Heritage putting up junk on their website for all to see. fake ALI

[travrosty]

Name another auction house that does it this way? none. they told me it is the way big auction houses run auctions. (telling people it is jsa auction loa when they hadn't looked at it yet?) they must be the only big auction house then.

leon, they are clueless at boxing in my opinion. but putting up the fakes ahead of time applies to every genre, not just boxing, but since i know boxing, it really sticks out like a sore thumb. i have contacted many different auction houses over the years, this is the only one that treats people like this. i would get an email from someone and i would say "they treated you like that too, me too!" it was uncanny how they take your suggestion or correction, then condescend and no other auction house does that. they all say thank you, then make the correction, not tell you how big auction houses do business and essentially you can go take a hike, thanks but no thanks, dont call us we'll call you. That's the feeling you get when you try to help this auction house. You feel like you are talking to someone who takes it personally and thinks he is being exposed as not being a big boxing guy when I could care less, I just want it right for the consumers sake so he tries to make you feel small. they sell 800 million $$$ a year in collectibles and can't run it through someone first who knows autographs and boxing history so they can write accurate descriptions and make sure the bad stuff stays off the site? This is exactly why people are mad at ebay, when any piece of carp shows up and they try to contact ebay about it but it can't get taken down.

Those two Muhammad Ali Operation bullpen autographs are still up at the auction house and they know about them. why?

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...lotIdNo=111002

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...&lotIdNo=45010

[travrosty]

A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL



Leon, you know nothing about it, okay, that's for sure.


Jonathon told this board a few months ago that it was my email to steve ivy that did it. well, post the email for everyone to see. i got nothing to hide. so now it is something else? chris never told me not to email his dad. i emailed the higher ups because the lower downs didnt care at all, and i never said the words "chris ivy" to the dad, because i didnt want it to be personal, i only said sports dept. so is it the email or not? you don't know, they keep switching their story every month. it's a guessing game. Why did jonathon say one thing, now leon is saying something else, because he heard it from ? and ? and chris won't even come on here, he's too busy with whatever. Come on here chris, post the email, give your side, lets go!

Nice to know you are telling us why we got banned when you even say you dont know for sure, and wont go into it any further, when WE weren't even told by heritage directly why, but we know why, we dont need to hear rumors from you.

thanks for telling mark why he got banned, oh thats right, you didnt. you dont know anything about it. if you know, let's hear specfiics. what a joke. are you their spokesman? now go confer with heritage before you give you next non-answer.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL



Leon, you know nothing about it, okay, that's for sure.


Jonathon told this board a few months ago that it was my email to steve ivy that did it. well, post the email for everyone to see. i got nothing to hide. so now it is something else? chris never told me not to email his dad. i emailed the higher ups because the lower downs didnt care at all, and i never said the words "chris ivy" to the dad, because i didnt want it to be personal, i only said sports dept. so is it the email or not? you don't know, they keep switching their story every month. it's a guessing game. Why did jonathon say one thing, now leon is saying something else, because he heard it from ? and ? and chris won't even come on here, he's too busy with whatever. Come on here chris, post the email, give your side, lets go!

Nice to know you are telling us why we got banned when you even say you dont know for sure, and wont go into it any further, when WE weren't even told by heritage directly why, but we know why, we dont need to hear rumors from you.

thanks for telling mark why he got banned, oh thats right, you didnt. you dont know anything about it. if you know, let's hear specfiics. what a joke. are you their spokesman? now go confer with heritage before you give you next non-answer.

Settle down Travis. Are you foaming at the mouth? You are writing that way. It is very unbecoming of you.

[travrosty]

First of all it doesnt have anything to do with you. now you're condescending towards me when no one carbon copied you on any email concerning any of this.

how were you ever in the loop? you weren't.

now trying to shame me because you want others to think i am writing this in an unbecoming way. it's ridiculous. Me and others have valid concerns that go unaddressed by them and we are the bad guys. nice. if that's what you need to believe to go on with your day, fine. Just what does it have to do with you anyway? why don't you start an I love heritage thread? who is stopping you?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Settle down Travis. Are you foaming at the mouth? You are writing that way. It is very unbecoming of you.

On the contrary, Leon, I think it's quite becoming of Travis, but, of course, I could be full of carp......

carp-2.jpg

[travrosty]

What makes me upset leon is that jonathan comes on here says one thing, then now you say another, and people dont know the truth. can you two guys get your story straght?

Why is it Mr. huggins can come on here, Doug Allen can, Mr. Goldin, but not Mr Ivy? Are you his surrogate, you dont even know any sides of the story. You certainly don't know what was said to me. did you know when Chris Ivy said that Heritage took care of the jsa auction loa premature listings, he said that they were responding to collectors concerns and were proactive, etc. etc. what he didnt say is that I alerted him to the problem 8 months prior and was given the cold shoulder. Why is that?

That wasn't the truth. It just got big enough and enough of a story that they had to do something about it, not because they "cared". They could have "cared" 8 months prior when it was brought up and an article even written about it. but since the article didnt get wide exposure, they felt they didnt have to address it. Then when they felt they had to, all of the sudden they are an auction house who wants to do everything they can to help the customer. you just have to give me a break leon. you know what i write is true. quit taking the blame for them. it's not worth it.

