the crazy price thread...

[irv]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

https://www.goodwinandco.com/mobile/...entoryid=33087

Thats the one everyone will be talking about tomorrow.

Wow! Over $80,000!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

The Koufax went for many multiples of a what a nice vg '55 set would go for.

what was SMR on the Koufax

[begsu1013]

.

[irv]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

https://www.goodwinandco.com/mobile/...entoryid=33087

Thats the one everyone will be talking about tomorrow.

Just trying to gauge here. If this 8 sold for just over $80,000 what would, assuming all things being equal, a 9 then a 10 go for?

[ullmandds]

Goodwin typically brings very strong prices. No evidence of Shilling im aware of...but I have always been skeptical(surprise surprse)!

QUOTE=begsu1013;1556897]i don't know much about goodwin auctions*,

but what is the consensus on his reputability?

things like shilling, are they trustworthy, dubious past or anything?

trying to gauge the validity of this one...






* i bought my 51b signed mantle in an auction a while back. first and last time i ever logged on to his site. i never follow/bid in private auction houses.[/QUOTE]

[Eric72]

$80,000 for an 8. The "new normal" is insane.

[pawpawdiv9]

Hot potato!!
Someone hurry up and buy that 7 in the BST for 7k, its nice!!!
I cant believe the insanity.

[irv]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Hot potato!!
Someone hurry up and buy that 7 in the BST for 7k, its nice!!!
I cant believe the insanity.

Considering what the 8 got, I'd say it's a deal as well.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i don't know much about goodwin auctions*,

but what is the consensus on his reputability?

things like shilling, are they trustworthy, dubious past or anything?

trying to gauge the validity of this one...






* i bought my 51b signed mantle in an auction a while back. first and last time i ever logged on to his site. i never follow/bid in private auction houses.

Bill is a member here and has discussed a couple of other auctions that ended with what seemed like crazy prices at the time. I've had a couple of conversations with him but don't know him personally. I have no reason to doubt his credibility or the validity of his auctions.

Whether or not 80k will be the new standard for a centered 8 Koufax remains to be seen, but that's a lot more than I would have guessed even in today's market.

[botn]

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973

I don't think that price is that crazy at all. That SGC 6 is a pretty great example of that card, and in a grade that does not surface too often. Better than average centering with very sharp registration. I follow Mantle prices and the 7s are now $100,000 cards. A 6 for less than half the 7s seems reasonable.

Looks like 6s came down a touch. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...p2047675.l2557 Not sure the winner of the SGC 6 is feeling the price he paid was too reasonable, now. Can you say MARKET CORRECTION?

[MetsBaseball1973]

I dunno. That was a pretty lo-end 6. Had a stain on back and very poor focus and centering. The NY symbol on the cap is so blurry. The 7 PWCC has up is even uglier IMHO. If these were prettier cards I think the prices would be very different.

[begsu1013]

.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

agreed on that 7. oc and horrible registration.

i think $48k was a pretty decent price for it actually.

plus historically, prices tend to dip before the national

let alone week of.

edit: and looks like it more than doubled the last vcp price.

Not sure why prices would dip before the National...the prices at the National are usually not competitive with comparable cards on ebay...no reason to wait to go the National to pay more (assuming same looking card etc is on ebay)

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

https://www.goodwinandco.com/mobile/...entoryid=33087

Thats the one everyone will be talking about tomorrow.

PSA 8 Koufax rookie sold for 18k last night on Ebay/PWCC. Is the hype dying down or have we been seeing false sales?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by rats60

PSA 8 Koufax rookie sold for 18k last night on Ebay/PWCC. Is the hype dying down or have we been seeing false sales?

hype? for overproduced 50's-60's HOF'ers??????????

it appears quite obvious what has been going on here...open your eyes folks!

[botn]

Originally Posted by rats60

PSA 8 Koufax rookie sold for 18k last night on Ebay/PWCC. Is the hype dying down or have we been seeing false sales?

Some might tell you this 8 was not centered well or was a low end example but I will stick to my conclusion, which is a market correction and let the dreamers dream and the spinners spin. Very clear what is taking place. It was clear when this game began where things would end up.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

hype? for overproduced 50's-60's HOF'ers??????????

it appears quite obvious what has been going on here...open your eyes folks!

disagree on "overproduced" .....

kinda sorta agree on the other part

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Neal

disagree on "overproduced" .....

kinda sorta agree on the other part

fair enough...i retract the "overproduced" comment...how about common?

[1961 Fleer Guy]

Last night PWCC auctioned off a 1969 Lew Alcinder (R) in PSA 9. The population for this card in PSA 9 is 18. The price guide says the card is worth $17,500. The card sold for over $73,000. Does this qualify for crazy price?

