1927 Yankees Topps Tribute Card Pulled, Consigned-Bad Ruth and Gehrig?

[baseball tourist]

Check out the video (around 1:37 mark) when they show a close up of the 1927 Yanks cuts. The Babe and the Lou don't look great to me. Your thoughts?


http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...led-consigned/

[TexasLeaguer]

Small world. I'm pretty sure I went to high school with Brian, the guy on the right in that video. Eh, maybe not. It has been a few years.

[khkco4bls]

i dont like either of them. the cross on the ruth on the t does not even come close to what ive seen. this is why i hate autos.....

[GrayGhost]

The Ruth looks AWFUL, esp the Capital B. I don't like the Lazzeri either, and the Gehrig doesn't fill me w confidence. I think its a lousy group of signatures. You would think they would go "all out" and get some great looking DEFINTELY REAL cuts for a piece like this.

[RichardSimon]

If Upper Deck can be stupid enough to use multiple forgeries in their cards, why can't Topps be stupid too?

[yanksfan09]

I agree, the Ruth looks terrible and am very leary of Gehrig as well. What kind of quality control measures do they take on these ultra "artificially rare" expensive inserts? You'd think they'd get good stuff to instill confidence in their product and buyers but I guess not. Either they don't care or are inept.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

I agree, the Ruth looks terrible and am very leary of Gehrig as well. What kind of quality control measures do they take on these ultra "artificially rare" expensive inserts? You'd think they'd get good stuff to instill confidence in their product and buyers but I guess not. Either they don't care or are inept.

Maybe they use some of our favorite authenticators. There are rumors in the hobby that some authenticators will authenticate anything.

But how much do you wanna bet that this brings big bucks. And then the winner can go through the same aggravation that the winner of that Upper Deck Legendary cuts card went through when it became obvious that there were bogus autographs on that card.
And I think they appreciate the fact that you can usually buy a bogus cut a hell of a lot cheaper than a legit cut.
They look at a real Ruth or Gehrig and a fake Ruth or Gehrig and only compare price. Why bother doing due diligence?
I also think it shows their disdane for the collector.
To them collectors are just sheep to be shorn.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Maybe they use some of our favorite authenticators. There are rumors in the hobby that some authenticators will authenticate anything.

But how much do you wanna bet that this brings big bucks. And then the winner can go through the same aggravation that the winner of that Upper Deck Legendary cuts card went through when it became obvious that there were bogus autographs on that card.
And I think they appreciate the fact that you can usually buy a bogus cut a hell of a lot cheaper than a legit cut.
They look at a real Ruth or Gehrig and a fake Ruth or Gehrig and only compare price. Why bother doing due diligence?
I also think it shows their disdane for the collector.
To them collectors are just sheep to be shorn.

Do you any of you remember that other Topps "Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig" cut earlier this year (April 2010). The one that was pulled at that hobby shop in Tewksbury. Same crap all over again.

[RichardSimon]

Ok, lets get down to the nitty gritty.
I just wrote to Beckett, through the ebay "ask a question" link and asked them who authenticated the autographs on the card.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Here is the link to the "Beckett Select" YouTube video on that card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr7Ekf1g46M

Unfortunately they have "disabled" comments under the video.

[RichardSimon]

I would expect PSA to do something like that, not Beckett.
What are they afraid of???

[thetruthisoutthere]

That auction was suppose to end on the 23rd. Looks like Beckett ended it today. No bids. It's very possible they ended because of the controversy over the Ruth and Gehrig cuts.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Just went to watch the "Beckett Media"YouTube video on the aforementioned card and guess what? The video has been changed from a "Public" video to a "Private" video. In other words, it can no longer be viewed.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Beckett Media makes this dramatic presentation of that "2010 Topps Tribute" cut autograph card giving it the "white glove" treatment on YouTube and, of course, once again there is a controversy over another Babe Ruth cut on a Topps card in 2010. Also remember, it was Beckett who was the broker for the "2005 Upper Deck' Quad Cut in which the Ruth and Johnson were deemed forgeries. As we all know by the now, Beckett Media ended the auction for the "2010 Topps Tribute" card yesterday (12/21/2010). If Topps wanted to produce such a high-end and dramatic card why didn't they spend a few extra bucks and purchase a rock-solid Ruth and Gehrig cut? You would think Topps would have learned their lesson after the "Tewksbury" Topps Cut autographs of Ruth and Gehrig. Eventually the owner of that Ruth/Gehrig cut auto card received a replacement card with a new Babe Ruth cut. Not to mention all of those Upper Deck cut autos in which part of many signatures are cut off like the auction below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SP-Legendary-QUA...item43a3a8059c

MantleRuth.jpg

Does anyone look at this stuff before it is boxed? Where the heck is the "Quality Control?" So far there are 10 "Best Offers" on the above card. Why would any collector want that card? Look at that "Mantle." Enough said.

[perezfan]

Real or fake... just the fact that they can't fit the damn autograph inside the "window" is enough to keep me away. Who on earth would prefer these partial autographs and contrived collectibles to an Index Card or unaltered Cut?

