Live National Report Thread....

[jp1216]

Just got back from 2 days. Had a great time. First day was 100% about the floor. Hitting every table. 8 hours and sore feet. Met Leon (hi Leon) and a few other members. I too noticed the ridiculous prices, but there were deals out there.
Day 2 was a last minute decision. Brought my 8 year-old son for the experience. He (we) did great. Dealers were great with kids and I'm surprised he lasted the whole day. His quote as we walked out was ' wow, that went by fast'. I was shocked. Spent the day looking through 25 cent - $1 boxes. Hours of fun. One autograph purchase - Jason Kipnis. Had to do it. My son's favorite.

[LincolnVT]

What is the report on Ruth items at the National?...I heard from a reliable source that the early Ruth stuff is very, very scarce and that the few items that are being made available are being sold for a steep premium. Can people confirm?

Thanks.

Ethan

[kailes2872]

First National - great time. 2 days 10-6 both days with me and the boys (12&15).

Highlights:
With one or two minor exceptions, the exhibitors were super friendly to my kids. They gave them free stuff they talked to them about baseball (the 12 year old had a 1977 era Pirates pillbox hat and they would talk to him about it). I was expecting the worst and they went out of their way.

Incredible experience seeing all of the inventory. I felt like my 8 year old daughter when she went to the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique at Magic Kingdom or the American Girl Store in NYC. For the first hour on Friday, I was overwhelmed.

Biggest highlight was finally putting faces to names. I met Tony Schaefer of Monster Cards who has been a great friend and mentor online. I met Leon and got me Babe Ruth Net54 pin. I met Kit Young, Levi from 707 (what an inventory!) Probstein (he didn't give me the time of day). I enjoyed spending some time with Tim Carroll and watching him do his commission for the LBJ piece - cutting up the cards one by one.


Lowlights - Goodness the pricing was expensive. I have no problem paying a 10-20% premium to support the dealers and walk out with the card in hard. However, some of the prices were just ridiculous - 100-150% markup over the buy it now museum prices on Ebay.

Dealers would not price their cards. This was usually the indicator that they were astronomically priced. They would have 20%-30% off everything in the case. As an example, I am a set collector post war. I was upgrading my 57 and looking for an Ex Mint Tony Kubek 312. There is one in BST for $55 as a PSA 6. I have seen raw EX 35-45. So, a guy had an EX+ Kubek in his case - not priced with the 30% off note. I asked about it it. He said that it was $350 - but 30% off - so $245. I told him thanks, but I would pass. PSA 6 54 Aarons at 2400. PSA 6 55 Clementes at 2200. I felt like I was shopping at SAKs or Nordstroms. It was neat looking at the cards, however. If dealers didn't price their cards, I stopped asking after late Friday.


I really fell in love with Turkey Reds - I think that is what they are called - T3's. A really nice exhibitor told me the story about how they were acquired and how someone could order for a specific player. Leon gave some additional color to the methodology. At some point, I will begin buying pre-war. When I do, I have T3 fever. What a beautiful group of cards.

My friend Wayne from Shoebox cards told me that I was wasting time and money buying post war. He told me a story of how he stumbled upon a group of T3s in 1969 - where he bought them at an antique shop for $5 a card - over 100 of them. He sold them several years ago, but ranks it as his greatest find.

Good times. Great bonding with my boys. It was great that it was close to home - not sure if I will go to Chicago or AC as there were no deals to be found but I enjoyed the experience.

I am going to try to attach some pictures - if I can't attach mutiple, then it will be over a series of posts - apologies in advance for my lack of acumen - I swear that 10 years ago I was actually pretty good with the PC - now I have to ask my 15 year old how to do stuff... sigh

[kailes2872]

Here is a second round of pictures

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by fmcjfc

Went to the National today with a pocket full of cash ready to spend. Came back home with a pocket full of cash. I don't mind paying a 10% premium or so for the convenience of buying in person, but most cards I got cash prices on were more like 30-60% over market value, some up to 100%. It's still worth the $20 entry fee and the time to check things out, but I'll do my card shopping elsewhere.