[irv]

Originally Posted by rats60

PSA 8 Koufax rookie sold for 18k last night on Ebay/PWCC. Is the hype dying down or have we been seeing false sales?

I posted one that sold for $80,600 then another 8 that sold for $23,000, and now this one sells for $18,000. Hard to say with 100% certainty, but I'd say things are either bursting or we're in a correction period at the moment?

I have also been watching some Mantles, (and others) as of late and it could just be me, but I also believe they are not fetching what they once were just a short time ago?

Originally Posted by 1961 Fleer Guy

Last night PWCC auctioned off a 1969 Lew Alcinder (R) in PSA 9. The population for this card in PSA 9 is 18. The price guide says the card is worth $17,500. The card sold for over $73,000. Does this qualify for crazy price?

Just a guess, but this may have to do with the fact that Basketball cards are far more scarce/rare than what baseball cards are?

With most collectibles such as coins, art, stamps, comic books, etc, etc, their prices are based on rarity rather than popularity imo. Maybe this is what is now happening in the card market too?

[MetsBaseball1973]

Originally Posted by irv

I posted one that sold for $80,600 then another 8 that sold for $23,000, and now this one sells for $18,000. Hard to say with 100% certainty, but I'd say things are either bursting or we're in a correction period at the moment?

I have also been watching some Mantles, (and others) as of late and it could just be me, but I also believe they are not fetching what they once were just a short time ago?



Just a guess, but this may have to do with the fact that Basketball cards are far more scarce/rare than what baseball cards are?

With most collectibles such as coins, art, stamps, comic books, etc, etc, their prices are based on rarity rather than popularity imo. Maybe this is what is now happening in the card market too?

Three Mantles I was watching (just checked to be sure, a PSA 7 '56, a PSA 7 '59, and a PSA 9 '69) all sold the other day in line with the highs. All were really nice looking cards. I had a little war chest to spend but lost on the first two. Congrats to whoever won them.

[irv]

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973

Several PWCC Mantles (just checked to be sure, the PSA 7 '56, the PSA 7 '59, and the PSA 9 '69) all sold the other day in line with the highs. All were really nice looking cards. I had a little war chest to spent but lost on the first two. Congrats to whoever won them.

I was watching the PWCC ones, and although the final prices were decent, I suspected, considering the current price craze we are/were all experiencing, that they would sell for a lot more, or at least be on pace with what we have been seeing as of late?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...vip=true&rt=nc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...vip=true&rt=nc

[MetsBaseball1973]

That PSA 1 of that 311 was on target with expectation, I thought nine to ten thousand, a little over the average on VCP.

That PSA 4 actually is a record high on VCP, about 10,000 smackers over the prior sale. Strong I think with the card being accurate to grade but not like anything special.

[irv]

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973

That PSA 1 of that 311 was on target with expectation, I thought nine to ten thousand, a little over the average on VCP.

That PSA 4 actually is a record high on VCP, about 10,000 smackers over the prior sale. Strong I think with the card being accurate to grade but not like anything special.

I just thought, based on what we have seen lately with the current, (or maybe now corrected?) price craze, it would have sold for a lot higher?
This one sold over a year ago for not a lot less.
http://www.goodwinandco.com/1952_top...-lot30283.aspx

I have noticed PSA 1's stay fairly consistent or with relatively small increases from time to time.

[MetsBaseball1973]

I guess it all depends on each person's expectations. For me, I see great cards for the grade ticking up steady with random spikes here and there, and so-so cards leveling off.

Forgot that Goodwin has a 4.5 SGC of the 311 that is already at 50,000. And there was the PSA 4 dead center that sold for 67,000. Month ago maybe?
Agree the ones have remained kinda steady as of late. I hope to get a one at 8500 cash maybe soon.

[begsu1013]

.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

do your research. they always drop...

the only better buying opportunity that i have noticed is for auctions scheduled to close on superbowl sunday.

but i doubt the fact that koufax and clemente prices are not tripling anymore (how could they), that the entire rc hof bubble is bursting. as stated, a weak mantle 7 more than doubled.

i do anxiously await the day that the entire buying group/bubble bursting run is over though.

It appears the prices havent dipped though with the Mantles and other cards cited above at least nothing noticeable...sgc 4.5 mantle already at 50k etc...wheres the dip on the cards that shape the market..

[bobbyw8469]

I posted one that sold for $80,600 then another 8 that sold for $23,000, and now this one sells for $18,000. Hard to say with 100% certainty, but I'd say things are either bursting or we're in a correction period at the moment?

