The Mets - Same crap as the last crap

[Snapolit1]

Is this really going to be the most Mets season of all time? I can’t bear to watch anymore. Highest payroll in baseball. Owner is one of the richest men in America. He spends money hand over fist. And have found new ways to underperform against the odds. Into my 5th decade rooting for this team, this is really a little much. Seriously thinking of getting a second team.

[cgjackson222]

Been absolutely brutal lately. Lost 9 of 10.

Alonso injured, Drew Smith suspended.

Scherzer and Verlander look washed up. Megill is awful.

Can't hit with runners on. Can't sustain a lead.

For me, the bright spots have been Senga and Alvarez, but that hasn't been enough.

[Jim65]

JMO but they have a long way too go to top the "Worst Team Money Could Buy"

This team is frustrating. When they hit, they don't pitch and vice versa. Last year they grinded at bats and made the opposing pitcher work, they got away from that this year. Billy Eppler is a horrible GM that has made some bad moves. The Mets plan of signing older pitchers to short term deals until the pitching prospects are ready, has backfired. The manager's insistence to play veterans over young players has hurt their development, Vientos was brought up to ride the bench, he should be playing every day, here or Syracuse.

[Seven]

They had to know the risks were high when they backed up the brinks truck for the top two pitchers of their rotation, who are both pushing 40.

[packs]

Yeah, I'm not sure they're underperforming against all odds. They signed two aging starters who were going to have their last good seasons sooner or later.

[SAllen2556]

As a Tiger fan, i understand your pain. I always thought the Cardinals would be a good second team - though they're down this year. They always seem legitimately good - unlike the Yankees who just buy good teams to mask their incompetence. The Twins have always been a well run organization too, especially for their market size.

I don't think the Mets are out of it just yet though. Check back at the all-star break.

[mrreality68]

Billy Eppler needs to be on the hot seat. Nothing wrong with spending the money but if you spend it wrong then it makes it worse.
He brought in alot of players and most of them are not working out.
To me his failure
1. Not building depth
2. Not addressing DH
3. Taking to many risks

See below and how many of these have worked out Season to Date

Here is a LINK to all the offseason moves

Extensions, signings, trades, waiver claims

https://www.mlb.com/news/every-mets-...2-23-offseason

Nimmo
Diaz
Verlander
Senga
Quintana
Narveaz
Ottavino
Robertson
Mendick
Riley
Greene
Elieser Hernández
Jeff Brigham
Stephen Ridings
Tayler Saucedo

[philliesfan]

I love the fact that the Mets are doing poorly.......but so are my Phillies.

My adopted second team is the Orioles. They have some great young talent and I wish I could see them more on tv. Rutschman and Gunner are players to watch. Glad I have them both on my fantasy team.

Bob

[Seven]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I love the fact that the Mets are doing poorly.......but so are my Phillies.

My adopted second team is the Orioles. They have some great young talent and I wish I could see them more on tv. Rutschman and Gunner are players to watch. Glad I have them both on my fantasy team.

Bob

Nola seems to be very up and down this season. June has come, and Schwarber is back to hitting home runs at least. His average being under the Mendoza line is less than ideal. It also doesn't help that he's forced to play the field, with Harper having to DH. The Braves have an easy lock on the division, but the Phillies could get hot, down the stretch, and snag a wildcard.

[philliesfan]

I agree. I don't count them out. I will always root for the Phillies......even after I retire and move to Maryland (Calvert County area) or Florida (outside of Clearwater).

Clearwater area would be nice. My wife would never see me. I would live at Spring Training and out on a boat fishing and crabbing the rest of the year.

Bob

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Billy Eppler needs to be on the hot seat. Nothing wrong with spending the money but if you spend it wrong then it makes it worse.
He brought in alot of players and most of them are not working out.
To me his failure
1. Not building depth
2. Not addressing DH
3. Taking to many risks

See below and how many of these have worked out Season to Date

Here is a LINK to all the offseason moves

Extensions, signings, trades, waiver claims

https://www.mlb.com/news/every-mets-...2-23-offseason

Nimmo
Diaz
Verlander
Senga
Quintana
Narveaz
Ottavino
Robertson
Mendick
Riley
Greene
Elieser Hernández
Jeff Brigham
Stephen Ridings
Tayler Saucedo

Nimmo and Diaz were must signs. Senga and Robertson have been good. Brigham is serviceable. Ottavino and Verlander have been bad. Quintana is coming back soon so its like acquiring a decent starter mid-season.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Agreed that this team is hard to watch. Eppler needs to go!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

The Twins have always been a well run organization too, especially for their market size.

