High end card auctions + ebay. Would you participate?

[Fred]

How many people purchase high end cards on ebay?

If ebay created an auction format for high end cards similar to one of the big AHs, would you bid in that auction?

What if...

...ebay set up a monthly auction similar to the AHs. The auction would include initial bidding and then extended bidding. Extended bidding would only allow those that placed initial bids to enter the extended bidding. The catch is that lots would close independently after 15 minutes of no bidding.

Would something like that work?

The drawbacks would be if the sellers flaked out, but ebay could include a clause that if that were to occur, then that seller would be banned from selling on ebay in the future. Same would have to go to buyers. If the buyer flaked out, then that buyer is banned from future bidding.


I'm not a big ebay fan because it seems to be more of a dumping ground for sellers with high prices for which 95% of their inventory just sits there (kind of reminds me of the BST, these days) and gets in the way of "searches". Perhaps, that's why they have the filters. There do seem to be good sellers on ebay that actually use it as an auction format with a low starting bid. For example, Greg Morris cards.

The one difference between ebay and the AHs is that there would not be a buyers premium, but the seller would pay their fees.

[Snapolit1]

Interesting idea. If it was live could be very interesting.

Has anyone watched any of Rick Probstein’s live auctions? He has his followers …. Mostly modern stuff, basketball, etc. Rick has some surprising schtick and seems to know something about what he is selling. The fact that he has moved to live suggests to me he’s not happy with the waning interest in a lot of what he’s selling. It’s an interesting format.

And yes I know what many think of him.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

How many people purchase high end cards on ebay?

If ebay created an auction format for high end cards similar to one of the big AHs, would you bid in that auction?

What if...

...ebay set up a monthly auction similar to the AHs. The auction would include initial bidding and then extended bidding. Extended bidding would only allow those that placed initial bids to enter the extended bidding. The catch is that lots would close independently after 15 minutes of no bidding.

Would something like that work?

The drawbacks would be if the sellers flaked out, but ebay could include a clause that if that were to occur, then that seller would be banned from selling on ebay in the future. Same would have to go to buyers. If the buyer flaked out, then that buyer is banned from future bidding.


I'm not a big ebay fan because it seems to be more of a dumping ground for sellers with high prices for which 95% of their inventory just sits there (kind of reminds me of the BST, these days) and gets in the way of "searches". Perhaps, that's why they have the filters. There do seem to be good sellers on ebay that actually use it as an auction format with a low starting bid. For example, Greg Morris cards.

The one difference between ebay and the AHs is that there would not be a buyers premium, but the seller would pay their fees.

I would personally have no interest in it.

To the part I made bold. There is a auction section in the BST area that every listing starts at $1. So not everything in the BST section is overpriced.

[D. Bergin]

For some reason I’m remembering that EBay actually tried something like this years ago(like maybe 20 years ago or so), and it was a complete and utter failure.

They lack the hands on expertise to actually get something like this off the ground. It’s all about numbers crunching with them, and not much else.

[G1911]

Two of eBay’s big positives are the ease of buying, and the large amount of items available. I don’t see how it would be advantageous to abandon what they’ve done right for a new format that just mimics tons of smaller businesses. It’s not like there is not enough ways to buy cards. I don’t get what the point would be. eBay except I have to stay up bidding live and with a small curated selection of items offers me no gains.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

For some reason I’m remembering that EBay actually tried something like this years ago(like maybe 20 years ago or so), and it was a complete and utter failure.

They lack the hands on expertise to actually get something like this off the ground. It’s all about numbers crunching with them, and not much else.

Wasn't it extended bidding and it didn't last very long. I think it was around 2000.

[Jewish-collector]

Define "high end".

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Wasn't it extended bidding and it didn't last very long. I think it was around 2000.

It was a live auction platform in tandem with EBay auctions. Auction houses would sign up and take bids both through eBay and on-site. So yeah, it would have extended bidding controlled by the auction house.

I believe similar to what LiveAuctioneers does now, but using the EBay platform instead.

Turned into a huge clusterfudge.

I remember attending a live auction in the Albany, NY area that was also accepting EBay bids….a large boxing collection was involved including a ton of original Dana photos. Nearly every winning bid was an in person bid…..and I will say, I got a ton of bargains in the process. So did another boxing guy I knew (who I was secretly hoping wouldn’t show ) who showed up. Stuff went for way lower than if they had just run straight EBay auctions.