I've been to a dozen + Nationals over the past two dozen + years, and I have virtually never paid the initial asking price for a card I wanted if I thought it was overpriced. I just can't bring myself to do it, no matter how bad I want it. I am not a deep-pocket spender, but I have found that most dealers who have overpriced cards that I want are willing to reduce their prices, often quite significantly, after some discussion, especially once they realize I am aware as to what the realistic going prices are for the cards in question.

Keep in mind that most dealers are quite aware of Net54, and many are members, although you may not see them posting very often - so, I always ask for a "Net54 discount," which usually works. Also, many of the dealers have their inventory on eBay, and I am often able to recognize cards that interest me that have outlandish (IMHO) BINs on eBay - but these dealers don't have to pay eBay & PayPal fees when they sell their cards at the National, which should result in "automatic" discounts for starters. To me, it's like buying a new car - the sticker price is meaningless!

For example, today, I bought a card at the National that I have wanted badly for a long time - it has been an overprice $475 BIN on eBay forever. I had a nice conversation with this dealer and explained why I thought it was overpriced, especially in comparison to similar cards he has on eBay. He looked something up in his computer and then asked me if I was the person who offered him $175 for this card via eBay over a year ago - I responded that yes, I am the guy. He thought a bit, and then said I could have the card for $200 - I said "sold." Interestingly, this dealer didn't even have this with him card at the Show, so his mailing cost is included in the $200. Yes, this card may still be a bit overpriced at $200, but it is a scarce card (a Zeeenut with a tab of a certain player who was on the 1924 Senators team, one of my collecting focuses) that I wanted badly, so I am a happy camper!

The bottom line is, there are good/decent deals to be had, but you usually have to do a bit of "work" to get them!

Hope all that attended the National had as much fun as I did!

Val Kehl

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

What is the report on Ruth items at the National?...I heard from a reliable source that the early Ruth stuff is very, very scarce and that the few items that are being made available are being sold for a steep premium. Can people confirm?

Thanks.

Ethan

I saw several early Ruth cards.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

My thoughts from the National were this:

(1) Lots of cool stuff to see. If you haven't had the opportunity to personally examine some of the rarer stuff then go.

(2) The prices were ridiculous. However, I saw some dealers except 50% of their list price.

(3) Meeting people was a plus. Most of the collectors I talked to were very friendly especially board members. It was especially fun to hang out with Eric and Steve.

(4) I don't know that I will make a return trip a high priority but I had a great time.

[Pat R]

Just got home after a 9 hour drive ( 2 hours sitting in traffic on I90 because
some geniuses in Ohio decide to merge six lanes down to one on the busiest
weekend of the year with the National, NFL hall of fame inductions and PGA
tour event).

Picked up a few T206's but the best part was meeting up with Jantz, Chris B
and other members.

Patrick

[Exhibitman]

I am on my way home now after four days. Great trip as usual.

I did not see ridiculous prices but I wasn't looking for the hottest prewar sets in high grade slabs either. I bought over 200 cards for my collection. I dug and dug on messy tables, sifted through hundreds of commons looking for the right cards, and worked over every buck negotiating prices. That's how you gotta work the show--relentlessly. And be flexible. I got some great prewar photos of the cubs training on Catalina and a ton of postwar Topps cards. Even got a nice Morrell Koufax and a Koufax rookie. All those were on my list but I could not count on them. They were targets of opportunity. If you approach the show looking for one narrow thing you will probably leave disappointed, especially if you are after a hot set.

[Northviewcats]

I spent two days at the show.

Overwhelming experience. After a few rows of looking the merchandise seemed to blend together, each table seemed to be filled with the same stuff.

Only spent 1/4 of what I intended to spend. Ironically I spent the most on a 1924 Diaz card that I think I was the under-bidder on a few weeks ago on eBay. Impulse buy. Yes, I did pay a lot more for it at the show.

