How do I protect myself as a seller?

[Jetsfan]

Hope it’s OK if I post here, as I’m not really sure where this should go.

I have never sold a “big ticket” item before. I am looking to sell an item that is probably worth in the region of $4000. If I sell (not via eBay, at least for now) and accept PayPal, how do I protect myself from having the buyer just decide within 180 days that he/she wants to return it, for no specific reason? Or worse, what happens if in a few months, the buyer damages the item himself/herself and decides he/she wants to return it and blame me for the damage? I’d like to sell my item, but I’m concerned that I could end up having a damaged item returned to me, and I’m out the sale as well.

I’m thinking it may be safer to go through an auction house, but I’d really like to avoid the fees. Thank you all in advance.

Adam

[icollectDCsports]

What category of item is it?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

For a good item my fees would be very competitive or better than ebay's and I am not the only one who fits that description.

[Rhotchkiss]

An AH is not a bad idea under your circumstances, and Scott has already offered a fee-break, which is gracious and his AH is really up and coming, so that is a very fine option.

However, if you choose to try to sell direct first, Net54's BST is a great place to list the item. I, personally, have bought, sold, and traded many valuable items through Net54 BST, some of which were substantially more than $4k. First, you can "vet" any potential buyer by asking around (Leon has always been a solid reference resource) and in some cases, I have seen entire threads asking the board what they know about person X or Y. Second, you can insist on PayPal Friends and Family, which means the decision to return money is on you since PayPal (I think) has no policing responsibility. Finally, the risk of reputation damage on this Board to someone who punts on a deal may serve as a built-in protection against being a slimy buyer (and seller).

Regardless, good luck. And if your item is is something rare and old, PM me - I may be interested!

[Jetsfan]

Thank you everyone. Great advice. If I decide to sell, I’ll likely try here first.

Adam

[buymycards]

As a buyer, I would never use F&F on a $4k card.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

BST is a great option but I have to agree with Rick unless it's a seller with whom you have a real relationship buyers should protect themselves. At 3% as compared to ebay or auction fees I think it's worth it for you as the seller as well.

[Jetsfan]

Hi Scott,

I agree that I suspect most people would not want to spend a few thousand dollars with PayPal friends and family. However, it seems that regular PayPal is overly protective of the buyer and an unscrupulous buyer can really screw over an honest seller. From what I understand, it is hard to prevent returns for almost any reason with PayPal.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

True but the only 100% safe option (short of being held up at gunpoint) is an in person cash transaction. Leon does a good job of removing the bad actors from this site. Not mean people or guys who think they're smarter than everyone else, but rather people who can't be trusted in a business deal. That's no guarantee either but the horror stories from BST are virtually non-existent and there have been large deals conducted there regularly. I would say if you have a proposed BST deal, ask the seller for references or if he minds you asking the opinion of the board.

[MikeKam]

I would personally recommend that you stay away from Friends and Family PayPal payments - in my opinion, they should only truly be used for friends and family transactions and not business.

I've seen multiple instances where a buyer has gone on spending sprees sending out friends and family payments for items, with payments being sourced from their credit card, and then filing charge backs after receiving the item with PayPal and the seller having no recourse.

If you're very worried about being scammed and want peace of mind, I say bite the bullet and go with the most foolproof avenue of sale like an AH as you mention.

[Goudey77]

As Aquariun Sports Cards mentioned a service where you have a third party broker your deal is the best option.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by buymycards

As a buyer, I would never use F&F on a $4k card.

I cannot agree more. F&F just takes another level of buyer protection away. Small dollar amounts..no problem but 4k? I Don't think so

[Hankphenom]

Or money order? And wait for it to clear before sending the item? Is this not done anymore?

[bnorth]

Hundred dollar bills in a envelope works pretty good. Using a auction house would work also.

[Exhibitman]

If you are that worried, AH all the way. They take all the risks of transit and returns for you.

[murphy8276]

You want protection from a charge-back or a return, but you do not want to pay fees to utilize these protections? There are likely no options other than cash in that case....

[packs]

Auction House is the only way to hold a sale under your terms. I echo previous sentiment that I would not send anyone I didn't know money via Paypal that didn't protect my interests first. I wouldn't send a money order or check for the same reason.

[hcv123]

I have done many transactions as a seller with people I didn't know directly - on BST and through 3rd party introduction. I usually try to get a feel for who I'm dealing with - never been burned badly. I second the check or money order idea - or auction house. Also F&F if you can get the buyer to agree. What are you considering selling? I suspect you may already have received PM's, so why not let us all know? Good luck.

Howard

[Jetsfan]

Thanks again everyone for the advice. If I end up deciding to sell, think I’ll start with BST.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by packs

Auction House is the only way to hold a sale under your terms. I echo previous sentiment that I would not send anyone I didn't know money via Paypal that didn't protect my interests first. I wouldn't send a money order or check for the same reason.

I'm not sure I follow. An auction house may be the best route, but it wouldn't be on the OP's own terms. A $4k item does not allow one to dictate terms to an auction house. You will have to follow their rules. Selling a card on your own allows you to hold the sale on your terms.

[Jewish-collector]

Set up at a show (or use a friend's booth) and sell it that way. Try the Philly or White Plains show or the Atlantic City National this summer.

[packs]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm not sure I follow. An auction house may be the best route, but it wouldn't be on the OP's own terms. A $4k item does not allow one to dictate terms to an auction house. You will have to follow their rules. Selling a card on your own allows you to hold the sale on your terms.

Bad word choice on my part; the terms I meant were the terms of being protected as a seller.

[MikeGarcia]

..How much would anyone max-bid to a typical AH for the final result of " Congrats ; Here's the card- as soon as you send us 4 K $ " --- I'm thinking the consignor gets maybe 28-29 hundred ? Am I in the ballpark on that amount ?

..

[icurnmedic]

So, I have a situation as we speak. The rundown. I sold a Coin on June 28, 2019 for $400 shipped. Payment sent, received, Item sent, tracking, insured , picked up by buyer at PO 7/3/19 at 9:02 am. 89 days later, a chargeback was filed , and funds were taken from my PP account to cover the $400 ( + $20 pp chargeback fee) . I received emails saying that PP was reviewing the dispute. Around 7 days later I received an email stating that PP had decided the dispute not in my favor. I then contacted eBay, a few days later, and was told the chargeback wasn't done thru them and they could do nothing about it. By this time the item page is gone so I can't even see original listing. So, I call PayPal . After around 30 minutes of discussion w/ a nice lady named Lexy, I was assured I had done everything correct and was told I would be getting my funds back. Well, she issued the $20 back( it is some kind of fee that PP assesses a Seller , I was told , like a defense attorney fee) as again, I have done everything I was suppose to do. So I waited a few weeks, thought maybe some time for them to process the $400. But nothing. So Im just off the phone this morning with a nice gentleman named Mike. He basically tells me since it was a chargeback thru the CC issuer that PP does not protect the seller in this case. So now I am out $400 and the Gold Coin. I ask him what he would do, and he tells me nice enough, that just to know your buyer. Well , on auctions, I don't know who is buying what.

So what precedent does this set? Moving forward I am feeling very hesitant about selling online. I mean, if I do EVERYTHING I am required to do and still lose the Item and the money, well then that's just not good business my friend. Im thinking moving forward , requiring money orders up front. ( but then I have seen/received counterfeit ones of those as well) I guess only USPS MO!

Below is the last email I received from PP.

Dear Tom ,

We've been working with your buyer's financial institution to resolve the dispute for the transaction detailed below.

Buyer's name: Tunc Ulge
Buyer's email: startu2008@yahoo.com
Buyer's transaction ID: 43U41539N92229027
Your transaction ID: 9S142981GS233184F
Transaction date: June 28, 2019
Transaction amount: $400.00 USD
Disputed amount: $400.00 USD
After our efforts to resolve this dispute on your behalf, your buyer’s financial institution decided in the buyer’s favor.

While we cannot dispute this transaction any further, we encourage you to contact your buyer directly to reach a resolution.

Thank you for your patience during this process. We appreciate your business.

You can find additional information and tips about buying and selling safely on our Business Resource Center. After you log in to your PayPal account, click Tools, and then click Business Resource Center under "Grow your business."

Sincerely,

PayPal

[packs]

I don't think you can really get upset at Paypal about this kind of policy. They exist solely to protect the payee and they do an incredible (maybe too good) job protecting anyone sending funds via their service.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by packs

Bad word choice on my part; the terms I meant were the terms of being protected as a seller.

That makes more sense. And I agree. Unless I know someone personally or a hobby friend vouches for them I just consign everything. Easier and much less risk.

[Exhibitman]

Thomas:

There is (allegedly) a seller protection policy on PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...agreement-full

PayPal's Seller Protection Program
What’s eligible
If you sell something to a buyer and the transaction is later disputed or reversed under Reversals, Claims or Chargebacks, you may be eligible for reimbursement under PayPal’s Seller Protection program. When it applies, PayPal’s Seller Protection program entitles you to retain the full purchase amount and we will waive any related chargeback fees paid (for debit and credit card-funded transactions). There is no limit on the number of payments for which you can receive coverage. By accessing the transaction details page in your PayPal account you can determine whether or not your transaction is eligible for protection under this program
PayPal’s Seller Protection program may apply when a buyer claims that:
They did not authorize, or benefit from, funds sent from their PayPal account (referred to as an “Unauthorized Transaction” claim); or
They didn’t receive the item from you (referred to as an “Item Not Received” claim).
PayPal’s Seller Protection program may also apply when a transaction is reversed because of a successful chargeback by a buyer or when a bank funded payment is reversed by the buyer’s bank.
This section describes PayPal’s Seller Protection program as it applies to you, but you should also be familiar with the Impact of various purchase protection processes on sellers.

Basic requirements
To be eligible for PayPal’s Seller Protection, you must meet all of the following requirements:
The primary address for your PayPal account must be in the United States.
The item must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped.
You must ship the item to the shipping address on the transaction details page in your PayPal account for the transaction. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the transaction details page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery.
You must respond to PayPal's requests for documentation and other information in a timely manner as requested in our email correspondence with you or in our correspondence with you through the Resolution Center. If you do not respond to PayPal’s request for documentation and other information in the time requested, you may not be eligible for Seller Protection.
If the sale involves pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, you must ship within the timeframe you specified in the listing. Otherwise, it is recommended that you ship all items within 7 days after receipt of payment.

Item Not Received additional requirements
To be eligible for PayPal’s Seller Protection program for a buyer’s Item Not Received claim, you must meet both the basic requirements listed above and the additional requirements listed below:
Where a buyer files a chargeback with the issuer for a card-funded transaction, the payment must be marked “eligible” for PayPal’s Seller Protection on the Transaction Details page.
You must provide proof of delivery as described below.

Unauthorized Transactions additional requirements
To be eligible for PayPal’s Seller Protection program for a buyer’s Unauthorized Transaction claim, you must meet both the basic requirements listed above and the additional requirements listed below:
The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” for PayPal's Seller Protection on the Transaction Details page.
You must provide proof of shipment or proof of delivery as described below.

Did you apply for reimbursement under the PayPal program?