Hey, pennant guys

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Domer05

...there's one other Notre Dame pennant, that I know of, that features the term and the year 1924 on it. I've never actually seen it, so who knows if any exist today, but I do believe it was made. You can read all about it, and my attempt to reproduce it, here...

Sorry. I put the wrong URL. Try here: https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...e-pennant-1925

[murphusa]

Great selection of pennants in the Hunt auctions all star auction

[Dc1917]

As promised, attaching photos of other ND pennants from the '20s to maybe early '50s. Very slow buildup on the framing, but I'll get there eventually . The first two pictured are likely next in line alongside the '24 championship one.

I'm thinking of getting the Fighting Irish one restored, but would welcome thoughts on if that's worth the effort. Pennant is from Green Mountain Studios - missing its 3rd set of tassels and has extensive moth damage in areas, but it exists!

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Dc1917

As promised, attaching photos of other ND pennants from the '20s to maybe early '50s. Very slow buildup on the framing, but I'll get there eventually . The first two pictured are likely next in line alongside the '24 championship one.

I'm thinking of getting the Fighting Irish one restored, but would welcome thoughts on if that's worth the effort. Pennant is from Green Mountain Studios - missing its 3rd set of tassels and has extensive moth damage in areas, but it exists!

That's an amazing collection of ND pennants. WOW!

[UKCardGuy]

A few recent pick ups arrived today. Nothing super rare but I was looking for the Killebrew pennant and found it in an unlikely online auction from Canada.

Catalog References:

• MWBW004-TBC
• NYMT022-TBC
• LADG008-ADFL
• MNTW003-TBC

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

A few recent pick ups arrived today. Nothing super rare but I was looking for the Killebrew pennant and found it in an unlikely online auction from Canada.

Catalog References:

• MWBW004-TBC
• NYMT022-TBC
• LADG008-ADFL
• MNTW003-TBC

Maybe not super rare, but super cool!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Dc1917

As promised, attaching photos of other ND pennants from the '20s to maybe early '50s. Very slow buildup on the framing, but I'll get there eventually . The first two pictured are likely next in line alongside the '24 championship one.

I'm thinking of getting the Fighting Irish one restored, but would welcome thoughts on if that's worth the effort. Pennant is from Green Mountain Studios - missing its 3rd set of tassels and has extensive moth damage in areas, but it exists!

Those are some great pennants! The first two are off the charts!

You know, in the 107 pages and 5300 posts to this thread, I don’t know if we’ve ever discussed professional restoration. I ‘ve done my share of amateur restoration but would have a clue how to handle the moth damage to the Fighting Irish. Do you know of a person who does that kind of work?

I’m interested to see what others have to say about restoration. My guess is the opinion will be “go for it if you intent to keep it; you must disclose it if you ever sell.” Personally, I'd love to see if something could be done.

We’re all on a first name basis....what’s yours?

[ooo-ribay]

P.S. is there a tag for Green Mountain Studios?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Those are some great pennants! The first two are off the charts!

You know, in the 107 pages and 5300 posts to this thread, I don’t know if we’ve ever discussed professional restoration. I ‘ve done my share of amateur restoration but would have a clue how to handle the moth damage to the Fighting Irish. Do you know of a person who does that kind of work?

I’m interested to see what others have to say about restoration. My guess is the opinion will be “go for it if you intent to keep it; you must disclose it if you ever sell.” Personally, I'd love to see if something could be done.

We’re all on a first name basis....what’s yours?

I can't imagine that would be cheap, so it would have to be reserved for very special pennants. And who wants to risk messing with those? In 25+ years of collecting, I've never see a pennant that was described as professionally restored...so it's either not a thing or not worth the money. Maybe others have?

[ooo-ribay]

On closer inspection, it seems the only really bad portions are lower left and upper right. You could do what I’ve done….cut out little felt patches and tape them from the back.

[ooo-ribay]

I just picked up a book on the Pacific Coast League. Check out these beauties...

[Domer05]

Restoration?? Are you kidding? Nooooooooo. How on earth would you replace missing pieces of 100+ year old, sun faded, patina'd felt? Between that and the frame you'd spend more than the pennant was worth (and, you'd certainly devalue it for resale purposes).

I say let these priceless artifacts show their age. Sure, the Declaration of Independence's looking a bit shabby; but, nobody's about to trace over John Hancock's signature, just to make it look like it did on July 4, 1776.

It's a 100+ year old pennant. It's okay to look old.

If you want a happy medium, I recommend scanning the color of the primary felt color; printing it in the shape of a triangle; and placing the pennant atop this background, so the pennant appears--from a distance--to be one, intact pennant. Up close, you'll see the holes; and that will convince others that they're looking at a truly special (and unrestored) pennant. Everybody wins!

This is precisely how the Smithsonian displayed the Star Spangled Banner for many decades.