The best part was watching dads and sons shopping together for treasures. The excited kids reminded me of how great collecting cards was when I was little.

I did take advantage of the Net54 SGC special. (Thanks Leon for arranging it.) I also enjoyed meeting Earl from SGC and putting a face to someone that I have dealt with over the phone. He was very helpful.

Thing I disliked the most: Unless they knew you most of the dealers seemed bothered and not interested in selling. I stopped and looked at almost every booth, but only a few dealers even asked what I was collecting. Maybe I have an ugly mug. Today most dealers just looked beat. I'm sure that they were.

The real excitement was at the rear of the room where all of the pack ripping was going on. I still don't understand the glamour of spending $70 hoping to get an autograph of someone who may not be in the Big Leagues in a few years. Gambling is not for me.

I hope everyone that went had a great time and found what they were looking for.

Best regards,

Joe

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

What is the report on Ruth items at the National?...I heard from a reliable source that the early Ruth stuff is very, very scarce and that the few items that are being made available are being sold for a steep premium. Can people confirm?

Thanks.

Ethan

coming soon...

[Bicem]

[glynparson]

I got so tired of selling things that I did not really want to that I packed up early and gave my tables to the people behind me. The market is rather strong and tougher cards and tougher T cards sell very well right now and often over Ebay which many here seem to quote as market price.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Northviewcats

I spent two days at the show.

Overwhelming experience. After a few rows of looking the merchandise seemed to blend together, each table seemed to be filled with the same stuff.

Only spent 1/4 of what I intended to spend. Ironically I spent the most on a 1924 Diaz card that I think I was the under-bidder on a few weeks ago on eBay. Impulse buy. Yes, I did pay a lot more for it at the show.

The best part was watching dads and sons shopping together for treasures. The excited kids reminded me of how great collecting cards was when I was little.

I did take advantage of the Net54 SGC special. (Thanks Leon for arranging it.) I also enjoyed meeting Earl from SGC and putting a face to someone that I have dealt with over the phone. He was very helpful.

Thing I disliked the most: Unless they knew you most of the dealers seemed bothered and not interested in selling. I stopped and looked at almost every booth, but only a few dealers even asked what I was collecting. Maybe I have an ugly mug. Today most dealers just looked beat. I'm sure that they were.

The real excitement was at the rear of the room where all of the pack ripping was going on. I still don't understand the glamour of spending $70 hoping to get an autograph of someone who may not be in the Big Leagues in a few years. Gambling is not for me.

I hope everyone that went had a great time and found what they were looking for.

Best regards,

Joe

I agree 100% with the lack of friendliness. I walked away several dealer tables that had things I was interested in because they wouldn't acknowledge that I was there.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I got so tired of selling things that I did not really want to that I packed up early and gave my tables to the people behind me. The market is rather strong and tougher cards and tougher T cards sell very well right now and often over Ebay which many here seem to quote as market price.

I can't help but wonder if sales at the national are a true indicator of anything. Yes, people are paying inflated premiums over "market" price, but I would bet that that's just the psyche of the collector spending all that time and money to go to the national and just not wanting to walk away empty handed. Just my theory, anyway.

[dstudeba]

The people are the best part of the National. Go to see and meet a lot of folks, and unfortunately also missed a ton of people I wanted to see. I posted some pictures from my phone on facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/bidbrain

Pleasure to finally meet Ted and always a pleasure to talk to the fountain of knowledge that is Mark Macrae.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am on my way home now after four days. Great trip as usual.

I did not see ridiculous prices but I wasn't looking for the hottest prewar sers on high grade slabs either. I bought over 200 cards for my collection. I dug and dug on messy tables, sifted through hundreds of commons looking for the right cards, and worked over every buck negotiating prices. That's how you gotta work the show--relentlessly. And be flexible. I got some great prewar photos of the cubs training on Catalina and a ton of postwar Topps cards. Even got a nice Morrell Koufax and a Koufax rookie. All those were on my list but I could not count on them. They were targets of opportunity. If you approach the show looking for one narrow thing you will probably leave disappointed, especially if you are after a hot set.