The Twins are a perennial .500 team, at best, and they've lost their last 17 playoff games in a row which has to be a record of futility.

They look better because their mediocrity is usually enough to be in post-season contention, since their division is so weak.

[clydepepper]

As a Braves' fan, I'm loving this...even though Atlanta is not as strong as they were with Freeman and Swanson...defense has really suffered.

Braves have also had numerous injuries, but, at least Acuna is at full health again.
.

[Snapolit1]

I sort of think the Mets could sign Lou Gehrig circa 1925 and he would break a leg and miss the next 3 seasons rehabbing. Just how it goes.

[todeen]

Second teams aren't always the answer. I'm a Reds fan, my second team is Seattle, my third team is Cleveland, and my fourth team is Colorado. My fifth team is Minnesota. Guess what? None of my teams have one a WS is my lifetime. The most success has been Cleveland, and two of their WS were heart breaking losses.

Why these teams you ask? I grew up in Billings MT. They had an MiLB affiliate for the Reds. Seattle, Colorado, and Minnesota were the three closest teams all about the same distance in every direction. Cleveland was due to Tris Speaker....I could have just as easily been a Red Sox fan except for the picture I had of him was in a Cleveland jersey!

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[mrreality68]

Agreed Eppler has to go all that money and so little results

Think about it over $380 mill payroll and that is with multiple kids playing at key positions

It is good they have a great owner who is not afraid to spend but they need to know how to spend it wisely.

Spending it on big name players is ok if they are not super old, not injury prone, and/or not a key player

and then forget about depth..........ugh

[jayshum]

Of the NL playoff teams from 2022, only the Braves and Dodgers are having decent seasons so far, but with 90 or so games to go, a lot can still change.

[tod41]

Buck shows over and over again why he wears out his welcome wherever he goes. He is not a good manager at all.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tod41

Buck shows over and over again why he wears out his welcome wherever he goes. He is not a good manager at all.

+1 agree

And he is “known” for having his team prepared, fundamentals, and hustle.

And last year most of the year it looked it

This year it looks like he and the team forgot

[Jim65]

So a 4 time Manager of the Year isn't a good manager? They won 101 games last year and all of a sudden Buck is bad? I guess its Bucks fault that Diaz was hurt or that their $341 Million player is hitting.220 or that Verlander and Scherzer have been bad or that Marte got off to a terrible start or McNeil's average dropped 50 points or that Ottavino has been inconsistent or that they cannot hit in the clutch, etc. Buck has his faults, he is too loyal to veteran players, like Vogelbach, but what old school manager wasn't?

Its amazing how fast fans turn on managers. It was Callaway's fault, then it was Rojas fault, now its Bucks fault. Then it will be the next manager's fault?

This team is poorly constructed, I blame Alderson and Eppler for that.

[Snapolit1]

It is comical how much fans rage at managers and not the folks who actually constructed the team. Yeah I'm sure Buck's two judgment calls a game about selecting pinch hitters and calling for the old hit and run that are what's really the issue here.

Do people still think the manager creates the lineup or decides what relief pitcher is coming in? Analytics baby.

Baseball managers are a lot like airline pilots these days. Computers tell them what do do, and they spend long periods of time basically just watching what's happening like you and me.

Originally Posted by Jim65

So a 4 time Manager of the Year isn't a good manager? They won 101 games last year and all of a sudden Buck is bad? I guess its Bucks fault that Diaz was hurt or that their $341 Million player is hitting.220 or that Verlander and Scherzer have been bad or that Marte got off to a terrible start or McNeil's average dropped 50 points or that Ottavino has been inconsistent or that they cannot hit in the clutch, etc. Buck has his faults, he is too loyal to veteran players, like Vogelbach, but what old school manager wasn't?