Just make sure the background is printed on acid free material. Or better yet, use felt ... if you can match the color.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Restoration?? Are you kidding? Nooooooooo. How on earth would you replace missing pieces of 100+ year old, sun faded, patina'd felt? Between that and the frame you'd spend more than the pennant was worth (and, you'd certainly devalue it for resale purposes).

I say let these priceless artifacts show their age. Sure, the Declaration of Independence's looking a bit shabby; but, nobody's about to trace over John Hancock's signature, just to make it look like it did on July 4, 1776.

It's a 100+ year old pennant. It's okay to look old.

If you want a happy medium, I recommend scanning the color of the primary felt color; printing it in the shape of a triangle; and placing the pennant atop this background, so the pennant appears--from a distance--to be one, intact pennant. Up close, you'll see the holes; and that will convince others that they're looking at a truly special (and unrestored) pennant. Everybody wins!

This is precisely how the Smithsonian displayed the Star Spangled Banner for many decades.

Just make sure the background is printed on acid free material. Or better yet, use felt ... if you can match the color.

That sounds like a good plan.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

On closer inspection, it seems the only really bad portions are lower left and upper right. You could do what I’ve done….cut out little felt patches and tape them from the back.

I've got a Cardinals pennant I did that to. You can barely tell...from the front.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Restoration?? Are you kidding? Nooooooooo. How on earth would you replace missing pieces of 100+ year old, sun faded, patina'd felt? Between that and the frame you'd spend more than the pennant was worth (and, you'd certainly devalue it for resale purposes).

I say let these priceless artifacts show their age. Sure, the Declaration of Independence's looking a bit shabby; but, nobody's about to trace over John Hancock's signature, just to make it look like it did on July 4, 1776.

It's a 100+ year old pennant. It's okay to look old.

If you want a happy medium, I recommend scanning the color of the primary felt color; printing it in the shape of a triangle; and placing the pennant atop this background, so the pennant appears--from a distance--to be one, intact pennant. Up close, you'll see the holes; and that will convince others that they're looking at a truly special (and unrestored) pennant. Everybody wins!

This is precisely how the Smithsonian displayed the Star Spangled Banner for many decades.

Just make sure the background is printed on acid free material. Or better yet, use felt ... if you can match the color.

That's a great and practical solution.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Those ND early pennants are off the charts as is the national champs one.

That Killebrew pennant is nice and tougher than the different photo versions you see around more. DWR is the expert on the Twins photo pennants

[UKCardGuy]

I'm working on more updates to the Pennant Catalog. I came upon this Connie Mack Athletics pennant from an auction in 2019. The listing says that the top was restored. I'm assuming that means the spine and tassels were replaced.

I'm interested on thoughts on this one? Does anyone remember the auction in 2019?

https://paragonauctions.com/CIRCA_19...-LOT10045.aspx

[ooo-ribay]

Saw these on ebay. I have a couple of different Giants pennants done by Schmidt's. I thought it was cool to see the whole intact set, along with string and directions for display options (not $250 cool, tho).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I'm working on more updates to the Pennant Catalog. I came upon this Connie Mack Athletics pennant from an auction in 2019. The listing says that the top was restored. I'm assuming that means the spine and tassels were replaced.

I'm interested on thoughts on this one? Does anyone remember the auction in 2019?

https://paragonauctions.com/CIRCA_19...-LOT10045.aspx

Don't bother with it. The pennant is a common/obvious reproduction, and the Auction House is clueless. Someone got taken, and it's this kind of thing that really screws the hobby. Just LMK if you need an image of the real one.

[Darner]

I've tried repairing old felt and it is possible. This was my first attempt on an faded A's pennant with a bad tip. If I ever do it again I would take more time to match the color better as it came out a little bit too dark. I did it by needle felting wool fibers to reproduce the felt.

PS. !f I had an historically old/valuable pennant I wouldn't have touched it.

[Dc1917]

The Athletics repair job is well done - slight color difference but I'm not sure I would have really noticed without the call out.

Addressing a few of the earlier comments... The Fighting Irish pennant does have a Green Mountain Studios tag (can faintly see it in in pic below middle tassels).

For reference, the unnegotiated quote that I received to repair it was $600, which includes stitching to a mat (defrays some costs of overall framing). The guy is a textile restoration expert who predominantly does work for museums.

I don't necessarily see how having a pennant professionally restored would devalue it, as a key part of professional restoration is having the ability to remove what was added on, but definitely agree it's a cost vs. benefit exercise. The ideas of playing around with the underlying background are good and seem like the best option for my particular situation - it does have some "character" in its current state.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Darner

I've tried repairing old felt and it is possible. This was my first attempt on an faded A's pennant with a bad tip. If I ever do it again I would take more time to match the color better as it came out a little bit too dark. I did it by needle felting wool fibers to reproduce the felt.

