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  #1  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:39 PM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Default Happy 50th Birthday to a Future Hall-of-Famer:

Mike Mussina could get in as early next month.



Garnered 63.5 % last year....Edgar Martinez was the only candidate who received more without being elected.

5-Time All-Star; 7-Time Gold Glove

270W- 153L .638 WPCT

2,813K ; 3.58 K/W ratio

WAR - 83.0 which would rank 29th out of the 63 current Hall-of-Fame Pitchers.

Finally won 20 games in his last year at the age of 38.

He had (2) seasons each with 18 & 19 wins.

17 straight years with at least 11 wins.



...I know, I know...'wins are de-valued these days'.

BULL!

He gets my vote!



===
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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.

Last edited by clydepepper; 12-08-2018 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Adding statistics
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2018, 03:58 PM
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Where do you get 63 pitchers? I see 79 as the official figure. Anyhow, I think Mussina gets in this time around.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:33 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:49 PM
dgo71 dgo71 is offline
Derek 0u3ll3tt3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
Same thing that happened with Donnie Baseball.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2018, 08:00 PM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Where do you get 63 pitchers? I see 79 as the official figure. Anyhow, I think Mussina gets in this time around.
All stats are from BBR...not sure how they got that number.


By the way, In 2018, Edgar got 70.4 percent of the vote and Moose got 63.5


and only one player who ever got 60% never got in(*)and Gil Hodges got to that level THREE times!

I'm really surprised more people don't complain about Gil Hodges never getting in.



*- Morris got at least 60% THREE times, but got in via the Veterans-ish committee last year.

=
__________________
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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2019, 08:57 PM
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Wes
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Who is Mike Mussina?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:47 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
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I would like to see Mussina get in. He played his whole career in the tough AL East against strong teams, and he pitched thru the steroid era too which raises your ERA. He retired with a 20 win season which means he could have pitched more if he wanted to, and might have reached 300 wins with two more years.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:49 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
Yeah, it happens. Look how many years Mattingly played for the Yankees without a championship, and the first year he is retired they win.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:54 AM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman View Post
Yeah, it happens. Look how many years Mattingly played for the Yankees without a championship, and the first year he is retired they win.


...and Nomar was traded the year the 'Sox finally won.


the 'Sox won 53 and lost 21 after the trade.


Fate is cruel sometimes.




.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.

Last edited by clydepepper; 01-12-2019 at 11:07 AM. Reason: adding detail
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:26 PM
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rats60 rats60 is offline
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It is not looking good for Mussina to get in this year. With 41% of the known votes, he has gained 16 votes from last year. Last year he was 49 short. The voters who remain anonymous have a tendency to voter for fewer players.

Edgar Martinez is looking good to get in. He has gained 17 votes and was only short 20 last year. It is looking like a 3 man class of Rivera, Halladay and Martinez. With Jeter the only strong candidate on next year's ballot, I would expect Mussina to join Jeter as the BBWAA 2020 HOF class.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:51 AM
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Yastrzemski Sports Yastrzemski Sports is offline
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Mussina should definitely be in before Smoltz and maybe Glavine. If Mussina had taken a job in the NL you could lower his era a half point and he would have had 300 wins. Itís hard to believe the voters havenít taken that into account. My guess would be that he gets in either 2020 or 21.
Edgar does appear to be closing in. To me, Edgar doesnít belong at all. If he played a position he wouldnít even be in the conversation. Players career stats most comparable to him are Will Clark, Magglio Ordonez and Moises Alou. He had 2200 hits and 300 hr with no other real accolades. If you have a ballot I donít know how you vote for Edgar before Fred McGriff, Jeff Kent and Larry Walker.
I expect Mariano and Halladay will sail in and they should.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
Mussina should definitely be in before Smoltz and maybe Glavine. If Mussina had taken a job in the NL you could lower his era a half point and he would have had 300 wins. Itís hard to believe the voters havenít taken that into account. My guess would be that he gets in either 2020 or 21.
Edgar does appear to be closing in. To me, Edgar doesnít belong at all. If he played a position he wouldnít even be in the conversation. Players career stats most comparable to him are Will Clark, Magglio Ordonez and Moises Alou. He had 2200 hits and 300 hr with no other real accolades. If you have a ballot I donít know how you vote for Edgar before Fred McGriff, Jeff Kent and Larry Walker.
I expect Mariano and Halladay will sail in and they should.
Disagree. Glavine won 2 Cy Youngs was 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Smoltz also won a Cy Young and then went to the bullpen to help the Braves as a closer and won Fireman of the Year. Because of them the Braves won their division every year from 1991-2002 (2005 for Smoltz).