Its amazing how fast fans turn on managers. It was Callaway's fault, then it was Rojas fault, now its Bucks fault. Then it will be the next manager's fault?

This team is poorly constructed, I blame Alderson and Eppler for that.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by Jim65

So a 4 time Manager of the Year isn't a good manager? They won 101 games last year and all of a sudden Buck is bad? I guess its Bucks fault that Diaz was hurt or that their $341 Million player is hitting.220 or that Verlander and Scherzer have been bad or that Marte got off to a terrible start or McNeil's average dropped 50 points or that Ottavino has been inconsistent or that they cannot hit in the clutch, etc. Buck has his faults, he is too loyal to veteran players, like Vogelbach, but what old school manager wasn't?

Its amazing how fast fans turn on managers. It was Callaway's fault, then it was Rojas fault, now its Bucks fault. Then it will be the next manager's fault?

This team is poorly constructed, I blame Alderson and Eppler for that.

Yes the 4 time manager of the year is not a good manager. He should not have won it last year anyway. The team collapsed when it counted. Buck has no creativity and no fire as a manager. He is a media darling and therefore, highly overrated. It's no coincidence that the Yankees, Diamondbacks and Rangers were better off when he was fired. Having said that, Alderson and Eppler deserve the lion share of the blame for this mess. The Lindor deal and the aftermath of it will continue to haunt this team.

[mrreality68]

My gripe with Buck is his effectiveness.
You are right he does not pick players and cannot control injuries but he can control how his team prepares, executes, fundamentals.

Many teams go thru adversity and it is the manager to manage and just this year I do not think he is getting thru to his team to at least hustle, play disciplined baseball, more effort and better defense

And the reality baseball is a what have you done for me lately. And sadly lately his team does not look as effective as it could be.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Buck is awful. I don't know how any Met fan can convince themself otherwise at this point.

I'm tired of seeing:

-Ottavino serve up HRs in the 9th (bullpen mismanagement is Buck's specialty, as we all know)
-the corpse of Vogelbach taking DH ABs away from young hitters
-Alvarez batting in the lower part of the order

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Buck is awful. I don't know how any Met fan can convince themself otherwise at this point.

I'm tired of seeing:

-Ottavino serve up HRs in the 9th (bullpen mismanagement is Buck's specialty, as we all know)
-the corpse of Vogelbach taking DH ABs away from young hitters
-Alvarez batting in the lower part of the order

Like I said, fans blamed Callaway, then Rojas, now Buck. At what point is it the players fault for not hitting or pitching? Or Eppler's fault for signing old pitchers and not having a real DH?

[RCMcKenzie]

Is Bregman's homer from his previous at bat still going? What a rope that was. I guess he knows Verlander's signs and stole them all!

[RCMcKenzie]

I only root against the Mets when they play the Astros. See you guys in the World Series.

[mrreality68]

The Mets and San Diego both are not doing well this year. Both have spent alot of money and both on paper look like they should be competitive.

Injuries play a factor as they do for all teams so that should be taken out of the equation.

I think the owners need to really take a long look at their organization and see where the opportunities are.

GM? Manager? Coaches? Scouting? etc.

And many say trade certain players. Well another team would need or want them and what can you get back.

It is hard to watch either team but the Mets are the hardest to watch and their line up is the least scariest in the game today

[tod41]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

The Mets and San Diego both are not doing well this year. Both have spent alot of money and both on paper look like they should be competitive.

Injuries play a factor as they do for all teams so that should be taken out of the equation.

I think the owners need to really take a long look at their organization and see where the opportunities are.

GM? Manager? Coaches? Scouting? etc.

And many say trade certain players. Well another team would need or want them and what can you get back.

It is hard to watch either team but the Mets are the hardest to watch and their line up is the least scariest in the game today

It starts and ends with Lindor and his massive contract. You can't have a 230 hitter batting third and expect to have a great lineup. Lindor can't hit elite or even good pitching, especially left handed. The Mets analytics department did a poor job in evaluating Lindor long term. Lindor feasted on the poor teams in the AL Central which made his numbers misleading.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tod41

It starts and ends with Lindor and his massive contract. You can't have a 230 hitter batting third and expect to have a great lineup. Lindor can't hit elite or even good pitching, especially left handed. The Mets analytics department did a poor job in evaluating Lindor long term. Lindor feasted on the poor teams in the AL Central which made his numbers misleading.