[Leon]

Travis- Chris doesn't post on message boards. That's his call.

I am relaying what was told to me. He told you not to email any executive. You did. You are banned for that. It had nothing to do with the content of the email. It is the fact you emailed at all. How can you possibly not be able to interpret what I just said?

To be clear, yes you only sent one email. Chris said he made it very clear to you that your account would be suspended if you emailed an exec. You did and your account was suspended.

[Runscott]

Very odd situation we have: on the one hand you have JSA and PSA, and the mutually beneficial ($$$) relationship they have with the major auction houses, which requires very little actual autograph expertise. On the other hand you have the real autograph experts right here on Net 54, who have no relationship with the major auction houses, or in some cases, bad relationships.

Then you have the customers, relying for the most part on the auction houses to supply them with autographs. The ones who don't hang out here are basically screwed, or at least have a greater than 50/50 chance of getting screwed each time they make a purchase. The others are either getting screwed knowingly and are happy with it, or are relying on their own expertise and that of the Net 54 experts, to not get screwed.

There has to be a better way.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Name another auction house that does it this way? none.

Huggins and Scott had several autos up in their last preview that were redacted after PSA looked at them. I can post a link to the thread on these boards discussing it. I think it makes them look sloppy and wish they wouldn't do it, but I do not view it as egregious or fraudulent in any way.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

it was uncanny how they take your suggestion or correction, then condescend and no other auction house does that. they all say thank you, then make the correction,

How does Coaches Corner treat you? Do they take the items down? Do they make corrections?

[Rich Klein]

Coaches Corner finds reps who witnessed George Washington Private Signings and uses their LOA's. We call them the Valley Forgers

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Coaches Corner finds reps who witnessed George Washington Private Signings and uses their LOA's. We call them the Valley Forgers

[JimStinson]

The guy in the boat 2nd from right does look VERY suspicious !!!!
_______________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Jim Stinson Buying & Selling Baseball Autographs
stinsonsports.com

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

How does Coaches Corner treat you? Do they take the items down? Do they make corrections?

I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.

You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

Wow...not sure I'd ever deal with them again if I were you...lots of places to find good stuff out there.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

this is the type of email i have received.

the "you must be stupid" so bite me -type email. i was so stupid i didnt know how a big auction house works so they were forced to do it this way, put up the junk beforehand without checking out the items first. this is what they told me in not a nice way. very condescending but i think as it regards the sports department it comes from the top as a corporate attitude by the leader of that dept., that's their style.

In comparison I have never gotten an email, phone call from other auction houses that are like that, like Goldin or Leland's, which I find very professional, and it concerned me that Heritage would send out such unprofessional emails, so I stopped helping them because really what's the use if they treat customers like that?

[shelly]

Travis, like I posted on the other thread. Give it a week. Or just post ETC. We will all understand.

[travrosty]

Thank you, I'm okay, i am still waiting for them to come on here and explain, but like Jerry Glanville, former coach of the Atlanta Falcons, leaving tickets for Elvis at the will call window, it's a long shot.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

by a TPG. The reason I asked, was out of curiosity, I went to the Heritage Site this morning to check on your story. They had 85 completed auctions for 1959 Ted WIlliams and the only items which may have been over $1000 were sets which were in TPG holders. If so, then a higher price makes sense.

Here is a link to Heritage's 1959 Ted Wililams listings. You do need to sign in and be registered.

http://www.ha.com/c/search-results.z...r+ted+williams

And I will tell you that in old sets and modern sets the SP card is not always considered part of the complete set. Instead that becomes part of a master set.

Rich

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.

I made no comparison, I just wondered how Coaches Corner treats you and if they are receptive to your suggestions. I would think they would keep you much busier than Heritage, but I guess not because I never see you post about them.

[Runscott]

Jason, did the final bid reflect what the set should have brought if it had included the real #68?

[Runscott]

Also, the comparison of a single CC experience to a Heritage experience is very misleading. I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints. What you are missing is they make their money off the people who buy fakes and are too ignorant to complain. You hear people here all the time stating that you don't judge a company by its mistakes, but rather by how it fixes them. Scammers feast on such philosophers.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Also, the comparison of a single CC experience to a Heritage experience is very misleading. I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints. What you are missing is they make their money off the people who buy fakes and are too ignorant to complain. You here people here all thd time stating that you don't judgd a company by its mistakes, but rather by how it fixes them. Scammers feast on such philosophers.

I 100% agree. Like I said, I have bid on one item with CC and had one issue, while I have bid on 1000's of items with HA, but have had only one problem. I believe CC is the lowest of the low and I did not mean to compare them, it's just, while we were on the subject....

And to answer your question previously asked, yes. I bid an amount I thought was fair if #68 was included.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints.

So true. I've dealt with quite a few fraudsters in my practice and the true pros will always quickly and quietly settle the dispute. They know that there are other suckers out there and it doesn't pay in the end to slug it out with the 10% who actually complain.