Million dollar mantle

[KendallCat]

I think we are seeing an era where very few new submissions are coming to market with high end cards like Mantle's, Aaron's, Clemente's... so premium prices are being paid for centered examples. Within a grade like PSA 7 or PSA 8 there is such a large range of factors like centering, eye appeal, corners, color, focus... prices can vary dramatically.

I also think the market from May-August experienced some exuberance and manipulation with certain rookie cards so people are leery of getting back into those cards and cards they spent $30k on which are now $15k. Think about the persons who bought the Goodwin Clemente PSA 8 examples for $146k and $150k in June/July, and now they are back to the $50k range. Same with the Koufax PSA 8 and Rose PSA 8 which are both trading at much lower prices now versus June/July.

When all this happened I think people decided to stick with what they know and have poured money back into Mantle cards which are about as sure of a bet in the market as anything.

[irv]

Originally Posted by KendallCat

I think we are seeing an era where very few new submissions are coming to market with high end cards like Mantle's, Aaron's, Clemente's... so premium prices are being paid for centered examples. Within a grade like PSA 7 or PSA 8 there is such a large range of factors like centering, eye appeal, corners, color, focus... prices can vary dramatically.

I also think the market from May-August experienced some exuberance and manipulation with certain rookie cards so people are leery of getting back into those cards and cards they spent $30k on which are now $15k. Think about the persons who bought the Goodwin Clemente PSA 8 examples for $146k and $150k in June/July, and now they are back to the $50k range. Same with the Koufax PSA 8 and Rose PSA 8 which are both trading at much lower prices now versus June/July.

When all this happened I think people decided to stick with what they know and have poured money back into Mantle cards which are about as sure of a bet in the market as anything.

That is definitely the case, imo, too. I have followed many many cards and have noticed that as well. Some big money is definitely gone and if sellers/consignors think they are going to get the same money as what summer cards sold for, their sadly mistaken.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-1...vip=true&rt=nc

[Shoebox]

The hyperfocus on centering is perplexing to me. The SGC card is better centered but I find every other aspect of the PSA card superior. If priced equally I would choose that card every time. Whether I would pay the exponentially higher price the flip would command is another issue and a large reason I am happy to stick with collectors grade cards.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

The hyperfocus on centering is perplexing to me. The SGC card is better centered but I find every other aspect of the PSA card superior. If priced equally I would choose that card every time.

Agreed. Centering isn't the end all, be all for me. In fact, it's not Very high at all on my priority list. Corners and lack of tilt are the first things I look at. Agree with boynton that I never thought about centering for even a split second when I was a kid.

[MattyC]

Interesting how we all collect, and yet in so many different ways.

When I was a kid, I would immediately toss all severely OC, tilted, and miscut cards, or ones that were super blurry. Image clarity and centering were always huge for me, even then.

I always viewed corner wear as something intended, due to handling of the card by kids, whereas the card was always intended to be framed evenly and to have a focused picture. My eye was always drawn to the center of the card, as opposed to the corners. And part of what draws the eye to the central image is the intended centering.

As I got older, I would search for a card on ebay and was struck by how few, and in some cases none at all, were perfectly centered. Seeing that this aspect was rare added a new appreciation for it and makes the hunt fun. But again this is just one of myriad ways to view and collect cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Interesting how we all collect, and yet in so many different ways.

When I was a kid, I would immediately toss all severely OC, tilted, and miscut cards, or ones that were super blurry. Image clarity and centering were always huge for me, even then.

I always viewed corner wear as something intended, due to handling of the card by kids, whereas the card was always intended to be framed evenly and to have a focused picture. My eye was always drawn to the center of the card, as opposed to the corners. And part of what draws the eye to the central image is the intended centering.

As I got older, I would search for a card on ebay and was struck by how few, and in some cases none at all, were perfectly centered. Seeing that this aspect was rare added a new appreciation for it and makes the hunt fun. But again this is just one of myriad ways to view and collect cards.

finding cards with nice corners is quite a challenge as well...always one banged up corner..

[MattyC]

Yes, I have vivid memories of trying to make a trade with my cousin for a 1987 Donruss Mike Greenwell. He had several of them, but there was a corner touch on each one that bugged me. I can only imagine what the kids in 1971 went through.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Interesting how we all collect, and yet in so many different ways.

When I was a kid, I would immediately toss all severely OC, tilted, and miscut cards, or ones that were super blurry. Image clarity and centering were always huge for me, even then.

I always viewed corner wear as something intended, due to handling of the card by kids, whereas the card was always intended to be framed evenly and to have a focused picture. My eye was always drawn to the center of the card, as opposed to the corners. And part of what draws the eye to the central image is the intended centering.

As I got older, I would search for a card on ebay and was struck by how few, and in some cases none at all, were perfectly centered. Seeing that this aspect was rare added a new appreciation for it and makes the hunt fun. But again this is just one of myriad ways to view and collect cards.

I think you said it better than I could. We as collectors are all a bit OCD, but some things bother us more than others. I can live with creases and corner wear, but bad centering is something I cant live with

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by orly57

I think you said it better than I could. We as collectors are all a bit OCD, but some things bother us more than others. I can live with creases and corner wear, but bad centering is something I cant live with

...there are certain members on this forum who will inquire of my new widow , " by the way , did he leave you a Dick Gernert by any chance.."...

..

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Interesting how we all collect, and yet in so many different ways.

When I was a kid, I would immediately toss all severely OC, tilted, and miscut cards, or ones that were super blurry. Image clarity and centering were always huge for me, even then.

I always viewed corner wear as something intended, due to handling of the card by kids, whereas the card was always intended to be framed evenly and to have a focused picture. My eye was always drawn to the center of the card, as opposed to the corners. And part of what draws the eye to the central image is the intended centering.

As I got older, I would search for a card on ebay and was struck by how few, and in some cases none at all, were perfectly centered. Seeing that this aspect was rare added a new appreciation for it and makes the hunt fun. But again this is just one of myriad ways to view and collect cards.

Hi Matty, you and I have had this discussion before. I understand your perspective and I respect it, but here's the counter argument: cards may come off the press as OC or even miscut, but they don't come off the press with rounded corners. Some of us are looking for cards that are as "fresh" as possible.

[ALR-bishop]

As someone who collects full set runs and thus large volumes of cards, I tend to be in Dan's camp. If I was collecting just some players or some sets I might worry more about centering and perfect cards.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Hi Matty, you and I have had this discussion before. I understand your perspective and I respect it, but here's the counter argument: cards may come off the press as OC or even miscut, but they don't come off the press with rounded corners. Some of us are looking for cards that are as "fresh" as possible.

I agree with this. I would rather have a card that was a little off centered, but new condition, like the PSA card than a card that is perfectly centered but damaged by a previous owner. Corner wear is something that I want to avoid and creases, writing, etc. are a strict no.

[irv]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Hi Matty, you and I have had this discussion before. I understand your perspective and I respect it, but here's the counter argument: cards may come off the press as OC or even miscut, but they don't come off the press with rounded corners. Some of us are looking for cards that are as "fresh" as possible.

I don't recall if I was part of that thread or not, but I also said exactly the same thing in a post.

I just purchased these 2 cards about 15 minutes ago. Cards look in excellent shape to me and the centering doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as creases (#1) and dinged corners (#2) do.