I do not disagree his contract is an issue but their payroll can absorb it. They have to many other contracts are no good also and they should not have thrown that money around. But at the end of the day no one is living up to their contracts or their potential.
They also have no real DH, no depth, and to many players trending towards the down side of their careers.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I love the fact that the Mets are doing poorly.......but so are my Phillies.

My adopted second team is the Orioles. They have some great young talent and I wish I could see them more on tv. Rutschman and Gunner are players to watch. Glad I have them both on my fantasy team.

Bob

Mets fan that is adopting the Orioles as a second team here.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Mets fan that is adopting the Orioles as a second team here.

actually we are adopting therapists

[Snapolit1]

Biggest problem on the team is a guy with 50 rbi and 14 HR in June? Not the non existent starting pitching and pathetic middle relief and bullpen missing an all star? Who cares what his salary is. Doesn’t matter to Cohen.



[/B]

Originally Posted by tod41

It starts and ends with Lindor and his massive contract. You can't have a 230 hitter batting third and expect to have a great lineup. Lindor can't hit elite or even good pitching, especially left handed. The Mets analytics department did a poor job in evaluating Lindor long term. Lindor feasted on the poor teams in the AL Central which made his numbers misleading.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Biggest problem on the team is a guy with 50 rbi and 14 HR in June? Not the non existent starting pitching and pathetic middle relief and bullpen missing an all star? Who cares what his salary is. Doesn’t matter to Cohen.



[/B]

Steve knows this about me but I couldn’t agree more on the many knocks against Lindor. Scary that we have him for his late career years too.

[D. Bergin]

I’d gladly give Giancarlo Stanton and Josh Donaldson on Tuesday, for a Francisco Lindor and a Hamburger today.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’d gladly give Giancarlo Stanton and Josh Donaldson on Tuesday, for a Francisco Lindor and a Hamburger today.

Ahhh, nevermind. How about just the Hamburger?

[Casey2296]

Don't look now, but the SF Giants no name squad with a payroll of less than 1/2 of what the Mets are paying have spun off 9 straight wins and have the 4th best record in the NL.

Still early yet but they are fun to watch.

And only 13 more years to go until the Mets stop paying Bobby Bonilla...

[Kevin]

Serious question: not that I’d trust Eppler, but when do you start entertaining trade talk for Scherzer and Verlander ?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Serious question: not that I’d trust Eppler, but when do you start entertaining trade talk for Scherzer and Verlander ?

As a Mets fan, with these guys on short term deals they are very tradeable and I’d love to see some prospects added into the fold. Feels like pride will get in the way.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Serious question: not that I’d trust Eppler, but when do you start entertaining trade talk for Scherzer and Verlander ?

Verlander has a no-trade clause. Who's going to want old pitchers making $43M a year?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Verlander has a no-trade clause. Who's going to want old pitchers making $43M a year?

If someone needs a starter for a playoff push and is willing to trade a good prospect the salary can be worked out.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Carter08

If someone needs a starter for a playoff push and is willing to trade a good prospect the salary can be worked out.

I just looked at Scherzer's contract details and he also has a full no-trade clause. Scherzer does have a player option for next season, I can't see him opting out of $43M. So he would not be a rental, even if he waived his no-trade.

Honestly, I don't see a team taking that salary and giving a prospect in return.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’d gladly give Giancarlo Stanton and Josh Donaldson on Tuesday, for a Francisco Lindor and a Hamburger today.

I actually like Lindor and he is not worth his contract. But he stays healthy and plays. His average sucks but he is relatively steady (not spectacular) and he does plays a good position and does put up some good numbers. AGAIN NOT WORTH his contract but that is what he judge him against and WE should. the money the Mets can live with.
The contract will really suck in the later years but

You can keep Stanton and Donaldson. They have health and performance issues.

and 1 Player is not destroying the Mets it is the way the entire team is contracted, the flaws in the roster, and the overall terrible way they are playing. IF lindor sucked but everyone else played to the back of their baseball cards they would be winning alot more

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I just looked at Scherzer's contract details and he also has a full no-trade clause. Scherzer does have a player option for next season, I can't see him opting out of $43M. So he would not be a rental, even if he waived his no-trade.

