PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Also, Collectors Universe's coin grading company once tried to sue dealers who allegedly intentionally submitted doctored coins claiming the dealers were liable and not CU for the damages. CU's case was tossed out of court. I don't see any difference here.

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible.

Exactly.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

Spot on...

Sure PWCC is slimy as hell, and should be put out of business. But it's the highly defective/contradictory/inept/favorable (take your pick of adjectives) PSA Grading that makes every aspect of this scandal possible.

The fact that they try to weasel out of their meaningless "guarantee" is just more icing on the rotting cake.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Spot on...

Sure PWCC is slimy as hell, and should be put out of business. But it's the highly defective/contradictory/inept/favorable (take your pick of adjectives) PSA Grading that makes every aspect of this scandal possible.

The fact that they try to weasel out of their meaningless "guarantee" is just more icing on the rotting cake.

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by drcy

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

People doctoring cards, people knowingly selling doctored cards, and TPGs who are supposed to protect collectors against this somehow slabbing countless doctored cards. It's enough to make you ill.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by drcy

It's not an either/or. Many cases involve multiple guilty parties.

Yes, of course there are multiple guilty parties, which have been at work for a lot longer than this scandal has been readily apparent.

The PSA portion is the most damaging long-term, as their seal of approval gives the card an automatic "thumbs-up" to every facet of the secondary market, auction house and eBay. Hundreds (perhaps thousands) of questionable PSA-approved cards will infiltrate all of our favorite auction houses. No doubt, they already have.

Moser/PWCC is a major gateway.... and from there, it's anyone's guess where and when they will again surface.

[Johnny630]

PSA will hope this blows over....let’s take a poll what PSA will Do?

I’m saying nothing....after the National This will all be a afterthought..sadly to many Sheeple to the Registry and Uber Wealthy High Profile People with Big 6 figure plus cards in their holders .it’s very sad....I have Zero Confidence PSA ...it’s always the pure hardcore collectors who take it on the ass...

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

PSA will hope this blows over....let’s take a poll what PSA will Do?

I’m saying nothing....after the National This will all be a afterthought..sadly to many Sheeple to the Registry and Uber Wealthy High Profile People with Big 6 figure plus cards in their holders .it’s very sad....I have Zero Confidence PSA ...it’s always the pure hardcore collectors who take it on the ass...

I wondered a while, back but, with the continuing onslaught and publicity, I think it will deeply affect PSA. Even if collectors still collect PSA, I find it hard to believe that minor increments in grade (8 versus 9, 9 versus 10) will have the same valuation.

Duly note, I think professional grading, in theory, is a good thing. I think it's good to have an independent authenticator (something they're good at), and can understand the desire for a quick hird opinion on grade in online sales. However, I've loooong thought the fetish for number grades wasn't based (much less priced) in anything rational. The chickens have come home to roose on the latter, and much it lays not at the feet of graders but the collectors.

I think this could actually possibly be the death knell for PSA, and, at the least, the scandal will alter how graded cards are prices (and obviously downward not upward). I don't see how collectors will price graded cards the same way they used to.

I predict that, for one reason and/or other (legal, financial), PWCC will be gone before long.

The funny thing (not necessarily as in ha ha funny) is PWCC was an advisement advisor and building things up as investments, but will have himself tanked the investments.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drcy

I wondered a while, back but, with the continuing onslaught and publicity, I think it will deeply affect PSA. Even if collectors still collect PSA, I find it hard to believe that minor increments in grade (8 versus 9, 9 versus 10) will have the same valuation.

Duly note, I think professional grading, in theory, is a good thing. I think it's good to have an independent authenticator (something they're good at), and can understand the desire for a quick hird opinion on grade in online sales. However, I've loooong thought the fetish for number grades wasn't based (much less priced) in anything rational. The chickens have come home to roose on the latter, and much it lays not at the feet of graders but the collectors.

I think this could actually possibly be the death knell for PSA, and, at the least, the scandal will alter how graded cards are prices (and obviously downward not upward). I don't see how collectors will price graded cards the same way they used to.

I predict that, for one reason and/or other (legal, financial), PWCC will be gone before long.

The funny thing (not necessarily as in ha ha funny) is PWCC was an advisement advisor and building things up as investments, but will have himself tanked the investments.

