look at if either one of them is open dont buy it.
The flow is everything and how he seems to backtrack on the a. I also look at the slant of the s. It is important because the forger hesitates to make that s look right. There are some really good forgery's out there but it is always about the flow.
By the way. If you look at that photo is shows and open a

That's right, it was you who pointed that out a while back.
Great pointers...thanks, Shelly.

Aside from that open "a" on the ball on the left, I still think it's a great forged job. I wonder how many Williams' sigs I have in my collection are just good fakes!

[JimStinson]

Great Photo , I'd take Shelly's word over Ted's...Word ! Who knows if John Henry didn't do the old "switch-a roe" in the photo.
He was a pompous ass , but I probably would be too if my father was the greatest hitter ever ! he used to walk around at shows and tell dealers their Ted Williams items were fake even though they were signed by his dad weeks earlier at shows. I was in Crystal River once buying a collection and somehow he got my number and wanted me to come over and "instruct" him how to tell a "good autograph from a bad one" (30 minutes away) I did not have half a lifetime to explain it to him ...but I told him if his father would be there I would do my best .....he said he wouldn't but was snotty , so I told him adios ....piece of work that kid
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[Mr. Zipper]

While I do not profess to be a Ted Williams expert, I have done some study and agree with Shelly in that it is all about the flow.

In my opinion, Ted had a subtle herky-jerky motion that is tough to replicate. Most fakes are either a) malformed, b) way too slowly drawn, and/or the flow is too smooth looking with no "jerkiness."

[shelly]

I think that anyone can show something at one time or another that goes against the rules. I would not buy an open d or a because the chance of him doing that is 2000 to 1. Or higher.
Thanks Jim. I do think that ball is authentic.
The first photo of the ball on the left is the most common open A forgery.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

I think that anyone can show something at one time or another that goes against the rules. I would not buy an open d or a because the chance of him doing that is 2000 to 1. Or higher.
Thanks Jim. I do think that ball is authentic.
The first photo of the ball on the left is the most common open A forgery.

Friends ....when it comes to contemporary Williams , DiMaggio and Mantle ...Shelly is the guy. Take it or leave it , love it or like its a fact .......period ! I don't know why he doesn't charge money ..But be glad for the time being that his opinions are FREE ! Period !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................. ...........
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