+1

Floating around the show looking at the overpriced eye candy of those with the biggest booths seemed to be what a lot of people were doing. The deals were in the smaller booths where you could strike up a conversation, build a common understanding about an item, and then negotiate a fair price. I got more deals at this Natty than the past two combined. Sometimes I had to walk away and come back the next day to get prices to fall. In general I didn't feel like if I passed up something it would be gone later so I did this consistently as a negotiating tactic.

Also stumbled into a few items that the dealer did not really seem to know what it was and/or it's true rarity. I guess that's the benefit of looking for things that are less mainstream.

jeff

[Exhibitman]

Definitely, Jeff. There are always astounding items hidden in piles of stuff that you just have to dig out and retrieve. I am a bit of a maniac at the show because I know that. I try to save the socializing for the evenings and when I am too tired to keep walking and searching. I will post some 'picks' later this week.

[CW]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I know that there's still over a full day to go, but for those attending, what is the big item/story/trend at the National this year (i.e. the Old Mill Blue Back in 2012, etc...)? Thanks for all the reports!

1914 Cracker Jacks.

[tbob]

It's always interesting to watch the videos and see the same cards behind the glass cases that I've seen in person over the last 7-8 years. Often with the same price stickers and same amounts....

[TATSR]

This was my first national in about 10 years. Here are two things I'll never understand:
1. Dealers who only have tables full of unorganized 10 cent cards. How many of those do you have to sell just to pay expenses?
2. People sitting at these tables digging through the 10 cent cards. There has to be a better way to fill whatever list you're working on.

I probably spent more at this show than I've ever spent at any other show. But I was mainly working on 60s-70s sets in ExMt-NrMt. Definitely got better deals than on eBay.

I also spent at least a few dollars every place I saw a kid who was borrowing some table space from dad.

[drcy]

The boys of booth 1820: David Cycleback, Tim Newcomb, Mike Peich and Scott Forrest. Photographed by REA's Brian Dwyer. This was near the end of the show, which proves we got along swimmingly. By swimmingly, I don't mean the booth was like Das Boot by day three.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I had a great time! I flew in on Friday morning from the west coast and went straight to the show. I hit every table in one day and didn't run into one unfriendly dealer. As a matter of fact, I met some really great people and enjoyed talking about common pre-war interests. It was my wife's first time to Ohio and as a trade off for being a sport walking the show with me, I took her to dinner at a really amazing restaurant in the tiny lakeside town of Vermilion. We were charmed by the beautiful turn of the century houses and the boats docked in front of the stately homes along the waterway. Highly recommend checking it out the next time you're in CLE! Most of all got to meet Barry, Adam and Eitan who all dazzled me with their insights and knowledge of the hobby and personal collections. Including some scans of cards I was lucky enough to take home. Hoping to be back next year...

[scoobysnacksforyou]

Originally Posted by TATSR

This was my first national in about 10 years. Here are two things I'll never understand:
1. Dealers who only have tables full of unorganized 10 cent cards. How many of those do you have to sell just to pay expenses?
2. People sitting at these tables digging through the 10 cent cards. There has to be a better way to fill whatever list you're working on.

I probably spent more at this show than I've ever spent at any other show. But I was mainly working on 60s-70s sets in ExMt-NrMt. Definitely got better deals than on eBay.

I also spent at least a few dollars every place I saw a kid who was borrowing some table space from dad.