PS. !f I had an historically old/valuable pennant I wouldn't have touched it.

That’s fantastic, Ed! Could you explain what you mean by “needle felting wool fibers”?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Darner

I've tried repairing old felt and it is possible. This was my first attempt on an faded A's pennant with a bad tip. If I ever do it again I would take more time to match the color better as it came out a little bit too dark. I did it by needle felting wool fibers to reproduce the felt.

PS. !f I had an historically old/valuable pennant I wouldn't have touched it.

That's pretty impressive and I probably wouldn't have noticed a color difference if you hadn't mentioned. Did you start with a wad of loose felt fibers or did you have a patch of felt that you were able to needle to the pennant and then trim with scissors? That pennant looks like it regenerated its own tip the way a lizard would its tail.

[Darner]

In needle felting you start with a wad of fibers, usually wool but there are plenty of synthetics if you want that. They sell dyed wool in a wide variety of colors so you can blend them together to make any color you need. Then you use a felting needle to repeatedly stab through the fibers. The needle has barbs which pushes the fibers through the other fibers and you keep stabbing until they are weaved together. With enough work you get a solid form. A lot of people needle felt sculptures like animals, dolls, pretty much anything. I learned about needle felting from my wife who teaches art to kids.

To patch a pennant, you can weave into an existing piece of felt pushing the new fibers into the old. Do it enough, you’ll build up a new piece of wool felt. It’ll be fuzzier than the original but you can use an iron to get it flat to match the original felt. To finish, trim to match the edge of the pennant.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Darner

In needle felting you start with a wad of fibers, usually wool but there are plenty of synthetics if you want that. They sell dyed wool in a wide variety of colors so you can blend them together to make any color you need. Then you use a felting needle to repeatedly stab through the fibers. The needle has barbs which pushes the fibers through the other fibers and you keep stabbing until they are weaved together. With enough work you get a solid form. A lot of people needle felt sculptures like animals, dolls, pretty much anything. I learned about needle felting from my wife who teaches art to kids.

To patch a pennant, you can weave into an existing piece of felt pushing the new fibers into the old. Do it enough, you’ll build up a new piece of wool felt. It’ll be fuzzier than the original but you can use an iron to get it flat to match the original felt. To finish, trim to match the edge of the pennant.

I still can't really grasp the concept but I'm sure there's a youtube video if I ever want to give this a try!

[UKCardGuy]

I bought some felting needles a couple of months ago but haven't gotten around to using them yet.

I found this video that seemed to explain it well. https://youtu.be/2fdnQhma0-8

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I bought some felting needles a couple of months ago but haven't gotten around to using them yet.

I found this video that seemed to explain it well. https://youtu.be/2fdnQhma0-8

The comments provide another tip.....to remove the musty smell, spray with vodka!

[Bartholomew_Bump_Bailey]

So I purchased this awhile back from an estate sale in Texas (online) it was part of a "lot" that had an 84' Cubs division champs pennant, which is the only reason I bought them lol

anywho, I was trying to research and came across this article:

https://theundefeated.com/features/w...-was-at-stake/

any thoughts on if this pennant may be that old and/or referencing that particular game? thanks....

[Domer05]

Mike:

I knew nothing about that game or backstory. Thanks for sharing your pennant and supporting article.

It sure seems to be a legit pennant made for sale at this historic "Soul Bowl" game. The pennant's by WGN; and, they used this same artwork + letter font to commemorate Super Bowl pennants made during the late 1960s and early 1970s. Special event pennants were kind of their jam. Since an estimated 60,000 fans packed Yankee Stadium to watch this game, I have little doubt the company viewed a game of this caliber as being pennant-worthy.

In fact, there's a 1968 Super Bowl II dueling pennant by WGN showcasing the Packers vs. Raiders matchup from that year's game. It had to have been made a few weeks away from this game. It looks quite similar to yours; same artwork; same letter script, except it reads, "Super Bowl" rather than "Soul Bowl." See: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...ry/wgn-flag-co

Again, thanks for the history lesson. This is why I love pennants!

[Bartholomew_Bump_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Thanks for sharing your pennant and supporting article.

No no no no.......thank YOU, that was a really cool read and extremely helpful. I believe I may want to invest in my first pennant protector!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Darner

I've tried repairing old felt and it is possible. This was my first attempt on an faded A's pennant with a bad tip. If I ever do it again I would take more time to match the color better as it came out a little bit too dark. I did it by needle felting wool fibers to reproduce the felt.

PS. !f I had an historically old/valuable pennant I wouldn't have touched it.

Well here's a rare historical pennant that just sold for 1/10th of its "would be" value in EX condition. Even with all of its faults, the graphics appear completely undisturbed...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14408520244...p2047675.l2557

Whoever won this one might consider paying you a handsome sum to perform your "felting needle magic". Can't imagine a better candidate, if the right color burgundy wool could be obtained. I am normally against restoration, but this one could really benefit from the "felting" procedure.

