Matty Portrait SGC 5 for $4k+

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

How come you and Scott say it was a shill when, in post 4, Tony says there are lesser looking examples that only went for a little less? This was not an extraordinarily high price with respect to those? Unless there is more to it, I think ya'll are reckless in this particular case. NO doubt there are consignors or friends and family that shill on ebay (and in AH's auctions) but I would be careful about accusing with no corroborating evidence.

I also am talking generally as well. Not saying for this particular item...also not saying it was on the 1955 clemente...just saying there is history of cards spiking out of nowhere where it may not be as organic as we would like....not saying it happened in this case....also was a reaction when someone was comparing the sales with recent stock prices...so was more of take on not comparing stocks with cards in this genre at this time until there is much more data points and time..

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I also am talking generally as well. Not saying for this particular item...also not saying it was on the 1955 clemente...just saying there is history of cards spiking out of nowhere where it may not be as organic as we would like....not saying it happened in this case....also was a reaction when someone was comparing the sales with recent stock prices...so was more of take on not comparing stocks with cards in this genre at this time until there is much more data points and time..

the 50's/60's/70's card bubble is very different than the dynamic in popular tobacco and cracker jack cards imo. the biggest difference is the pop. the second major difference is that buyers of the latter are differentiating between eye appeal and technical grade. buyers are paying prices that are sometimes 2-3 grades above the assigned grade for great eye appeal cards manufactured 100 years ago, not 50 years ago. that isn't to say that shilling isn't a factor...it is. but pricing seems less divorced from reality than what we were seeing in mid-2016 with high end clemente and rose rookies.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by griffon512

the 50's/60's/70's card bubble is very different than the dynamic in popular tobacco and cracker jack cards imo. the biggest difference is the pop. the second major difference is that buyers of the latter are differentiating between eye appeal and technical grade. buyers are paying prices that are sometimes 2-3 grades above the assigned grade for great eye appeal cards manufactured 100 years ago, not 50 years ago. that isn't to say that shilling isn't a factor...it is. but pricing seems less divorced from reality than what we were seeing in mid-2016 high end clemente and rose rookies.

i dont think pop is a factor when you are talking about a PSa 4-5 T206 versus a 1950s PSA 7-8

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i dont think pop is a factor when you are talking about a PSa 4-5 T206 versus a 1950s PSA 7-8

my point is that very strong eye appeal of a psa 4-5 t206 is adding a couple of grades to the final price, so the pop of a 4-5 is less relevant. pwcc's PQ and HE labels are a successful marketing tool to exploit that. buyers are willing to 6 prices for a really nice 4-5. that dynamic is less true of most 50s/60s cards -- with the exception of '51 and '52 mantle -- which have larger pops to begin with in general, and have less variation among high end examples because of better manufacturing processes 50 years later.