I ended up having much better luck in the ten cent box than most anywhere else. Most of it was timing, as a guy pulled out a 5k box of 70's cards from under the table just as I was walking by. Stopped, sat down for a while, and came away with lots of great stuff. Spent probably $80 there. Plus talking to the other guys there was great, and that dealer was one of the best. My other favorite table at the show was the guy selling old press pictures and publications. I was at his table at least 4 times Sat-Sun and bought more each time. He had some really interesting stuff and was great to talk to.
My hunt for t210's was an absolute waste of time. only about 6 or so dealers had any at all, and only 2 had a total of 3 from my series 4. Those were so overpriced I didn't even bother to make an offer. Almost triple the going rate. and those were the Sunday prices, I can only imagine what they were asking early in the week. Still ended up spending about what I budgeted, but certainly not on the things I had intended to spend it on.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

What is the report on Ruth items at the National?...I heard from a reliable source that the early Ruth stuff is very, very scarce and that the few items that are being made available are being sold for a steep premium. Can people confirm?

Thanks.

Ethan

Even with my "museum" strategy of pricing of my personal collection I sold an early Ruth card. The buyer is ecstatic and I am happy so that is all that matters. Early Ruth items are still hot.

[stadiumechoes]

My brief summary. My son (20) and I (48) spent all day Saturday at the National. We were in line when it opened and left at 5:45. I had no "want list" or objective, I just wanted to take in the experience and enjoy the day. I thought I made it to all tables, but based on the photos, I guess i missed a few. I liked the layout, but with the set up of the building, you couldn't really just go up and down rows. High level overview:
* I was impressed with the friendliness and overall interactions with the dealers. I was routinely greeted at each table with a hello and a "let me know if you need any help or are looking for anything".
* I was amused with the cheering and countdowns (or whatever) at the corporate booths. I'm not sure what was going on, but it was entertaining to hear. Maybe if I had a booth near there I wouldn't have been so amused, but to me it added energy to the overall atmosphere.
*I was impressed with the selection and displays (as a rule). I agree with some previous posters in that I caught myself occasionally slipping in to "work mode" and doing some quick math with the cost of the show vs. what the booth had for sale. Some of it didn't add up, but they spent the money, I guess they can arrange their booth however they want.
*I shook my head at the number of Ruth autographs (both "raw" and in "designed scarcity" insert cards.
*Dropped some things off at SGC and, like all other interactions I have had with the company, everything was handled in a VERY professional, friendly manner.
*Didn't see much non-sports stuff (which is a good thing). I remember one comic display and another one that was 50-50 cards and rock memorabilia. I thought it was interesting that a few booths focused on old sporting equipment. Not the mainstream sports, but just about anything sports related and vintage.
* The soft serve ice cream booth was very good and I impressed myself by only having one cone.

[mrvster]

I know I have been obsessing....

but did anyone see any T206 Scrap??? blank backs??? cool ghost Freaks???? anything odd T206??? upside down backs?? were any for sale?? any on display??

everyone I spoke with said there was very little available to be seen in that arena ..



any input on this

thanks

Johnny v

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by stadiumechoes

* The soft serve ice cream booth was very good and I impressed myself by only having one cone.

Agreed, was by far the best thing food-wise.

[Matvoo]

Originally Posted by mrvster

I know I have been obsessing....

but did anyone see any T206 Scrap??? blank backs??? cool ghost Freaks???? anything odd T206??? upside down backs?? were any for sale?? any on display??

everyone I spoke with said there was very little available to be seen in that arena ..



any input on this

thanks

Johnny v

You sure like asking
But I want to know to

[LuckyLarry]

I am stuck in my CLE hotel room with a Monday PM departure home. No better time to sort my purchases

Larry

[Matvoo]

Wowzers Larry thats a lot of vintage for sure

[1880nonsports]

you must have accidently picked-up that graded card :-)

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

you must have accidently picked-up that graded card :-)

haha busted! but actually the slabbed t205 was a gift look close under those "raw" 1935 Goudey and you will see my first original Babe Ruth graded PSA2!
Larry

[4815162342]

Larry that is hardcore - barely a slab, top loader, or penny sleeve in sight!

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Larry that is hardcore - barely a slab, top loader, or penny sleeve in sight!