The program ended up creating a lot of confusion and not really working out for anyone involved outside of a few savvy/lucky bidders.

[raulus]

I guess I don’t follow the premise.

There are plenty of high end cards that have been auctioned on eBay using a low starting bid. Prepandemic, it wasn’t uncommon to see cards in the 5 and even low 6 figure range get auctioned. While some of those auctions have gone away due to PWCC moving off the platform, and more and more inventory moving to the AHs, there is certainly a strong history of high end stuff being auctioned on eBay using their standard format.

If I had to guess, any number of us participated in those auctions, and probably won plenty.

But maybe there’s some reason why those past auctions don’t count towards your thought exercise?

[Exhibitman]

Don't look now but eBay Live is in beta mode.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would personally have no interest in it.

To the part I made bold. There is a auction section in the BST area that every listing starts at $1. So not everything in the BST section is overpriced.

That's probably my favorite section in the BST. It's nice because there aren't items fresh from an AH auction that are being pedaled for 30% (or more) of the final hammer price from the AH.

Originally Posted by G1911

Two of eBay’s big positives are the ease of buying, and the large amount of items available. I don’t see how it would be advantageous to abandon what they’ve done right for a new format that just mimics tons of smaller businesses. It’s not like there is not enough ways to buy cards. I don’t get what the point would be. eBay except I have to stay up bidding live and with a small curated selection of items offers me no gains.

I wasn't thinking ebay would abandon their format, that would be totally crazy. I was thinking more along the lines of a premium monthly auction to draw more interest to their business and attract bidders that normally avoid ebay because of it's reputation.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

For some reason I’m remembering that EBay actually tried something like this years ago(like maybe 20 years ago or so), and it was a complete and utter failure.

They lack the hands on expertise to actually get something like this off the ground. It’s all about numbers crunching with them, and not much else.

That is so true. They would have to really think it out and figure an angle to draw interest to something like this. It is an auction site so why not experiment to see how to draw in more bidders and have a little fun in the process.

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Define "high end".

How about items that would normally sell for $1K or more, but these days, that seems to be just about anything that people really want. Maybe they could "theme" the auctions and have all T206s and then have another with E cards. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

It was a live auction platform in tandem with EBay auctions. Auction houses would sign up and take bids both through eBay and on-site. So yeah, it would have extended bidding controlled by the auction house.

I believe similar to what LiveAuctioneers does now, but using the EBay platform instead.

Turned into a huge clusterfudge.

I remember attending a live auction in the Albany, NY area that was also accepting EBay bids….a large boxing collection was involved including a ton of original Dana photos. Nearly every winning bid was an in person bid…..and I will say, I got a ton of bargains in the process. So did another boxing guy I knew (who I was secretly hoping wouldn’t show ) who showed up. Stuff went for way lower than if they had just run straight EBay auctions.

The program ended up creating a lot of confusion and not really working out for anyone involved outside of a few savvy/lucky bidders.

I couldn't imagine other AHs being involved. If they were involved then they'd have to abide by the extended bidding and closing rules set forth by ebay.

The beauty is the ending format. Extended bidding to continue for 15 minutes and then not end until there is no bidding on the lot for 15 minutes. The lots would close independently. To me, that's one of the things I really dislike about the typical AHs, most close all the lots at one time. If the lots closed independently, then that would push people to put up or shut up sooner and end the carziness where people on the east coast are up to all hours of the AM.

Originally Posted by raulus

I guess I don’t follow the premise.

There are plenty of high end cards that have been auctioned on eBay using a low starting bid. Prepandemic, it wasn’t uncommon to see cards in the 5 and even low 6 figure range get auctioned. While some of those auctions have gone away due to PWCC moving off the platform, and more and more inventory moving to the AHs, there is certainly a strong history of high end stuff being auctioned on eBay using their standard format.

If I had to guess, any number of us participated in those auctions, and probably won plenty.

But maybe there’s some reason why those past auctions don’t count towards your thought exercise?

This wouldn't be the standard format. This would be lots closing independently after 15 minutes of no bids. That's the big difference. With the current ebay format, people use snipe services. What this does is allow people to reconsider their bids because what happens if the snipe misses it because of a "lag" in network service or the bidder thinks "damn, I should have bid a little more". That gives the bidder the opportunity to rethink and rebid because the closing is after 15 minutes of NO bids.


