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  #1  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:51 PM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Default Ohtani ROY, really?????

I guess Ohtani makes sense as the ROY if you compare his 162 game average with Andujar's 162 game average. Based on the 162 game averages, Ohtani is just marginally better, as a DH.

However, Ohtani played in only 104 games.

I will agree that Ohtani is a better (seldom used, often injured) pitcher than Andujar.


IMO, this is the second time in 3 years an Angels player has robbed a more deserving player of a post season award.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
I guess Ohtani makes sense as the ROY if you compare his 162 game average with Andujar's 162 game average. Based on the 162 game averages, Ohtani is just marginally better, as a DH.

However, Ohtani played in only 104 games.

I will agree that Ohtani is a better (seldom used, often injured) pitcher than Andujar.


IMO, this is the second time in 3 years an Angels player has robbed a more deserving player of a post season award.
Who was the first? Trout/ Simmons?

- oh, and, technically it's a regular season award not a post-season award...no Angel would have or could have won one of those.
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Last edited by clydepepper; 11-12-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:04 PM
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Ohtani 3.9 WAR Andujar 2.2 WAR. Ohtani provided a lot more value, even though he played fewer games. Lest you think this is a new concept, Willie Mccovey won ROY even though he only played 52 games.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:09 PM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
Who was the first? Trout/ Simmons?

- oh, and, technically it's a regular season award not a post-season award...no Angel would have or could have won one of those.
The MVP award for the 2016 "regular season", awarded following (post) the 2016 regular season, was to Trout instead of Betts....as a Yankee fan, it is exceedingly tough to admit that Betts was far more deserving than Trout that season.

For the Angels, yet another undeserving "regular" season award .

As you mention, if ROY was indeed a "post-season"/playoff award, Ohtani would not have been eligible since the Angels finished the season below .500 (80-82), just as they were also below .500 in 2016 when Trout was awarded the MVP.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:31 PM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Ohtani 3.9 WAR Andujar 2.2 WAR. Ohtani provided a lot more value, even though he played fewer games. Lest you think this is a new concept, Willie Mccovey won ROY even though he only played 52 games.
I get McCovey....he was an unanimous choice for a reason, he was apparently the only rookie who had a great season that year, or in other words his partial season was better than any other rookies season. There were no votes for any other players for that season's ROY.

There were two Yankees, IMO more deserving of the award than Ohtani w/o considering WAR. But if WAR has to be considered:

Ohtani's WAR was for both his pitching and his batting....offensively his WAR 2.7 and defensively was -.7. Offensively Ohtani was behind both Andujar (4.6) and Torres (2.9). Defensively Torres was .5 and followed by Andujar at -2.2.

If Ohtani some how deserves the award for his pitching......

Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 11-12-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:07 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Miguel Andujar had better stats and should have won it, but they say his poor fielding was the difference.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:32 AM
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I agree the 15 errors and sub. 950 Fpct at third did not compliment his offensive achievements. Ohtani did not have many opportunities to make any fielding errors this season, as he had a total of 7 chances from the mound and none from the bench as he became just the second DH to win the ROY award.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:39 AM
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Another thing to consider are that today's game is tilted towards power hitting and hitting in a lineup as loaded as the Yankees has advantages over lineups that are less so...like the Angels.



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Old 11-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
I get McCovey....he was an unanimous choice for a reason, he was apparently the only rookie who had a great season that year, or in other words his partial season was better than any other rookies season. There were no votes for any other players for that season's ROY.

There were two Yankees, IMO more deserving of the award than Ohtani w/o considering WAR. But if WAR has to be considered:

Ohtani's WAR was for both his pitching and his batting....offensively his WAR 2.7 and defensively was -.7. Offensively Ohtani was behind both Andujar (4.6) and Torres (2.9). Defensively Torres was .5 and followed by Andujar at -2.2.

If Ohtani some how deserves the award for his pitching......
Ohtani OPS+ 152 Andujar OPS+ 126. Ohtani was a much better hitter than Andujar. He just didn't get the at bats because the Angels saw the value of him pitching. Ohtani deserves the award because of his pitching and his superior hitting.

It is a catch 22. If Ohtani wasn't such a good pitcher, he would have gotten more at bats and put up better counting stats. When Ohtani became a regular DH, he hit .328/.423/.672/1.083 in August. In September. 310/.371/.632/1.003. Andujar had 0 months of 1+ OPS and only 1 month of even .9 OPS. The voters saw that Ohtani was the superior hitter who also brought value as a pitcher with a 126 ERA+ and 11 K/9. He had a historic season and that is why he got 25 of 30 votes.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:22 AM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
Another thing to consider are that today's game is tilted towards power hitting and hitting in a lineup as loaded as the Yankees has advantages over lineups that are less so...like the Angels.



-
Through late July(or about half his season), Ohtani typically batted 6th or higher in the order and was hitting in the .250s. with 9 HRs. Over the last 2 months of the season he he moved up in the batting ahead sometimes ahead of Trout but in front of Upton and his batting took off as he was seeing much better pitching batting 3rd or 4th in the order than 6th.

In the majority of Yankeee games this season, Andujar batted most typically 6-8th in the line up with no one hitting behind him. Late in the season (Sept) with Judge out, he batted 4th with Didi behind him.....Didi was the best hitter to hit behind him all season.

So if these two player's line-ups were considered when voting, Ohtani benefitted much more from his line-up than did Andujar.


At least the writers got the NL ROY correct.
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