Daryl my bike and clothespins are at home
Larry

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by mrvster

I know I have been obsessing....

but did anyone see any T206 Scrap??? blank backs??? cool ghost Freaks???? anything odd T206??? upside down backs?? were any for sale?? any on display??

everyone I spoke with said there was very little available to be seen in that arena ..



any input on this

thanks

Johnny v

I saw blank back. I can't remember which auction house had it, I believe the guy at the booth was named Al.

[shernan30]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I saw blank back. I can't remember which auction house had it, I believe the guy at the booth was named Al.

Love Of The Game Auctions

[brewing]

Dang Larry, what don't you collect?

[atx840]

Al had a few scraps/errors for his next auction.

[MonsterCards]

Thanks to all for your contributions to this thread. As a dealer, customer opinions definitely serve as market research. Of course, some comments are (intentionally) just pure entertainment… Either will do!

A quick “Hey” to Kevin Ailes – it was great to meet you and your boys this weekend! As always at shows, whether it’s a several-day marathon or just a small one-day event, I wish I would have had more time to chat.

Unfortunately, I agree with his and some others’ opinions that many dealers have off-puttingly (I occasionally make up words) high prices. I’ll say that dealers like myself are at shows to pick up cards too – from other dealers and customers. That Tuesday and pre-VIP time on Wednesday can be a flurry of dealer-to-dealer action. While collectors and dealers are free to price their cards as they wish, I’ll just echo that I was kinda disappointed in this regard also.

That said, sales were strong for me and most every dealer I know well enough to speak candidly with. (I just know the good/reasonable dealers, of course! ) Thank you to the Cleveland market and all who traveled long distances to attend and make that happen.

Incidentally, I was set up pretty close to that ‘ruckus,’ which I believe was coming from the Topps area. I was convinced that there couldn’t be people chanting with such fervor so frequently (I thought it was a recording), but was incorrect in that assumption. Whoever was whipping up such a frenzy has a serious talent for crowd work. He/she should have been operating that lonely ferris wheel....

-T

[DHogan]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

I am stuck in my CLE hotel room with a Monday PM departure home. No better time to sort my purchases

Larry

That looks like my bed when I was 10 years old. Good stuff !

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by brewing

Dang Larry, what don't you collect?

Brent if it's pre 1980 it might be on my wantlist I bought a bunch of 50s and 60s Topps hockey as well but I had to sort that on the dresser as I ran out of room on the bed!

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by DHogan

That looks like my bed when I was 10 years old. Good stuff !

Thanks Dave and I hope everyone enjoys their cards as much as I do mine!
Larry

[conor912]

Originally Posted by DHogan

That looks like my bed when I was 10 years old. Good stuff !

Ha! +1

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by shernan30

Love Of The Game Auctions

Thanks for the assist!

[dstudeba]

Tony - glad you had a good show, it was a pleasure to meet you and you sure had some good stuff!

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Leon

Even with my "museum" strategy of pricing of my personal collection I sold an early Ruth card. The buyer is ecstatic and I am happy so that is all that matters. Early Ruth items are still hot.

You bet I'm ecstatic Leon. I may never see that one again!

Joe

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

You bet I'm ecstatic Leon. I may never see that one again!

Joe

Pics?

[soxinseven]

Joe does love his Ruth cards. Congrats on your pickup!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by TATSR

This was my first national in about 10 years. Here are two things I'll never understand:
1. Dealers who only have tables full of unorganized 10 cent cards. How many of those do you have to sell just to pay expenses?
2. People sitting at these tables digging through the 10 cent cards. There has to be a better way to fill whatever list you're working on.

I probably spent more at this show than I've ever spent at any other show. But I was mainly working on 60s-70s sets in ExMt-NrMt. Definitely got better deals than on eBay.

I also spent at least a few dollars every place I saw a kid who was borrowing some table space from dad.

Maybe a dime a card is what they can afford? Hell, I spend an inordinate amount of time at dollar boxes, but I enjoy it. That's the bottom line.

Here are some dollar box items I found: