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  #1  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:56 AM
jalex jalex is offline
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Default Solve a mystery... Two Davidsons one Photo...

Hello,

I'll try to make this short. I collect T-cards of players of Indiana. The majority of my checklist resides in the t206 set, but I have branched out. Because many of the players in my Indiana set played in the majors there is ample or at least satisfactory biographical information about them.

One of the players from t206 that has stymied my research is Paul Davidson of Indianapolis, American Association. Baseball reference has his partial minor league stats, but no biographical info. During my research I came across the M116 Sporting Life Bill Davidson of Brooklyn card. It features the same photo as the Paul Davidson T206. Baseball reference says that Bill Davidson was born in Lafayette, IN and was drafted out of the Western League Lincoln team in 1909 by the Cubs. That same year Paul Davidson played for the Omaha team of the Western League. Bill Davidson was traded to Brooklyn in 1910, Paul Davidson played 98 games for Rock Island of the Three-I league in 1910. Bill Davidson had his final year in the majors playing 74 games for Brooklyn in 1911. Paul Davidson played for 3 minor league teams in 1911, finishing his career that year back in the three-I league with Rock Island and Dubuque...

There appear to be coincidences in their listed careers, where they played, etc... There is no major league statistic referencing Paul Davidson and their is no Minor League stat line for Bill Davidson.

Long-story-short....

Are Paul Davidson and Bill Davidson the same person? If not, than one of the cards has the wrong photo, either the t-206 or the m-116. Which one is the correct photo? Anyway, been racking my brain over this one and thought I would offer it up to those more knowledgeable than I on the subject.

I offer up two scans of the two cards and links to their baseball reference pages as evidence. I look forward to any help on the subject.

Cheers,

Jim

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=davids001pau

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...avidbi01.shtml
Attached Images
File Type: jpg davidson.jpg (22.8 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg davidson2.jpg (31.3 KB, 214 views)
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
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Posts: 10,418
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My thought would be that the T206 picture is correct. Paul Davidson was with Indianapolis in 1908 and 1909. Bill Davidson had only 7 at bats in 1909 when the T206 was created, so doubtful the T206 designers had a photo of Bill available.

You can't always count on the MLB Reference photos to be correct, as evidenced by the Krueger/Kruger example on my website, but their Bill Davidson photo is clearly someone other than the image used on the cards you showed us.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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nolemmings nolemmings is offline
Todd Schultz
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Default not the same

Interesting parallels, but almost certainly not the same guy, Bill Davidson does have a minor league stat line, although not for 1909-1911 (check Bill, not William). He played 113 games for Fort Dodge Iowa in 1905, and Paul played 125 games for Dubuque that year. Although close geographically, they are two classes apart, and that's a lot of games in one year. Same with 1910--Paul played 98 games with Rock Island the same season Bill played 136 games in Brooklyn.

Can't help you with who is depicted on the cards, although the baseball reference photo for Bill does not look like the card to me.
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Though it's fainter now, the older I've become

Last edited by nolemmings; 03-26-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:50 PM
jalex jalex is offline
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Hey,

Yeah, and I got a PM from a Brooklyn collector who said as much. A little disappointing since I'd really like to know more about Paul Davidson, I guess the search continues. I found myself looking at the Bill Davidson photo on baseball reference and transforming him into Paul. Anybody know more about Paul Davidson other than what can be easily googled? And yeah, I thought that would be a lot of games in 1910, but you never know, and the minor league stats are iffy at best.

Cheers,

Jim

Last edited by jalex; 03-26-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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smokelessjoe smokelessjoe is offline
Shawn England
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dawsonville, Ga
Posts: 600
Default News articles...

Hi Jim,

Here are some blurbs I have found in the "Sporting Life" about Paul Davidson. Not sure if any of it helps????

Sept 11 1911
The veteran outflelder Paul Davidson, was released
by Dubuque. on August 29. Davidson was taken on
by Kock Island, but, like his case at that city, was
crowded out, of the line-up by younger blood.
A Dubuque dispatch under date- of August 3O
says: "Outflelder George Marmsch, of the Dubuque
team, has been sent home for the balance of the
season owing to poor physical condition caused by
sickness earlier in the year. Outflelder Davidson, re
leased Tuesday, has been recalled, and catcher Alien,
recently fined and suspended by Manager Rowland,
reinstated."


Aug 26 1911
Paul Davidson, veteran outfielder, has been released
by Rock Island to make room for Roy Sherer, a
youngster secured from Sioux City.


May 11 1907
American Association News.
Chris Lindsey is hitting better for Kansas City
than he ever "did for Detroit.
Columbus is fortified as usual this season
In having good utility -performers handy.
They say that Koehler. a discarded St. Louis
American player, is the fastest outfielder in the
American Association.
The Minneapolis club has purchased from the
Peoria club outfielder Paul Davidson, formerly
of the St. Louis Browns.
Harry Gessler. now of Columbus, made two
hits in his first game with Columbus. Jude, the
Indian of last season©s Redlegs, also hit for
two.

April 6 1907
News Notes.
Monte McFarland has cinched Pearl Holycross.
a twirler from Danville, and bought in addition in
fielder Dan Claire from the same team to play
with the Clinton infants.
The* Rock Island Club has sold shortstop David
Mulligan to Quincy, of the Iowa League.
Dubuque continues to have trouble with last
season©s men failing to sign up. Reagan has been
sold; Paul Davidson was a non-reserve; Harry
Sw©alm still seeks a position with the independents©;
Wilder declines to sign, and lastly third baseman
Ueitz sent in word he has signed with a Chicago
independent organization and would not report.


Oct. 10 1908
Indianapolis P. W. Werden, D. P. Howley, P. J.
Livingston, Howard Wakefleld, Edward Siever, Cajl
Druhot, W. J. Slagle, Louis Durham, Claude Eiliott,
Chris. Hudsay, Otto G. Williams, Wm.
Hopke, Paul Davidson, Jas. F. Cook, John F.
Hayden, A. M. Coulter, Ira Tevls, Clarence Mc-
Donnell (purchased), Dave Schreiber (purchased).
Bert West (purchased).



Aug 14 1909

Confidence in Manager Carr Unabated
Despite Lowly Position.
Indianapolis, Ind., August 7.—Paul Davidson,
center field of the Indianapolis team,
that won the American Association cham
pionship, has been sold to Omaha, of the
Western League. Davidson has not been
hitting well this year. Catcher Shaw was
unconditionally released today. Frank
Bowerman will do most of the catching for
the Indians for the rest of the season.
President W. H. Watkins, principal stock
holder of the club, has issued a statement,
expressing confidence in the management of
Charlie Carr, notwithstanding the slump on
the home grounds that has caused the team
to drop from the top to the bottom within
less than a month. Watkins says that the
addition of Chadbourne, Smith of the
Shreveport team; Bowerman and Linderman
will strengthen the Indians, and that they
will begin winning as soon as they hit the
road. Smith is a promising-looking player.
Watkins is after another pitcher.



April 22 1905
BY SECRETARY J. H. FARRELL.
Auburn, N. Y., April 12. Headquart
ers of the National Association of Pro
fessional Base Ball Leagues. Follow
ing- is the latest official bulletin of the
Secretary:
CONTRACTS.
With Dubuque Claude Stark, H. J.
Meek, J. Thiery, Paul Davidson, Ray
Whited, H. L. Gasper, R. Bisdorf, J.
Donahue, E. J. Phelan, F. B. Applegate,
Steve Reagan, Paul Cook, B. P.
Hadley.

AMERICAN ASSOCIATION NEWS.
The Toledo Club has signed for a trial a local
amateur pitcher named Fred Donovan.
The remains of the late catcher George Speer
were interred on July 23 in the family lot at Pittsburg.
The Louisville Club has purchased first baseman
Walter Salm from the Wheeling (Central League)
Club.
Charley Hickman is the only Toledo regular in
the .300 class. "Hick" is batting .309. The big
fellow is covering left field in fine style.
Andy Oyler, the crack shortstop of the Minneap
olis team, was severely spiked on the left wrist a
week ago and will be out for some time.
The Indianapolis Club has sold outflelder Paul
Davidson to the Omaha (Western League) Club; and
has unconditionally released catcher Shaw.
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:37 PM
jalex jalex is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 68
Default

Amazing stuff, thank you so much for looking for it. That's more about him than I have been able to find in a year. It's mostly technical stuff, but it at least leaves a bread crumb trail.... Thanks again. Off to work.

Cheers,

Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by smokelessjoe View Post
Hi Jim,

Here are some blurbs I have found in the "Sporting Life" about Paul Davidson. Not sure if any of it helps????

Sept 11 1911
The veteran outflelder Paul Davidson, was released
by Dubuque. on August 29. Davidson was taken on
by Kock Island, but, like his case at that city, was
crowded out, of the line-up by younger blood.
A Dubuque dispatch under date- of August 3O
says: "Outflelder George Marmsch, of the Dubuque
team, has been sent home for the balance of the
season owing to poor physical condition caused by
sickness earlier in the year. Outflelder Davidson, re
leased Tuesday, has been recalled, and catcher Alien,
recently fined and suspended by Manager Rowland,
reinstated."


Aug 26 1911
Paul Davidson, veteran outfielder, has been released
by Rock Island to make room for Roy Sherer, a
youngster secured from Sioux City.


May 11 1907
American Association News.
Chris Lindsey is hitting better for Kansas City
than he ever "did for Detroit.
Columbus is fortified as usual this season
In having good utility -performers handy.
They say that Koehler. a discarded St. Louis
American player, is the fastest outfielder in the
American Association.
The Minneapolis club has purchased from the
Peoria club outfielder Paul Davidson, formerly
of the St. Louis Browns.
Harry Gessler. now of Columbus, made two
hits in his first game with Columbus. Jude, the
Indian of last season©s Redlegs, also hit for
two.

April 6 1907
News Notes.
Monte McFarland has cinched Pearl Holycross.
a twirler from Danville, and bought in addition in
fielder Dan Claire from the same team to play
with the Clinton infants.
The* Rock Island Club has sold shortstop David
Mulligan to Quincy, of the Iowa League.
Dubuque continues to have trouble with last
season©s men failing to sign up. Reagan has been
sold; Paul Davidson was a non-reserve; Harry
Sw©alm still seeks a position with the independents©;
Wilder declines to sign, and lastly third baseman
Ueitz sent in word he has signed with a Chicago
independent organization and would not report.


Oct. 10 1908
Indianapolis P. W. Werden, D. P. Howley, P. J.
Livingston, Howard Wakefleld, Edward Siever, Cajl
Druhot, W. J. Slagle, Louis Durham, Claude Eiliott,
Chris. Hudsay, Otto G. Williams, Wm.
Hopke, Paul Davidson, Jas. F. Cook, John F.
Hayden, A. M. Coulter, Ira Tevls, Clarence Mc-
Donnell (purchased), Dave Schreiber (purchased).
Bert West (purchased).



Aug 14 1909

Confidence in Manager Carr Unabated
Despite Lowly Position.
Indianapolis, Ind., August 7.—Paul Davidson,
center field of the Indianapolis team,
that won the American Association cham
pionship, has been sold to Omaha, of the
Western League. Davidson has not been
hitting well this year. Catcher Shaw was
unconditionally released today. Frank
Bowerman will do most of the catching for
the Indians for the rest of the season.
President W. H. Watkins, principal stock
holder of the club, has issued a statement,
expressing confidence in the management of
Charlie Carr, notwithstanding the slump on
the home grounds that has caused the team
to drop from the top to the bottom within
less than a month. Watkins says that the
addition of Chadbourne, Smith of the
Shreveport team; Bowerman and Linderman
will strengthen the Indians, and that they
will begin winning as soon as they hit the
road. Smith is a promising-looking player.
Watkins is after another pitcher.



April 22 1905
BY SECRETARY J. H. FARRELL.
Auburn, N. Y., April 12. Headquart
ers of the National Association of Pro
fessional Base Ball Leagues. Follow
ing- is the latest official bulletin of the
Secretary:
CONTRACTS.
With Dubuque Claude Stark, H. J.
Meek, J. Thiery, Paul Davidson, Ray
Whited, H. L. Gasper, R. Bisdorf, J.
Donahue, E. J. Phelan, F. B. Applegate,
Steve Reagan, Paul Cook, B. P.
Hadley.

AMERICAN ASSOCIATION NEWS.
The Toledo Club has signed for a trial a local
amateur pitcher named Fred Donovan.
The remains of the late catcher George Speer
were interred on July 23 in the family lot at Pittsburg.
The Louisville Club has purchased first baseman
Walter Salm from the Wheeling (Central League)
Club.
Charley Hickman is the only Toledo regular in
the .300 class. "Hick" is batting .309. The big
fellow is covering left field in fine style.
Andy Oyler, the crack shortstop of the Minneap
olis team, was severely spiked on the left wrist a
week ago and will be out for some time.
The Indianapolis Club has sold outflelder Paul
Davidson to the Omaha (Western League) Club; and
has unconditionally released catcher Shaw.
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  #7  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:53 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
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Posts: 1,360
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The t206/M116 is almost certainly not Bill Davidson, below right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bill davidson t206.jpg (70.1 KB, 184 views)
File Type: jpg Bill Davidson Bkn NL 1910 2 00095.jpg (69.4 KB, 186 views)

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 03-26-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:44 PM
smokelessjoe's Avatar
smokelessjoe smokelessjoe is offline
Shawn England
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dawsonville, Ga
Posts: 600
Default Interesting...

Nice work Mark!

Here is another interesting article...

Dec. 1 1906

THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION.
Secretary J. H. Farrell, of the National
Board, Renders Decision in the Case
of Davidson Against Dubuque.
Auburn, N. Y., Nov. 20.—Following is
the decision by Secretary J. H. Farrell,
of the National Association, in
re application of player Paul Davidson
for removal of his name from the
Dubuque, Iowa, reserve list: Player
Davidson's name appeared upon the
original reserve list of the Dubuque,
Iowa Club. Calling- our attention to
the fact, the player protested, claiming-
a non-reserve contract with the
Dubuque Club. In reply the Dubuque
Club deny that the player's contract
was a non-reserve contract, and claim
that it was a conditional contract, as
per the following notation written on
the margin of the contract:
"Party of the second part agrees to play
with party of first part if in I.-I.-I. League
in 1907."
The Dubuque Club contends that
player Davidson agreed to play with
Dubuque if Dubuque was in the I.-I.-I.
League in 1907. The player contends
that the agreement and understanding
was that if he, Davidson, played in the
I.-I.-I. League in 1907 he was to play
with the Dubuque Club. In support of
his contention the player submits the
original letter of date of January 15,
addressed to him by Manager McFarland,
of the Dubuque Club, which
reads:
"You can see I have cut out the reserve
clause, and our agreement is. you are to play
in Dubuque next season (1907) if you are in
tills league."
When this player's contract was recorded
in this office the following- notation
was made upon the face of the
contract:
'-Non-reserve. J. H. F., April 30. 1906."
The body of the contract shows that
Section 4, the reserve clause, is stricken
out, and across the same is written
the word "void." On the margin of
contract opposite Section 4 appears
"non-reserve." This player clearly
understood he was not to be reserved
by the Dubuque Club unless he played
in the I.-I.-I. League. Further, in
view of the fact t-hat this player was
permitted to play the entire season
and no protest entered as to his contract
being- a non-reserve contract, it
is the ruling of the Board that the petition
of the player be allowed, and
his name stricken from the Dubuque
reserve list.
J. H. FARRELL, Secretary.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:18 PM
jalex jalex is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 68
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Very cool. Not exactly Curt Flood ground-breaking, but still an interesting little story in the bigger battle between players and owners. Looks like Davidson won his fight, but wound up back with Dubuque at the end of his career... Thanks for the research, sincerely.

-Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by smokelessjoe View Post
Nice work Mark!

Here is another interesting article...

Dec. 1 1906

THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION.
Secretary J. H. Farrell, of the National
Board, Renders Decision in the Case
of Davidson Against Dubuque.
Auburn, N. Y., Nov. 20.—Following is
the decision by Secretary J. H. Farrell,
of the National Association, in
re application of player Paul Davidson
for removal of his name from the
Dubuque, Iowa, reserve list: Player
Davidson's name appeared upon the
original reserve list of the Dubuque,
Iowa Club. Calling- our attention to
the fact, the player protested, claiming-
a non-reserve contract with the
Dubuque Club. In reply the Dubuque
Club deny that the player's contract
was a non-reserve contract, and claim
that it was a conditional contract, as
per the following notation written on
the margin of the contract:
"Party of the second part agrees to play
with party of first part if in I.-I.-I. League
in 1907."
The Dubuque Club contends that
player Davidson agreed to play with
Dubuque if Dubuque was in the I.-I.-I.
League in 1907. The player contends
that the agreement and understanding
was that if he, Davidson, played in the
I.-I.-I. League in 1907 he was to play
with the Dubuque Club. In support of
his contention the player submits the
original letter of date of January 15,
addressed to him by Manager McFarland,
of the Dubuque Club, which
reads:
"You can see I have cut out the reserve
clause, and our agreement is. you are to play
in Dubuque next season (1907) if you are in
tills league."
When this player's contract was recorded
in this office the following- notation
was made upon the face of the
contract:
'-Non-reserve. J. H. F., April 30. 1906."
The body of the contract shows that
Section 4, the reserve clause, is stricken
out, and across the same is written
the word "void." On the margin of
contract opposite Section 4 appears
"non-reserve." This player clearly
understood he was not to be reserved
by the Dubuque Club unless he played
in the I.-I.-I. League. Further, in
view of the fact t-hat this player was
permitted to play the entire season
and no protest entered as to his contract
being- a non-reserve contract, it
is the ruling of the Board that the petition
of the player be allowed, and
his name stricken from the Dubuque
reserve list.
J. H. FARRELL, Secretary.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:33 PM
dubuquer dubuquer is offline
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Posts: 1
Default Paul and Bill Davidson were brothers

Paul and Bill Davidson were brothers. See my short entry at Encyclopedia Dubuque at http://www.encyclopediadubuque.org/i...2C_Robert_Paul.

I think the T206 card is Paul Davidson rather than Bill. Compare it to this image from the Sept. 9, 1906 Dubuque Telegraph-Herald: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...2301%2C2226431

I'd like to submit my info and sources to SABR Encyclopedia, but I am not a member and don't know where to start or who to contact. Any tips?

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