Mussina finished in the top 3 of Cy Young voting once. If Mussina gets elected, only Jack Morris and Red Ruffing will have higher ERAs. The lower ERA is ridiculous. The league difference is about .25 before ignoring that the pitching was much better in the NL. Who was Mussina competing with? Clemens 91-03 and Pedro 98-04. Still he couldn't win a Cy Young, never led in ERA or WHIP. Also, his win total would have been lower in the NL. In the AL, he never got pulled for a pinch hitter.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Disagree. Glavine won 2 Cy Youngs was 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Smoltz also won a Cy Young and then went to the bullpen to help the Braves as a closer and won Fireman of the Year. Because of them the Braves won their division every year from 1991-2002 (2005 for Smoltz).

Mussina finished in the top 3 of Cy Young voting once. If Mussina gets elected, only Jack Morris and Red Ruffing will have higher ERAs. The lower ERA is ridiculous. The league difference is about .25 before ignoring that the pitching was much better in the NL. Who was Mussina competing with? Clemens 91-03 and Pedro 98-04. Still he couldn't win a Cy Young, never led in ERA or WHIP. Also, his win total would have been lower in the NL. In the AL, he never got pulled for a pinch hitter.
Let me throw some numbers out there.
Mussina 270-153 .638%. 2813 k, 3.68 era, 123 era+.
Glavine 305-203 .600%. 2607 k, 3.54 era, 118 era+.
Smoltz 213-155 .579%. 3084 k, 3.33 era, 125 era+. And 154 saves.

Era+ shows a truer measure of how the player performs in relation to their league. Yes, the Braves have a ws the cy. Mussina has 7 gold gloves - not as important but a nice plus. But you canít convince me of any reason why the Braves would go in first ballot and Mussinas first year he got 20% and had to climb over 6 years to get close. I would argue that heís way more deserving than Smoltz - who had good years as a starter and reliever but didnít do enough as either to get in. And Mussina, in some ways, is better than Glavine. Glavine has the magic 300 number and the 2 cy but over the course of their career Mussina is right there.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:23 PM
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rats60 rats60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
Let me throw some numbers out there.
Mussina 270-153 .638%. 2813 k, 3.68 era, 123 era+.
Glavine 305-203 .600%. 2607 k, 3.54 era, 118 era+.
Smoltz 213-155 .579%. 3084 k, 3.33 era, 125 era+. And 154 saves.

Era+ shows a truer measure of how the player performs in relation to their league. Yes, the Braves have a ws the cy. Mussina has 7 gold gloves - not as important but a nice plus. But you canít convince me of any reason why the Braves would go in first ballot and Mussinas first year he got 20% and had to climb over 6 years to get close. I would argue that heís way more deserving than Smoltz - who had good years as a starter and reliever but didnít do enough as either to get in. And Mussina, in some ways, is better than Glavine. Glavine has the magic 300 number and the 2 cy but over the course of their career Mussina is right there.
We will just have to disagree. ERA+ is heavily biased when there is a talent discrepancy between leagues like there was in Mussina's career. Changing careers wouldn't have effected his career ERA, which is bad by HOF standards, like you claim. He was never one of the top pitchers in his league despite a void of talent (only 1 top 3 Cy Young finish). He was an accumulator and that is the only reason his is getting HOF support.

Tom Glavine on the other hand was one of the best pitchers in baseball for a decade, 2 Cy Youngs, 6 top 3 finishes, led NL in wins 5 times and 9 division titles with the 10th year being the strike. He also hit the magic 300 win mark. He is a no brainer as a 1st ballot HOFer.

Smoltz is a little bit behind Glavine as he only had the 1 Cy Young season as a starter. His case is more a combination of that along with 3 seasons as an elite closer (144 saves and FotY) and a 15-4 postseason record. That is #2 in wins all time. For starters with 100+ innings only Curt Schilling had a better win percentage and Smoltz pitched 209 postseason innings. I wouldn't have put him in on the 1st ballot, but he is definitely ahead of Mussina. He is basically Mussina with 3+ years as an elite closer plus one of the greatest post season pitchers of all time.
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:18 PM
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Mussina deserves to be in the Hall (of the Very Good). Right next to Baines.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:58 PM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is online now
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Dave Concepcion deserves to be in the Hall. Assuming you believe that Ozzie Smith deserves to be there.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Promethius88 View Post
Dave Concepcion deserves to be in the Hall. Assuming you believe that Ozzie Smith deserves to be there.
Tim- make your case for your statement...or is it just an opinion?



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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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