OT: George Bush Autograph...and PSA???

[slidekellyslide]

Okay, so I purchased this from a local friend yesterday, and after doing a little research I'm confused...did Donruss have autograph cards that don't even mention the auto on the back and why did PSA grade this card and not the auto?? Case is not tampered with.

[MooseDog]

I've always been confused about this but from what I understand the red flip labels is ONLY used when ONLY the card itself is being graded. And only the card grade is considered.

Assuming the autograph was issued with the card, whoever submitted it did not do so to get the autograph authenticated or graded, in which case they would need to submit to PSA/DNA and get back a card with a blue flip label. With that service you can request the autograph be authenticated and optionally graded, but the card itself is not considered.

In theory you could have a fake autograph on a GEM MINT 10 card in a red flip, and a "10" autograph on a PSA 1 condition card with a blue flip.

Confused yet?

[slidekellyslide]

Thanks for adding to my confusion.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

I've always been confused about this but from what I understand the red flip labels is ONLY used when ONLY the card itself is being graded. And only the card grade is considered.

Assuming the autograph was issued with the card, whoever submitted it did not do so to get the autograph authenticated or graded, in which case they would need to submit to PSA/DNA and get back a card with a blue flip label. With that service you can request the autograph be authenticated and optionally graded, but the card itself is not considered.

In theory you could have a fake autograph on a GEM MINT 10 card in a red flip, and a "10" autograph on a PSA 1 condition card with a blue flip.

Confused yet?

Not true, flip color does not matter.

You can buy blank 'stickers' to have a player sign, then stick them onto the card. This card isn't certified from the issue, those are numbered to 10. The person got Bush to sign the sticker, then put it on the card. Then they filled out the submission form incorrectly. ALL signed cards would have a PSA/DNA and certification number along with the flip.

[slidekellyslide]

You can buy blank stickers?? The same ones that Donruss has players/celebrities sign?

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Not true, flip color does not matter.

You can buy blank 'stickers' to have a player sign, then stick them onto the card. This card isn't certified from the issue, those are numbered to 10. The person got Bush to sign the sticker, then put it on the card. Then they filled out the submission form incorrectly. ALL signed cards would have a PSA/DNA and certification number along with the flip.

agreed with this. it should have the COA back if it's factory-certified by donruss. this card just has the normal back.

i also think the submitter didn't want to pay for psa/dna so they just submitted it to psa for just the card's grading. why psa didn't reject it i have no idea.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

You can buy blank stickers?? The same ones that Donruss has players/celebrities sign?

They aren't those same ones, the Donruss/Topps/Bowman etc. stickers have 'holograms' on them that say, "Donruss/Topps/Bowman Authentic Autograph" or something mentioning the company.

[slidekellyslide]

Okay, this is an actual Donruss sticker with the hologram, but the back of the card makes no mention of the autograph. Factory mistake?

[chaddurbin]

i see a couple bush /10 auto, and even /25 auto from donruss (with COA on back mentioning the autograph)...but that's it. the sticker doesn't look tampered with, but these can be peeled off. i don't think anyone would peel off a sticker from a legit card to stick to a regular issued card, so your mistake theory could be the simplest explanation. give donruss a call maybe they'll send you a cool replacement.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Okay, this is an actual Donruss sticker with the hologram, but the back of the card makes no mention of the autograph. Factory mistake?

Wow...have a tricky one here, because this is supposed to be the correct back:

There are two versions of this card, on numbered to 10 and one to 25, so yes, most likely an error.

But, I personally don't like the autograph

[chaddurbin]

ok i just did a quick google search and seems like just like the bowman scam alot of people are peeling off common autos, wipe then and forge more expensive sigs and stick them into base cards.

as a matter of fact the 128/250 bush card dan has is referenced in the thread below...before being sent to psa:

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1455096.html

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

ok i just did a quick google search and seems like just like the bowman scam alot of people are peeling off common autos, wipe then and forge more expensive sigs and stick them into base cards.

as a matter of fact the 128/250 bush card dan has is referenced in the thread below...before being sent to psa:

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1455096.html

Yep, you got it. I didn't want to say anything about that method, but that's how it's done, as with this card.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

ok i just did a quick google search and seems like just like the bowman scam alot of people are peeling off common autos, wipe then and forge more expensive sigs and stick them into base cards.

as a matter of fact the 128/250 bush card dan has is referenced in the thread below...before being sent to psa:

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1455096.html

Yep, you got it. I didn't want to say anything about that method, but that's how it's done, as with this card.

[slidekellyslide]

Good lord...I knew I shouldn't a messed around in the auto world.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

You can buy blank stickers?? The same ones that Donruss has players/celebrities sign?

Why shouldn't the forgers have a chance to sign these things?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Why shouldn't the forgers have a chance to sign these things?

Since these autographs are apparently easy to wipe and the sticker easily removable from the card these companies should be figuring out a better way...maybe putting a sticker over the sharpie type autographs that can't be separated without destroying the hologram sticker.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Since these autographs are apparently easy to wipe and the sticker easily removable from the card these companies should be figuring out a better way...maybe putting a sticker over the sharpie type autographs that can't be separated without destroying the hologram sticker.

Usually they are pretty tough to get taken off intact. I've experimented on a few. You cannot do it with just an exacto blade or anything like that, it's a process but I was shocked when I removed one and it didn't void it out or anything, which they should do.