The Mets - Same crap as the last crap

[cgjackson222]

Sad to see Canha go, but nice to pick up a halfway decent pitching prospect from Milwaukee in Justin Jarvis. Thought it was very telling that Jarvis was the Brewers' 30th highest prospect, but will be the Mets' 13th highest. Shows how weak their farm system is, now that they've called up 3 of their top guys (Alvarez, Baty and Vientos).

And let's face it, the Mets need young pitchers.

Heck, the 23 year old, half-baked Jarvis may already be as good as Carrasco.

[BobbyStrawberry]

JV back to the Astros. Curious to see what the return is....

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

JV back to the Astros. Curious to see what the return is....

Supposedly Mets get 22 year-old outfield Drew Gilbert, Houston's # 1 prospect (but only 68th highest in MLB), plus one other prospect.

[packs]

I actually think the other prospect is the jewel of the trade. Ryan Clifford has a lot going for him.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Supposedly Mets get 22 year-old outfield Drew Gilbert, Houston's # 1 prospect (but only 68th highest in MLB), plus one other prospect.

Originally Posted by packs

I actually think the other prospect is the jewel of the trade. Ryan Clifford has a lot going for him.

Are either of these guys rated as highly as the younger Acuña?

[packs]

I would guess that both Gilbert and Clifford are more impactful than Acuna. Acuna is blocked by Lindor and then blocked again by Mauricio. I'm not really sure what the Mets interest in him is.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by packs

I would guess that both Gilbert and Clifford are more impactful than Acuna. Acuna is blocked by Lindor and then blocked again by Mauricio. I'm not really sure what the Mets interest in him is.

My guess is that Mauricio is not coming up to play SS, as they have played him at 2b, 3b and OF the last couple of years. Perhaps Acuña is looking 3, 4 years ahead when Lindor's defensive skills have eroded a bit?

[packs]

I don't think you'd want to suppress a 21 year old shortstop for that long. It seems like Lindor isn't going anywhere. He's signed through 2032 and if he has to move from short, I don't know where he goes.

I'm guessing Mauricio will take over at second eventually, which is why I think he still blocks Acuna.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think you'd want to suppress a 21 year old shortstop for that long. It seems like Lindor isn't going anywhere. He's signed through 2032 and if he has to move from short, I don't know where he goes.

DH? Or Steve could always eat 80% of his salary and move him...

[packs]

There's always DH but the NL is going to catch up to the AL in terms of having a monster on the bench every half inning who's there to hit 35 to 40 homers. Lindor would be a pretty weak DH in that world.

[mrreality68]

I am happy with all 3 of those prospects. Acuna was rated the highest of them all at #44.
Happy with those 3 just not happy that the Mets did not get any high potential pitching prospects.
Especially they now have 2 monster holes in the top of their line up next year.
The pitching market is not that great this off season except for Othani of course

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

I would guess that both Gilbert and Clifford are more impactful than Acuna. Acuna is blocked by Lindor and then blocked again by Mauricio. I'm not really sure what the Mets interest in him is.

When you are a shortstop, you are typically the most versatile player on the field, in that you can play several other positions. As this article points out, Acuna could play 2b (freeing up McNiel to take over for Canha) or CF like his older brother.

Few other position players can fill the role of a shortstop, but a shortstop can fill the role of several other positions usually.

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

When you are a shortstop, you are typically the most versatile player on the field, in that you can play several other positions. As this article points out, Acuna could play 2b (freeing up McNiel to take over for Canha) or CF like his older brother.

Few other position players can fill the role of a shortstop, but a shortstop can fill the role of several other players usually.

I understand the potential for that, but it's only potential. Acuna has played a total of 4 games in the outfield in the minors. Gilbert and Clifford are natural outfielders. The Mets also already have Baty as their future 3B and Mauricio behind Lindor, who I assume they will shift to 2B. I don't see them moving Nimmo out of center for Acuna either as he's signed through 2030.