Honestly, I don't see a team taking that salary and giving a prospect in return.

Yeah, Mets aren't getting rid of Max and Justin. No one would want them unless the Mets paid 80-90% of the salary and for that cost they might as well just keep them.

[Snapolit1]

If you asked 10 baseball lifers to list the top 3 reasons the Mets are a disaster this year not one would list Lindor. I guarantee it. To argue that all their problems start with Lindor is off the wall. Scoring 7-8 runs a game lately and can't win.

If you ask Mats fans I'm guessing most of them would say Lindor is the first or second reason the Mets are where they are.

And a lot of them would comment on how much he smiles and how crazy his hair is, which I don't think savvy baseball people are particularly interested in.

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I actually like Lindor and he is not worth his contract. But he stays healthy and plays. His average sucks but he is relatively steady (not spectacular) and he does plays a good position and does put up some good numbers. AGAIN NOT WORTH his contract but that is what he judge him against and WE should. the money the Mets can live with.
The contract will really suck in the later years but

You can keep Stanton and Donaldson. They have health and performance issues.

and 1 Player is not destroying the Mets it is the way the entire team is contracted, the flaws in the roster, and the overall terrible way they are playing. IF lindor sucked but everyone else played to the back of their baseball cards they would be winning alot more

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If you asked 10 baseball lifers to list the top 3 reasons the Mets are a disaster this year not one would list Lindor. I guarantee it. To argue that all their problems start with Lindor is off the wall. Scoring 7-8 runs a game lately and can't win.

If you ask Mats fans I'm guessing most of them would say Lindor is the first or second reason the Mets are where they are.

And a lot of them would comment on how much he smiles and how crazy his hair is, which I don't think savvy baseball people are particularly interested in.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that Lindor is a major reason the Mets are not good. He’s supposed to be a top of the order perennial all star. You need one or two of those to be a good team. That’s what the Mets brass expected from Lindor and they paid accordingly. They were wrong. Is he better than Canha and Vogelbach? Obviously. Is he a perennial all star? Does not look like it.

[D. Bergin]

Lindor had a 5.5 WAR and was 9th in the MVP voting just last year. Maybe he's under-performing so far this year, but I'd take him in the Yankees lineup (and on the field) in a heartbeat over a good portion of the dead weight they've been running out there (or not) lately.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If you asked 10 baseball lifers to list the top 3 reasons the Mets are a disaster this year not one would list Lindor. I guarantee it. To argue that all their problems start with Lindor is off the wall. Scoring 7-8 runs a game lately and can't win.

If you ask Mats fans I'm guessing most of them would say Lindor is the first or second reason the Mets are where they are.

And a lot of them would comment on how much he smiles and how crazy his hair is, which I don't think savvy baseball people are particularly interested in.

Lindor leads all MLB shortstops in Home Runs, RBIs and Runs. He also is a very good defensive SS. Some fans only see his contract and hated him from Day 1, he's a lot like Beltran, who was an outstanding Met but remains unpopular because of a huge contract and a tough first year in NY. Lindor is also a stand-up guy who answers every question after a game, win or lose.

I believe Lindor is overpaid but who cares? We have an owner willing to spend, this isn't the Wilpons anymore.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Lindor leads all MLB shortstops in Home Runs, RBIs and Runs. He also is a very good defensive SS. Some fans only see his contract and hated him from Day 1, he's a lot like Beltran, who was an outstanding Met but remains unpopular because of a huge contract and a tough first year in NY. Lindor is also a stand-up guy who answers every question after a game, win or lose.

I believe Lindor is overpaid but who cares? We have an owner willing to spend, this isn't the Wilpons anymore.

Lot of Met fans who hate Beltran or Carlos Delgado will wax poetic about Joe McEwing. Twisted fan base in a lot of ways.