I'd like to see it. Perhaps it would "inspire" AHs to modify their closings so that people aren't waiting all night for the auction to close. A 15 minute no bid limit for the closing would seem reasonable to me. If someone really wants it, they'll bid on it. I'm going to guess that someone will say, "yeah, but if they get outbid on somethings in the auction, the late closing allows them to bid on other things". I get that, but this auction format would say "crap or get off the pot". If you really want it, bid on it.


I like our variety of AHs we have, but a little innovation and competition is always healthy. Maybe somethings change for the positive. Again, just thinking out loud and wondering if people would prefer an independent lot closing format that isn't a fixed time, but based on the loss of bidding interest which leads to the lot closing.

[Section103]

I dont really see the need for a large number of cards to go to auction and end at the same time. I'd just like to see "high end" (thats subjective) go to auction on ebay again. If that happened, the buyers would be there for sure.

[raulus]

Now that I understand the premise, I’m not sure why there’s any question.

If we are willing to participate in this format for every other AH for high end stuff, it would seem like a no brainer to participate in a similar auction run by eBay.

Unless the crux of the matter is that we find eBay to be odious, so we wouldn’t buy stuff on their platform, period.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Fred

...people on the east coast are up to all hours of the AM...

...or waking up in the morning to find that the auction is still open and going strong...

[jfkheat]

The problem with selling high end cards on eBay vs auction houses is that eBay makes their money off of the seller while auction houses make most of their's off of the buyer. Sellers with a lot of high end cards can negotiate consignment rates with the auction house but they can't with eBay.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

The problem with selling high end cards on eBay vs auction houses is that eBay makes their money off of the seller while auction houses make most of their's off of the buyer. Sellers with a lot of high end cards can negotiate consignment rates with the auction house but they can't with eBay.

I get you, and that’s a good point.

At the same time, when it comes to 5 and 6 figure sales, eBay’s rates on a percentage basis are pretty low, especially if you’re willing to spend a few bucks to get one of their stores.

[ricktmd]

Having been an ebay user focused on pre 1930 baseball since the mid 90's I find this post interesting and curious both. I am not sure you are aware but there was a time where all ebay did was auction. By year 2000 many collectors were now auctioning on ebay which drastically impacted smaller auction houses, putting most or at least many smaller auction houses out of business. In some cases the smaller auction houses ran their auctions on ebay as thats where the eyes were. At a card show every other word out of dealers and collectors was "ebay this or that". Out of nowhere ebay pivoted to the buy it now format and successfully killed off most of their pre war baseball auctions. Over the the next few years new small auction houses sprung up not using ebay. At the time I regularly called trying to reach someone of stature at ebay (which was possible 20 years plus ago) and their answer was they were having a lot of issues with auctions including shill bidding and misrepresentation of product, so they decided being and auction house for pricey pre war baseball or other collectibles was difficult for them to manage. Also I was pitched that the same dealers or collectors could now use buy it now which was cleaner and had less issues. At first it seemed to work but over time the buy it now format became the ebay museum.

As a footnote to this I dont think ebay is interested in becoming more involved in auctions (unless someone has heard different), other than how GMC or others currently do it. PWCC and its issues along with complaints, time consuming human resources, and bidding issues are not what they want. I would enjoy a high end auction format on a monthly basis with ebay and think its a good idea. Without some sort of change in philosophy or large $ promises I think ebay would just say feel free to auction under the current rules. Another interesting note is ebay has instituted seller limits. I was told in part due to sellers putting 100's of items at very high prices that dont sell as well as offering items they dont have and try to procure once an item sells.

[Bicem]

I pitched a similar idea to eBay about 6 months ago in a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation when I was interviewing for a Category Manager job in sports cards.

They understand the potential but are not really interested in competing against their biggest sellers like Probstein.

[Fred]

How did the ebay interview go? Do they seem like they are interested in improving what they currently have for sports cards? Or did they seem to like the status quo?

If there's one thing I really dislike about the current AH environment, it's the extended bidding and in most cases that all lots close at the same time.

