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  #11  
Old 07-30-2017, 05:19 PM
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Lordstan Lordstan is offline
Mark V.
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I agree that for the prices the public is paying the cert should be included, but the one thing that is missing in your calculations is that the promoter COA costs nothing for them to give out except a little in printing costs. PSA/JSA are separate companies that the promoters would have to pay to provide the service. That would cut into their profit or would mean that the autos would be $10 more.
The reality is that for those who need certs to buy autos, a show cert may not mean much. The TPAs are "independant" and have successfully marketed themselves as "The" authorities, so they can get away with charging more for their services. Right or wrong, there is a portion of the population that will only buy certed items.
Personally, I would never pay for certification of anything unless I was going to be selling it in the short term, especially if I just saw it autographed in front of me.
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2017, 05:24 PM
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Randall Hahn
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Always take a picture. If it is a unique item then it is proof positive. The cool thing about in person autographs was that they used to let you take a picture for free. Look at my icon of me and Joe D. But they pretty much stopped letting you do that. But you can still get a picture of them signing your item.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2017, 09:25 PM
biohazard biohazard is offline
d.ean
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COAs are a license to print money. There was a time when each signer had a stack of COAs next to them at the table. Then COAs started costing $5-$10. Then the big sell was online COA. Look up the COA for the signed item at any time, day or night! The thing is when these COA companies go belly-up (and they will) will the COA database remain online in perpetuity? The answer is "no". Case in point. The former owner of CSA, used to have online COA at every show. I don't know if the former owner had a piece of the COA business or the business was subbed out to another company. In any event COA online is toast. It will take the collective memory of hobbiests to remember if such a coa company even existed. Hobbiests will likely remember JSA, Upper Deck, perhaps Schwartz, Steiner to name a few. As another poster said take a picture. Keep the ticket stub (if possible, CSA does, MAB does not). Keep a show flier, advertisement in the paper, email from the company, something that proves the event took place, there is no reason to spend money on a COA.
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2017, 09:50 PM
lrspaulp lrspaulp is offline
Paul Peters
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Great discussion. And I thank everyone thus far for their opinions.
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2017, 10:23 PM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
Curt
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A COA is only "necessary" if you are looking to sell an item at a later date and want a little extra comfort for the potential buyer. The problem is that fake autos often come with COAs as well. It is a sad reality of autograph collecting that turned into big business and wherever there is a chance for fraud in business, it will materialize.

Perhaps I will take a small profit loss if I ever sell my stuff, but I really don't care. I have never collected with the intention of selling, so if I lose a few $$ because I don't have a COA, so be it. I certainly would never pay extra for a COA.
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2017, 01:53 AM
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Gary Dunaier Gary Dunaier is offline
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These COAs they sell at shows... do the people who issue them actually see the item being signed? Or is it "a matter of trust?"

A few years ago, there was an autograph show at Citi Field. PSA/DNA provided authentication services. If memory serves me right, the way it worked was that once you got your autograph and left the area, you'd go to another table, show the receipt for your autograph, and the representative would look at the item, place a hologram sticker on it, and enter the information in the computer - but the representative did not actually see the items being signed.

Is this method still done, or was what I saw not the norm?
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  #17  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:24 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier View Post
These COAs they sell at shows... do the people who issue them actually see the item being signed? Or is it "a matter of trust?"

A few years ago, there was an autograph show at Citi Field. PSA/DNA provided authentication services. If memory serves me right, the way it worked was that once you got your autograph and left the area, you'd go to another table, show the receipt for your autograph, and the representative would look at the item, place a hologram sticker on it, and enter the information in the computer - but the representative did not actually see the items being signed.

Is this method still done, or was what I saw not the norm?
I remember them doing the exact same thing. I mean, what would stop someone from having something signed, and then taking a forgery over to be "authenticated". They then have a bad one that's already passed, and a good one they could easily sell without a sticker. Weird.
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  #18  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:36 PM
lrspaulp lrspaulp is offline
Paul Peters
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier View Post
These COAs they sell at shows... do the people who issue them actually see the item being signed? Or is it "a matter of trust?"

A few years ago, there was an autograph show at Citi Field. PSA/DNA provided authentication services. If memory serves me right, the way it worked was that once you got your autograph and left the area, you'd go to another table, show the receipt for your autograph, and the representative would look at the item, place a hologram sticker on it, and enter the information in the computer - but the representative did not actually see the items being signed.

Is this method still done, or was what I saw not the norm?
At the MAB show last week in Cooperstown, the JSA table was set up outside, in front of the Tunnicliff. Now, you go in the front door and have to exit out the back, and walk back out front and stand in line.........NO ONE sees you get the autographed item. So, in theory, you could have Rickey Henderson sign a photo, have a fake get the JSA COA and sell the fake. Makes NO sense the way it was set up. Now, at the Dave & Adams show I went to after you get your item signed, you have to pass the table to get the COA before you leave and if you leave you can't come back to get the COA. That makes much better sense and I wasn't charged for the COA there but you had to pay JSA at the MAB show.
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2017, 06:58 AM
biohazard biohazard is offline
d.ean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier View Post
These COAs they sell at shows... do the people who issue them actually see the item being signed? Or is it "a matter of trust?"

A few years ago, there was an autograph show at Citi Field. PSA/DNA provided authentication services. If memory serves me right, the way it worked was that once you got your autograph and left the area, you'd go to another table, show the receipt for your autograph, and the representative would look at the item, place a hologram sticker on it, and enter the information in the computer - but the representative did not actually see the items being signed.

Is this method still done, or was what I saw not the norm?
Still the norm, but I have seen video/picture authentication. Just another way to make even more money. A few years back, JSA was exposed over the casual way certs are verified.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/wp-cont...-Bando-JSA.mp4

Now, it is Sal Bando. I would argue that the Sal Bando market is not as lucrative as say the market for a Mantle signature. I don't think the process would have varied if Mantle was signing instead of Bando. If collectors are hell bent on certs, the process is easily fixed. Have a certifier at each signers table (more staff = more expense). If the item leaves the table it is not certified. I am sure collectors would pay for a picture/video of the actual signing of the item. Promoters offer expensive photo ops with players, why not a private signing of your item before the signer heads to the main floor?

Again, save some money and create your own provenance (aka peace of mind) keep the ticket stub (at MAB take a picture of the ticket, same with Tristar), keep the sales receipt, keep a show flier or create a pdf file of the promoters email announcing the show, a newspaper clipping. Heck, I have even kept toll receipts to prove that I was at a certain location on a given date.

Save your money!
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:37 AM
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Stampsfan Stampsfan is offline
Bob Davies
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Default It's Not Just Baseball Autographs

I was at a local comic expo a few years ago, and got a couple of Silver Aged comics signed by Stan Lee. CGC was certifying the autographs at the show, and eventually (like nine months later) they showed up with the yellow label.

Anyhow, the line for Stan Lee was nuts. Then you went to another area around 30 yards away, and lined up to fill in the CGC paperwork. There was ZERO checking that when you left the line to get Stan Lee's signature, you went straight to the CGC line.

There was so much opportunity to just walk into the CGC line with any item. Plenty of opportunity for fraud.

Further info: With CGC, they put the date and event on the yellow label. The credibility of this information is seriously in doubt.
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