The modern cardboard designs clash horribly with these vintage autographs... and are tasteless, even in the examples that might be authentic. What a waste of time...

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Real or fake... just the fact that they can't fit the damn autograph inside the "window" is enough to keep me away. Who on earth would prefer these partial autographs and contrived collectibles to an Index Card or unaltered Cut?

The modern cardboard designs clash horribly with these vintage autographs... and are tasteless, even in the examples that might be authentic. What a waste of time...

Well written, Perez. Who in their right mind would pay thousands of dollars for half-assed autograph cuts. I'd sure like to know the "Quality Control" person that allows cuts like that to be part of a product.

[perezfan]

Maybe they are "measuring challenged". The "window" always comes up well short of the actual signature. I am sure that many of us have had autographs matted and paired up with a nice photo of the player...

Can you imagine any professional framer handing you the finished product with a good portion of the autograph cut-off behind the mat? These manufactured collectibles are beyond senseless...

[timzcardz]

Well the "card" is going back to auction, and the signatures are good!


http://beta.beckett.com/item/7667747...23#ViewArticle

Yankees’ Legendary Lineup autograph card will return to auction block
By Chris Olds
1/26/2011 1:14:17 PM


A heavily scrutinized Topps baseball card featuring the autographs of nine members of the 1927 New York Yankees has been judged to be authentic, according to more than one authentication company, and will return to the auction block on Thursday.

However, the card’s examination wasn’t without a new caveat not previously mentioned publicly as the autograph of Lou Gehrig appears to have been painted around to obscure lesser signatures near it — making it more visually appealing — according to James Spence Jr. of James Spence Authentication.
This aspect is noted on the Spence Letter of Authenticity, which will be included with the card when it is sold by Beckett Select Auctions, the consignment auction service division of Beckett Media. The auction will launch Thursday with an opening bid of $20,000. The auction will close on on Super Bowl Sunday following the game here in Dallas.

The 2010 Topps Tribute Legendary Lineup Cuts card features the signatures of Earle Combs, Mark Koenig, Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Bob Meusel, Tony Lazzeri, Joe Dugan, Pat Collins and Waite Hoyt – all on one booklet.

A redemption for the card was found by a collector in Missouri, who opted to sell the card through Beckett Select. The auction briefly ran in December with a starting bid of $20,000. However, Select ended the auction early as a precaution when it received multiple questions about the authenticity of the Ruth and Gehrig signatures.

Topps maintained its backing of the card after the auction was pulled and said it kept its authentication letters for the signatures on file — the autographs were backed by PSA/DNA. The Gehrig letter from PSA does note the modifications done to the piece of paper around the signature, something not previously disclosed to the public beyond appearing on the letter.

Topps has provided copies of the Gehrig and Ruth letters that will appear with the auction information, but the card’s new owner will not receive the letters.

What am I missing? For what legitimate purpose wouldn't Topps give the card's owner the LOAs for the autographs?

[perezfan]

Who knows... there is apparently no logic behind any of this, and for some reason, none of the traditional "rules" seem to apply to Topps.

I guess we are in the wrong business.... Is there another venue in which I can take a $2,000 Lou Gehrig autograph, then cut/alter/conform it to a piece of cardboard, then hide much of the signature behind a contrived modern paper "frame".... and sell it for 3 times what it's worth?

If so, sign me up and I'll give notice on my real job

[yanksfan09]

Does anyone here feel good about that Ruth signature. It really doesn't look right to me....

A couple other points after watching that video again:

One guys says "Unfortunatley,since it's a large booklet it can't be slabbed."!!??!?

Ummm.....Yeah I'd hope no one would ever want the thing slabbed. You could never see the signatures!!!

Also couldn't they find a more presentable Meusel cut? It's from a photo with his feet on each side of the signature. There are plenty of clean 3x5's out there....Why use that for a cut in such an expensive piece?

20 k opening bid....You could buy a 27 team signed ball or make a really nice collection of framed cuts/3x5's/checks for the whole team with pitchers and everyone!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

I, for one, am very happy that the hobby forced Topps to go the extra mile for this card. Do I still have my suspicions? Yes, but that's not the point I want to make here. The point I want to make is that no one gets "carte-blanche" any more. This all started years ago when Upper Deck released all of those bad cut signatures of Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Connie Mack (my card), etc. Then Topps had that ridiculous Babe Ruth cut that was pulled back in Feb. 2010. You think Topps would have learned their lesson after that bad "Tewksbury" Ruth; but no, instead of purchasing a rock-solid Babe Ruth, they release one that hobbyists had their suspicions about right from the beginning. No one gets "carte-blanche" any more. No one.

[GrayGhost]

It is crazy, as you would feel the card companies would not want to risk their reputations with poor forgeries. Let's all hope that this is the end of all of the fake "cuts" going into the chase cards. That way, people can get excited FOR REAL when they pull something like that. Reputation means it all, but like Truth says, you still have to earn your reputation, and don't get free passes.