My guess is that Acuna is ultimately trade bait for another player, which isn't a bad thing either.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

I understand the potential for that, but it's only potential. Acuna has played a total of 4 games in the outfield in the minors. Gilbert and Clifford are natural outfielders. The Mets also already have Baty as their future 3B and Mauricio behind Lindor, who I assume they will shift to 2B. I don't see them moving Nimmo out of center for Acuna either as he's signed through 2030.

My guess is that Acuna is ultimately trade bait for another player, which isn't a bad thing either.

I'm fine with trade bait as well. Sometimes you just get the best talent you can, and figure out how the pieces fit afterwards.

[packs]

It's how he was most valuable to the Rangers being that they have Seager already. I'm sure the Mets would be delighted to flip Acuna for a put us over the edge starter of their own a season or so down the road.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I'm fine with trade bait as well. Sometimes you just get the best talent you can, and figure out how the pieces fit afterwards.

I would prefer they keep Ocuna and even make him the DH and back up other positions or rotate to allow others to DH and stay fresh and then Ocuna covers their positions that day.

Get rid of Vogelbach waste of a DH. He walks a lot but can only walk once he is on base

[tod41]

With the dust settling, feel much better about the direction of this team. This was needed. They won't hit on all of these prospects, of course. But the process is better. They will likely sign Yamamodo if posted. They will likely tank to a very high protected pick in 24. Watch out for Vargas - he might end up being the jewel of the trading deadline.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by tod41

With the dust settling, feel much better about the direction of this team. This was needed. They won't hit on all of these prospects, of course. But the process is better. They will likely sign Yamamodo if posted. They will likely tank to a very high protected pick in 24. Watch out for Vargas - he might end up being the jewel of the trading deadline.

Yup, this just feels like a better direction. It’s really tough to buy a championship. It can happen but chances are you’ll end up with a team that doesn’t play like a team. Having a few guys that played together in the minors and then into their primes in mlb is very underrated (no stats for that) and something the Mets have lacked.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tod41

With the dust settling, feel much better about the direction of this team. This was needed. They won't hit on all of these prospects, of course. But the process is better. They will likely sign Yamamodo if posted. They will likely tank to a very high protected pick in 24. Watch out for Vargas - he might end up being the jewel of the trading deadline.

I agree but we will have to wait and See. Cohen came out and said that they will be competitive next year will they build towards 25/26.

I would prefer to do it with someone other than Eppler but we will see what the off season brings us

whoever they go after I hope they are younger and not injury prone.

[ALBB]

Mets now starting to find their way ....

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Mets now starting to find their way ....

The way they are sadly finding there way over a cliff. 21-3 and 6-0 very impressive double header.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

The way they are sadly finding there way over a cliff. 21-3 and 6-0 very impressive double header.

At least they found another arm on the team. Danny Mendick could be their 5th starter for the rest of the year

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

At least they found another arm on the team. Danny Mendick could be their 5th starter for the rest of the year

LOL

Braves' position players pitch better than Mets' position players.


.

[Carter08]

Tonight is starting out the same. Mets are lost. Hopefully they’ll be competitive next year but I’d be very happy with 2-3 years.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

LOL

Braves' position players pitch better than Mets' position players.


.

Raymond sadly you are mistaken

Braves position players currently pitch better than the Mets starting pitching.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Tonight is starting out the same. Mets are lost. Hopefully they’ll be competitive next year but I’d be very happy with 2-3 years.

Anonymous sources saying his teammates don’t like him? (Honestly, I can see that.) My question: who on the team matters more than him? Lindor? Nimmo? McNeil? Other than that, no one on the team has an option that matters

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Anonymous sources saying his teammates don’t like him? (Honestly, I can see that.) My question: who on the team matters more than him? Lindor? Nimmo? McNeil? Other than that, no one on the team has an option that matters

Which sources say Alonso is unliked by his teammates? Isn't he best friends with McNeil? Nimmo and Lindor may be more valuable from a WAR perspective, (Lindor has 4.3 this year, Nimmo and Alonso tied at 2.6) but no one is more popular with the fans than the Polar Bear.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Which sources say Alonso is unliked by his teammates? Isn't he best friends with McNeil? Nimmo and Lindor may be more valuable from a WAR perspective, (Lindor has 4.3 this year, Nimmo and Alonso tied at 2.6) but no one is more popular with the fans than the Polar Bear.