LOL....is this a correction period, or just a simple case of one month of sales from a small group of buyers trying to "pump up" the market that had no legs? I mean, $80,000 for a PSA 8 when, just this past February, this was an $8,000 card???

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

LOL....is this a correction period, or just a simple case of one month of sales from a small group of buyers trying to "pump up" the market that had no legs? I mean, $80,000 for a PSA 8 when, just this past February, this was an $8,000 card???

i have a feeling that 80k never changed hands on that card.

[begsu1013]

.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i would have to concur that as well.

but again on the price dips, do your own research.

if you dont think prices dip w all the dealers traveling, folks saving coupled w several other factors....well then, ok.

just looking at the last pwcc auction i see zero dip compared to the auction a month earlier when looking at the 50s rookie cards etc...auctions usually go for more than the 3-5 days than the National takes place so i really dont see it impacting AHs like Golden, Heritage, mile high, which i doubt have auctions that close exactly on the weekend of the National but who knows...

[irv]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

LOL....is this a correction period, or just a simple case of one month of sales from a small group of buyers trying to "pump up" the market that had no legs? I mean, $80,000 for a PSA 8 when, just this past February, this was an $8,000 card???

Good question, and I certainly don't know the answer as this is still all fairly new to me, as it turns out.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i have a feeling that 80k never changed hands on that card.

How is this so? Not doubting you at all, I just don't understand, especially since it was sold through an A/H, how money was not exchanged when they list it as sold on their website??

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i would have to concur that as well.

but again on the price dips, do your own research.

if you dont think prices dip w all the dealers traveling, folks saving coupled w several other factors....well then, ok.

Not sure I understand what you are saying?

Since joining this site back in January, I have done my best to try and understand the hobby, learn as much as I can, but I see I still have a long ways to go!

From reading about PSA and how they got started (Trimmed Wagner) to Maestro, battlefield on E-Bay and lots of other shenanigans in the hobby, I will say I am somewhat disheartened by what I am finding out on a regular, almost daily basis.

When I got back into this hobby (was never into like most on here to begin with) I was like a big kid again filled with excitement and enthusiasm to try and get caught back up but the more I find out about the hobby, (the ugly side of it I guess?) the less enthused I become.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by irv

but the more I find out about the hobby, (the ugly side of it I guess?) the less enthused I become.

I say the same to myself about the human race, from time to time.

It is all in what we choose to hang the lantern on, so to speak.

To a collector, a baseball card is intrinsically a happy, positive thing. So if you're a collector at heart and keep it all about the cards, and tune out the superfluous and the toxic, you'll find the cards make you very happy.

[irv]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I say the same to myself about the human race, from time to time.

It is all in what we choose to hang the lantern on, so to speak.

To a collector, a baseball card is intrinsically a happy, positive thing. So if you're a collector at heart and keep it all about the cards, and tune out the superfluous and the toxic, you'll find the cards make you very happy.

I do too, and far to often, sadly!

I guess I was naive thinking that with baseball cards there would be some sort of childhood innocence/honesty with regards to the hobby, but when money is involved, especially big money, I should have known better and not been so blind with my thinking.

Thanks for the advice!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by irv

I do too, and far to often, sadly!

I guess I was naive thinking that with baseball cards there would be some sort of childhood innocence/honesty with regards to the hobby, but when money is involved, especially big money, I should have known better and not been so blind with my thinking.

Thanks for the advice!

not sure how you would think there is innocence/honest when it comes to big money for cards. I not sure what other experiences you have had where there was innocence when it comes to big money, ie. politics, drug companies, etc..

[begsu1013]

.

[irv]

I know it's a 9 but considering the plummet the 8 did recently, is anyone surprised by this?
http://sports.ha.com/itm/1955-topps-...lotPosition=18

[glynparson]

No, I am not surprised a 9 is far tougher than 8. Do i think its high yes. But i am not surprised. When a correction occurs i expect most items to fall but still be considerably higher to higher than pre boom levels.

[irv]

Originally Posted by glynparson

No, I am not surprised a 9 is far tougher than 8. Do i think its high yes. But i am not surprised. When a correction occurs i expect most items to fall but still be considerably higher to higher than pre boom levels.

I know my experience in this game is not even in the same league as most on here, but in all honesty, I thought that was quite high, even for a 9, considering what the recent 8's settled for.

It sounds like there are 3 graded 10 PSA's out there, (at time of article) any idea how many 9's? (I don't know how to find the info?)
http://www.justcollect.com/blog/sand...graded-psa-10/

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by irv

I know my experience in this game is not even in the same league as most on here, but in all honesty, I thought that was quite high, even for a 9, considering what the recent 8's settled for.