I can predict that someone will try and provide the advice to put a higher ceiling bid in. My response is that I don't have an unlimited budget for cardboard I can pick and choose things so that if I get outbid on something, then I can put the allocated hobby money towards something else. Call it my version of working with a hobby budget.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Fred

...someone will try and provide the advice to put a higher ceiling bid in. My response is that I don't have an unlimited budget for cardboard I can pick and choose things so that if I get outbid on something, then I can put the allocated hobby money towards something else...

I'm often in the same boat. There have been auctions in which I've seen dozens of interesting items. Winning two or three of these at roughly market value is fine. Getting invoiced for 25 or 30 items *might* cause a bit of domestic tension.

I enjoy auctions that end lot-by-lot. I place marker bids early and then begin whittling down the list of realistic options (my watch list) as the bids climb.

By the time extended bidding starts, I've usually got a small handful of targets. As lots begin to close, I've either won items or I can bid more aggressively on targets that are still open. Without this knowledge (basically my "budget" for the auction) I would be more conservative.

[Leon]

Makes (money) sense. And isn't that what it's always about?

As to the original question, I would bid in those high end auctions just like I have any other ones since about '98...

Originally Posted by Bicem

I pitched a similar idea to eBay about 6 months ago in a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation when I was interviewing for a Category Manager job in sports cards.

They understand the potential but are not really interested in competing against their biggest sellers like Probstein.

[Seven]

To answer the question, If I was making a high end card, ebay wouldn't be one of the places I use, unless serious changes from the top down, were made.

Being a member here, I'd rather deal with someone from the board. Chances are, If I'm searching for a card and I have the cash in hand, someone here on Net54 has the card and is willing to sell. Either that or someone, knows someone that has the card.

But I also think, it depends on your definition of a high end card.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Fred

How did the ebay interview go? Do they seem like they are interested in improving what they currently have for sports cards? Or did they seem to like the status quo?

I had to sign an NDA so I can't say too much, but they seemed hyper focused on their initiatives like Vault and eBay Live more than anything else.

[Schlesinj]

They seemed to make a big time sponsorship interest in the Philly Show last month. They had a whole “fancy” area in the middle of the hall. It was a large area carpeted with focused cards in single large cases. Not sure if that was a one time advertisement or some ongoing commitment.

[Snowman]

Yes, I would. And I already do. They've recently added the ability to pay for higher priced items by bank wire. Makes it easier.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Bicem

I pitched a similar idea to eBay about 6 months ago in a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation when I was interviewing for a Category Manager job in sports cards.

They understand the potential but are not really interested in competing against their biggest sellers like Probstein.

I had a phone interview with a recruiter at ebay a while back for a data science role in the collectibles space, but I didn't follow through with it. I have several friends that work there as well as some who previously worked there. They were primarily interested in building a price prediction model at the time, which they've since launched, somewhat anyhow. Part of that effort required the need for better categorization of cards, which is why they now require things like graded vs raw, technical grade, set and year, player name, etc. It would be easy to build something useful and robust for vintage, but ultra modern cards make it a real nightmare with all the variations and more colors than the rainbow by an order of magnitude. I didn't have to sign an NDA, but I probably would have if I decided to pursue the role and interviewed on site.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'd like to see it. Perhaps it would "inspire" AHs to modify their closings so that people aren't waiting all night for the auction to close. A 15 minute no bid limit for the closing would seem reasonable to me. If someone really wants it, they'll bid on it. I'm going to guess that someone will say, "yeah, but if they get outbid on somethings in the auction, the late closing allows them to bid on other things". I get that, but this auction format would say "crap or get off the pot". If you really want it, bid on it.

I feel like more and more auctions have moved away from the "whoever stays up the latest wins" model.

I know from day one we were 15 minute clock and items close individually. We're almost always done by midnight eastern time.

[Snapolit1]

I thinik there is a spy in our midst. Just sayin.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...card-auctions/

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I thinik there is a spy in our midst. Just sayin.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...card-auctions/

Now that's funny. Anybody that reads my posts would know "it aint me" because they're using the word "Marquee" to describe a card auction that has new and shiny crap. I wonder if this "Marquee" format has auctions that close 15 minutes after the last bid is received.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I thinik there is a spy in our midst. Just sayin.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...card-auctions/

Pretty much exactly what I pitched only I called it eBay curated and had them actually take possession of the consignment.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

vast majority are Probstein cards.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

vast majority are Probstein cards.

At REM would sing, “shiny happy people” on new cards.