Great job on the A's Pennant, BTW!

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well here's a rare historical pennant that just sold for 1/10th of its "would be" value in EX condition. Even with all of its faults, the graphics appear completely undisturbed...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14408520244...p2047675.l2557

Whoever won this one might consider paying you a handsome sum to perform your "felting needle magic". Can't imagine a better candidate, if the right color burgundy wool could be obtained. I am normally against restoration, but this one could really benefit from the "felting" procedure.

Great job on the A's Pennant, BTW!

Despite the graphics being in good shape, I was a little surprised at price this pennant received. Granted it’s rare, but that’s a lot of damage. If restored and then sold again, even though I collect Cubs pennants, I would not be interested. Curious how others feel.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by MK

Despite the graphics being in good shape, I was a little surprised at price this pennant received. Granted it’s rare, but that’s a lot of damage. If restored and then sold again, even though I collect Cubs pennants, I would not be interested. Curious how others feel.

I would've paid that. I think it's still a stunning pennant and will look great framed. Probably would've gone for what...4-5K if not moth eaten?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well here's a rare historical pennant that just sold for 1/10th of its "would be" value in EX condition. Even with all of its faults, the graphics appear completely undisturbed...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14408520244...p2047675.l2557

Whoever won this one might consider paying you a handsome sum to perform your "felting needle magic". Can't imagine a better candidate, if the right color burgundy wool could be obtained. I am normally against restoration, but this one could really benefit from the "felting" procedure.

Great job on the A's Pennant, BTW!

I, for one, am seeing possibilities with the "felting" procedure.

[ser1979]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I, for one, am seeing possibilities with the "felting" procedure.

I just mastered the art of "bleaching" a pennant to get stains out now I have to take up sewing, lol

[thetahat]

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

EDIT: Bad, bad joke …

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

Very cool!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

Are you certain?

Any chance it's a nod to Christy Mathewson, the pitcher? Looks to be from the 1910s, when he was among the NL's best pitchers.

Can we get a close-up of the artwork?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Are you certain?

Any chance it's a nod to Christy Mathewson, the pitcher? Looks to be from the 1910s, when he was among the NL's best pitchers.

Can we get a close-up of the artwork?

Ah, I’m sorry that was me trying to be funny. It’s Christy. I don’t even know if there is a town called Mathewson. I will post the graphic shortly, it’s definitely him …. Just interesting how it looks so much like a team pennant.

[thetahat]

It’s him.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

Wow! Ever seen that one before?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Wow! Ever seen that one before?

Nope … similar graphic on a 1910’s Giants pennant however.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Very cool!

You fooled me, although I wondered how many armadillos there were in Saskatchewan. In this case very, very, very cool!

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

EDIT: Bad, bad joke …

Thanks for sharing this fabulous find. Lone survivor perhaps?

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just picked up this rare old minor league pennant, of the Class D Mathewson (Saskatchewan) Armadillos ….

EDIT: Bad, bad joke …

Damn! You just beat me picking up that Matty. It was there, i quickly read the info and clicked the “buy”… GONE!! Must have beat me by seconds.

Congrats!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Thanks for sharing this fabulous find. Lone survivor perhaps?

Possibly, I haven’t seen it before.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by sporteq

Damn! You just beat me picking up that Matty. It was there, i quickly read the info and clicked the “buy”… GONE!! Must have beat me by seconds.

Congrats!

Thank you. I had a deal worked out with the seller, and was waiting to pounce on it.

[Domer05]

Greg, I thought I told you: never joke about 100+ year old pennants!

Okay, you got me ... thought maybe you missed the connection; and, I was gonna totally make your day.

Cool pennant. Seems to be manufactured by the same mystery maker as this ca. 1916 Brooklyn Robins (Dodgers) pennant. Artwork is very similar, down to the charcoal shading used on the uniforms; and the coloring of the shadows between the players' legs.

Which means the Dodgers and Giants, in this mystery artist's view, wore identical unis back then....

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Thank you. I had a deal worked out with the seller, and was waiting to pounce on it.

Hello, you had a deal with the seller makes me feel better. That means
I probably had ZERO chance. Enjoy that awesome relic

Albert

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Greg, I thought I told you: never joke about 100+ year old pennants!

Okay, you got me ... thought maybe you missed the connection; and, I was gonna totally make your day.

Cool pennant. Seems to be manufactured by the same mystery maker as this ca. 1916 Brooklyn Robins (Dodgers) pennant. Artwork is very similar, down to the charcoal shading used on the uniforms; and the coloring of the shadows between the players' legs.

Which means the Dodgers and Giants, in this mystery artist's view, wore identical unis back then....

Yep that’s a good observation. This has me wondering, are there any other player-dedicated pennants this old?