It sounds like there are 3 graded 10 PSA's out there, (at time of article) any idea how many 9's? (I don't know how to find the info?)
http://www.justcollect.com/blog/sand...graded-psa-10/

i dont think you can compare 8s with 9s......its not like comparing 3s with 4s or 4's with 5s...........really nothing to compare as the value grows exponentially from 8 to 9..

[irv]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I don't think you can compare 8s with 9s......its not like comparing 3s with 4s or 4's with 5s...........really nothing to compare as the value grows exponentially from 8 to 9..

I am finding that out!

[MattyC]

"Nothing to compare," except if you're a picky buyer, and the 8 is a better card than the 9.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

"Nothing to compare," except if you're a picky buyer, and the 8 is a better card than the 9.

Until that picky buyer pays for an 8 within 30k or whatever is remotely close of what that worse 9 goes for from this date on, yes there is nothing to compare......talk is cheap, when people have to put money where their mouth suddenly they dont pony up..

[MattyC]

I've done it on multiple occasions. And you sadly miss the point entirely.

It may shock an apparent grade whore like you, who myopically focuses only on price tag and sticker, but some of us collectors will actually see a card that we wouldn't spend a penny on-- despite the fact that someone else will spend a ton on that very same card.

I have passed on PSA 9s, choosing not to spend a penny on them, and instead chose to shatter VCP history for PSA 8s of the same card-- because, to my eye, the PSA 9 had major eye appeal flaws, and the PSA 8 struck my eye as the better card. I have nothing against a high grade card; in fact, I like them-- when the card itself merits the grade.

If you do not understand that, as a buyer, you can compare 8s and 9s, or 9s and 10s, or a 5 and a 9, then you don't collect cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I've done it on multiple occasions. And you sadly miss the point entirely.

It may shock an apparent grade whore like you, who myopically focuses only on price tag and sticker, but some of us collectors will actually see a card that we wouldn't spend a penny on-- despite the fact that someone else will spend a ton on that very same card.

I have passed on PSA 9s, choosing not to spend a penny on them, and instead chose to shatter VCP history for PSA 8s of the same card-- because, to my eye, the PSA 9 had major eye appeal flaws, and the PSA 8 struck my eye as the better card. I have nothing against a high grade card; in fact, I like them-- when the card itself merits the grade.

If you do not understand that, as a buyer, you can compare 8s and 9s, or 9s and 10s, or a 5 and a 9, then you don't collect cards.

we have gone through this grade argument before.. and i know your philosophy and you have terrific cards.....

let me see you pay 125k for a psa 8 koufax than we can talk...this thread is about the koufax....i dont care how great looking the card is..if its an 8 you, MattyC arent going to pay 125k..until you do, theres really nothing to argue about...talk is very cheap....

its one thing when its a few k..even tens of k difference..but thats not the case with this koufax

people sell the holder not the card..... someday we may see in a auction listing 'bad example for the grade' let me know when that happens too

[pokerplyr80]

I don't think Matt is suggesting a nice 8 Koufax will outsell a flawed 9. Just that you can compare an 8 to a 9 and decide the 8 is the better card. I agree that I would rather step up and break a VCP record for a dead centered lower grade card with nice eye appeal than find a bargain priced card a grade or two higher with centering or tilt issues, or another flaw like a print defect or registration issue.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't think Matt is suggesting a nice 8 Koufax will outsell a flawed 9. Just that you can compare an 8 to a 9 and decide the 8 is the better card. I agree that I would rather step up and break a VCP record for a dead centered lower grade card with nice eye appeal than find a bargain priced card a grade or two higher with centering or tilt issues, or another flaw like a print defect or registration issue.

Well than i dont know his point...my point is that a 9 will destroy an 8 in price and you cant compare what a 8 sells for versus a 9 because thats a grand canyon with exponential difference unlike 5s versus 6s. This thread was about given what 8s sell for versus a 9 and if the prices are related.. My point was it makes no sense to compare the two when someone wont pay for an 8 even remotely close to what a current 9 Koufax will sell for

The best 8 ever in the world (never attempted to be bumped) wont come remotely close to price at the current time as the 9 for sale at Heritage. No mater what faults you have with that 9. If people truly buy the card and are not buying the holder than that would not be the case.. Yes i have paid a PSA 4 price for a PSA 3 card if it involves 200 bucks etc. Nobody going to do that involving 100k etc.

[Stonepony]

Grade whore?LOL

[Mdmtx]

I used to know a great whore. Long time ago.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

I understand acquiring the best card you can with the resources you have but it just seems crazy to pay 100x more than what this card cost, for the same card with just a little less wear.

+1 there--buy the card, not the holder! These new investor types seem to know just enough to be dangerous.

Best to all,

Larry