I believe it is Sal Lacata on FAN.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I believe it is Sal Lacata on FAN.

I don't think Sal said Alonso was unpopular in the clubhouse, but he did say that the clubhouse culture is rotten and that Alonso is part of it.

This is the same guy that on Thursday 8/10 said “There’s no way they can trade Alonso. Maybe the reason they had him on the [trading] block was to see what type of young pitching they could get back for him, but even then, they’d be idiots to trade Alonso. The guy has consistent power, which is something that’s impossible to find. Look across the sport, nobody in Mets’ history has had four straight seasons with 35 or more home runs. Nobody has had more home runs since Pete Alonso has come into the league in 2019 than him. I mean, I’m not saying he’s gonna be the first baseman long-term and I’m not saying you got to pay him whatever he wants. If I’m Alonso, I’m close enough to where I’m playing this out in free agency and maybe it goes the way that it did with Brandon Nimmo. The Mets should let him go to free agency too, all right. See what you do with free agency, go out there, test the market, come back to us and if it’s the right price, we’ll do it. It’s got to be something around $200 million, similar to what [Atlanta Braves first baseman] Matt Olson got. But Pete Alonso has to be a lifelong Met. I don’t understand how if they lose him, trade, free agency, how you could ever replace that.”

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Which sources say Alonso is unliked by his teammates? Isn't he best friends with McNeil? Nimmo and Lindor may be more valuable from a WAR perspective, (Lindor has 4.3 this year, Nimmo and Alonso tied at 2.6) but no one is more popular with the fans than the Polar Bear.

I heard/thought the same thing about the friendships and feel Alonso is very popular with Fans.

Lindor is valuable (but playing below his contract) but each also has a different role with the team.

Lastly no one considers Nimmo, Lindor, or McNeil the face of the franchise

Everyone considers the Polar Bear

[Snapolit1]

Everything I have read from reporters with real knowledge of the clubhouse say Licata's report is 100% BS.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Everything I have read from reporters with real knowledge of the clubhouse say Licata's report is 100% BS.

I agree. Just because the Mets stink, does not mean they have a poor clubhouse culture. I think the guys get along with and support each other.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I agree. Just because the Mets stink, does not mean they have a poor clubhouse culture. I think the guys get along with and support each other.

+1 Agreed otherwise they hide it really well.

and have not seen or read anything on social media where you would think it would get out

[Kevin]

Why would that guy say that? Ratings? Anyway, I think Puma and Howie Rose put the kibosh on it. I know Howie a bit from his Islander gig. Straight shooter.

[cgjackson222]

Lindor has played well recently. He's on a 13 game hitting streak and is on pace for 30 Home Runs and over 100 RBIs.

He is in the top 10 in both bWAR and fWAR in all of MLB. His OPS+ is 121, which would be tied for the 3rd highest of his career (it was 125 last year), and is higher than he averaged in Cleveland.

And without the shift, his defense has really shined.

I am very glad he is a Met.

[mrreality68]

Lindor is not the problem.

Right now the biggest problem is they are playing vets who will not be here next year and not enough rookies and playing time for rookies to get experience and for us to see what they can do.

Peter Alonso is not the problem(be nice to have higher average) and I hope they do not trade him like I am reading in the news.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Lindor is not the problem.

Right now the biggest problem is they are playing vets who will not be here next year and not enough rookies and playing time for rookies to get experience and for us to see what they can do.

Peter Alonso is not the problem(be nice to have higher average) and I hope they do not trade him like I am reading in the news.