Sadly, I don't think it will affect them at all.
Return the card to the seller-
The seller who is crooked, and will simply crack out and resubmit to get a new "clean" serial number.
PSA gets a bit more money, the cards are now "fine" and get resold in a year or two, or maybe less. The people who buy the PSA line, or for whom it's all about the money will still pay big bucks for the same cards that they had to return earlier. The only ones happy are PSA and the seller.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah, invest in my altered cards, especially the ones with the shiny stickers. Great advice. And it would have gone on, forever, had he not been caught.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think people need to take note of this. It's PSA wanting to pass the buck for their incompetency. PSA is the grader and authenticator. They are the ones to blame for this mess, nobody else. PSA certified these, PSA needs to be the one financially responsible. I hope a year from now we refer to PSA just like we do GAI, just another defunct grading company.

David, You have to be kidding right? They are still PSA.... Do you guys think that SGC doesn't have any issues? Look at some of their high end, high dollar cards recently with huge Sellers. I have seen very recent T206s graded SGC 84 and 86's that look like 5's... Bottom line, this corruption is everywhere, period....

[Exhibitman]

1: Don't forget Beckett. In dollar value the cards on which they screwed the pooch may exceed the PSA mistakes.

2: It is unforgivable that PSA and Beckett are not up front assuring the collector base that they will compensate anyone who got ripped off with these altered cards in their holders. After all, the reason we are at this point is that PSA and Beckett suck giant elephant ass at the one thing they are paid to do; no amount of criminality in the creation and processing of these cards can change that fact. Each doctored card was in PSA or Beckett for an evaluation and they f***ed up every single one of them. That isn't the seller's fault it is the grader's fault.

I'm so sick of the whole thing...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

1: Don't forget Beckett. In dollar value the cards on which they screwed the pooch may exceed the PSA mistakes.

2: It is unforgivable that PSA and Beckett are not up front assuring the collector base that they will compensate anyone who got ripped off with these altered cards in their holders. After all, the reason we are at this point is that PSA and Beckett suck giant elephant ass at the one thing they are paid to do; no amount of criminality in the creation and processing of these cards can change that fact. Each doctored card was in PSA or Beckett for an evaluation and they f***ed up every single one of them. That isn't the seller's fault it is the grader's fault.

I'm so sick of the whole thing...

Adam, you and I both know nothing proactive like that will ever happen here. It will be the same old bullshit of denying, deflecting, disingenuously minimizing the scope of the problem, and falsely reassuring people it's all been contained and fixed. Beckett may not say anything at all. If the guys on Blowout are to be believed, there is an incestuous relationship there between the company and major trimmers. Sloan's statement was maddening beyond belief.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Adam, you and I both know nothing proactive like that will ever happen here. It will be the same old bullshit of denying, deflecting, disingenuously minimizing the scope of the problem, and falsely reassuring people it's all been contained and fixed.

No doubt this will be the case. This has been PSA's modus operandi for decades.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

No doubt this will be the case. This has been PSA's modus operandi for decades.

The same decades they apparently have been taking Gary's and everyone else's subs.

A subpoena or discovery request would be so much fun.

[barrysloate]

Time for PSA to do a recall, the same as the airbag fiasco or the ecoli tainted lettuce. Yes, it will cost them a lot of money, but that is the only way to make things right. And I'm holding my breath until it gets done.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The same decades they apparently have been taking Gary's and everyone else's subs.

A subpoena or discovery request would be so much fun.

Yeah it would! I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that too.

I'd love to get a forensic computer examiner and a forensic document examiner to look over ebay, PSA, Beckett, SGC and PWCC. What do you think they'd find? Conspiracy to commit fraud, shill bidding, RICO violations, wire or mail fraud perhaps?

I think there is enough physical evidence already and not just in Huigens and PSA's own statements and actions. What many collectors or dealers might not understand or realize, is that the government might not see these things the same way they do as "fraud has always been done and therefore acceptable". And they might not look the other way as collectors and dealers tend to do just by the sheer amount of money and the fact that one of these companies -Collectors Universe -is publicly traded.

Law enforcement agencies like the FBI or SEC dont care what collectors say, and they'll build a case against the "well respected" or higher-ups of the hobby, and if they can, prosecute. If you dont believe me, just ask Bill Mastro and Doug Allen, and a whole slew of counterfeiters, forgers and scammers.

The only saving grace against law enforcement is perhaps a jury who might not understand any of this. Law enforcement's case will have to be made on what could be found on the computers, emails, phone records and before and after photos -the same ones that Huigens says are irrelevant. The amount of money being made and actually follow the money. I'd expect something like this to take a year at least of examination and we're talking at least 5 companies, 14 card or more doctors dating back 2011. Remember, how long did it take the FBI to investigate Mastro again?