Nice to have Mauricio in the lineup, and getting a double in his first at bat!
Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio at 7-8-9. Good to see the Rookies getting some playing time.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Nice to have Mauricio in the lineup, and getting a double in his first at bat!
Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio at 7-8-9. Good to see the Rookies getting some playing time.

Charles

I totally agree considering the season it is good to see the Rookies.

Should have started it a lot sooner but still good to see.

Also good that they started the shakeup in the front office

[Rad_Hazard]

I finally got to see the Mets win (I was 0-3 in my first 3 Mets games) on Sunday with the Ortega walkoff!

I was at the game before as well, and I will say that Vogelbach is my favorite Met right now. That swing is amazing, 2/3 of a swing at best and he hits BOMBS!

LET'S GO METS!

[Hirbonzig]

Good luck with David Stearns with the Mets. He did a good job with the Brewers. Wonder if he’ll woo Craig Counsell away to manage.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Hirbonzig

Good luck with David Stearns with the Mets. He did a good job with the Brewers. Wonder if he’ll woo Craig Counsell away to manage.

that would be a smart move if they can do it.

Just hope he signs Alonso long term

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

that would be a smart move if they can do it.

Just hope he signs Alonso long term

Jeff, do you have any concerns about how Alonso will age across a longer-term deal? I'm a big fan of the polar bear but his player type/skillset tends to age very poorly after age 30.

[Snapolit1]

My 2 cents: Sign Pete to a 5 year deal - max. If his agent wants 7 or more, I think you need to let him walk.

Then again, what does the money mean to the owner anyway. . . . . .

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Jeff, do you have any concerns about how Alonso will age across a longer-term deal? I'm a big fan of the polar bear but his player type/skillset tends to age very poorly after age 30.

I think all players that sign long term contracts do not age well if they sign contracts 28 years old plus. On the flip side now having the DH in the National League at least helps they can put him their to rest him and long term he can play their and helps keep the mileage off the body
But the market is what it is and these players will get long term top dollar contracts.
He is a career .253 average(this year trainwreck) but as discussed previously he is consistently hitting for power and has put up monster numbers in that time.
IF they want to keep him it will probably be a 7 year contract(I hope only 5) and if they do not pay him someone will those years

[BobbyStrawberry]

I can get on board with five years, although I think 4 would be perfect. The back end of a 7 year contract will not be pretty!

[D. Bergin]

Somebody will offer Alonso a 7-10 year contract, He will take it...and year 5 through 10 (I'm being optimistic here) fans will be upset at the player, for not aging unnaturally, instead of at the owner and the general manager for giving him that contract to begin with.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Somebody will offer Alonso a 7-10 year contract, He will take it...and year 5 through 10 (I'm being optimistic here) fans will be upset at the player, for not aging unnaturally, instead of at the owner and the general manager for giving him that contract to begin with.

agreed the nature of these contracts we may want to give 4 or 5 years and the teams may want to give 4 or 5 years but the market is paying these top end players 7 to 10 year contracts. And almost none of those contracts will the last few years be pretty and those player will most likely be DH's at that point

[BobbyStrawberry]

What are the most recent comps for 7-10 year contracts for first basemen? Even Freddie Freeman's deal in LA isn't that long. (And we all know he's a far better player than Pete)

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What are the most recent comps for 7-10 year contracts for first basemen? Even Freddie Freeman's deal in LA isn't that long. (And we all know he's a far better player than Pete)

Freeman was 32 years old, and he got 6 years.

Alonso will turn 29 in December.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Freeman was 32 years old, and he got 6 years.

Alonso will turn 29 in December.

As I write that, I see that Alonso is not eligible for Free Agency until after next season. I had assumed based on how everybody was talking he was a free agent after this year. He's arbitration eligible next season.

Might be worth the Mets waiting it out and seeing if he regresses next year or not.

Either he has a career year next year, like Judge did in his arbitration season, and his price goes up immensely, or his batting average and strikeout ratio continues to get worse next year and serves as a gauge of how he's going to age into the future.