Board Advice Needed - please and thank you

[jimjim]

First of all, I am not trying to call anyone out but I am just looking for some guidance from board members....

Long story short, I had a member of another board/dealer help me get a ticket stub signed during the MAB HOF Cooperstown show. I included specific instructions on autograph placement, pen request, and size of the autograph by including a photocopy of the ticket with a box drawn where I would like the autograph along with the players name written out to show the size of his autograph that I wanted. I received the ticket back a few days ago and the autograph is much smaller than I wanted. Much much smaller. Upon inquiring, I found out that my contact actually mailed in the items to MAB and did not get them signed in person, which was not what I was expecting. He said he was told that the player saw my picture prior to signing the ticket, but he can't confirm for sure. Whenever I send in specific instructions the item is signed that way, which makes me wonder if my sheet was even shown to the player or his representatives. This player is young and pretty accommodating so not like we are talking about Willie Mays intentionally messing up an item.

I am rather frustrated since the autograph was expensive and the ticket by itself costs around $50-75. I have been offered a refund for the cost of the autograph by my contact (not MAB) but only if I mail back the ticket. I have asked him to contact MAB to get a refund but he refused telling me that he was already told by MAB 'that is how the player signs'. That statement is not really true but not worth arguing that point right now. I am not really sure on the protocol on something like this. If keep the ticket then I would be hoping to break even if I sell it and I could lose money. If I return the ticket then I am automatically out the cost of the ticket, I have to spend the time to locate a new one, plus the contact/dealer could turn around and sell it for a profit since he only paid for the autograph and got the ticket for free. On a final note, I did pay with my credit card but I really don't want to dispute the charge for something like this.

I literally left no stone unturned to make sure the ticket was signed as I wanted and to make sure there were no issues, but they still messed it up. If this was a consignment or golf tournament then I can understand but this was a paid sit down signing for a lot of money.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jimjim

First of all, I am not trying to call anyone out but I am just looking for some guidance from board members....

Long story short, I had a member of another board/dealer help me get a ticket stub signed during the MAB HOF Cooperstown show. I included specific instructions on autograph placement, pen request, and size of the autograph by including a photocopy of the ticket with a box drawn where I would like the autograph along with the players name written out to show the size of his autograph that I wanted. I received the ticket back a few days ago and the autograph is much smaller than I wanted. Much much smaller. Upon inquiring, I found out that my contact actually mailed in the items to MAB and did not get them signed in person, which was not what I was expecting. He said he was told that the player saw my picture prior to signing the ticket, but he can't confirm for sure. Whenever I send in specific instructions the item is signed that way, which makes me wonder if my sheet was even shown to the player or his representatives. This player is young and pretty accommodating so not like we are talking about Willie Mays intentionally messing up an item.

I am rather frustrated since the autograph was expensive and the ticket by itself costs around $50-75. I have been offered a refund for the cost of the autograph by my contact (not MAB) but only if I mail back the ticket. I have asked him to contact MAB to get a refund but he refused telling me that he was already told by MAB 'that is how the player signs'. That statement is not really true but not worth arguing that point right now. I am not really sure on the protocol on something like this. If keep the ticket then I would be hoping to break even if I sell it and I could lose money. If I return the ticket then I am automatically out the cost of the ticket, I have to spend the time to locate a new one, plus the contact/dealer could turn around and sell it for a profit since he only paid for the autograph and got the ticket for free. On a final note, I did pay with my credit card but I really don't want to dispute the charge for something like this.

I literally left no stone unturned to make sure the ticket was signed as I wanted and to make sure there were no issues, but they still messed it up. If this was a consignment or golf tournament then I can understand but this was a paid sit down signing for a lot of money.

Eat it.

I had a similar situation. I once asked a relative to get a Yaz autograph for me with three inscriptions. The piece came back not as I envisioned. I could have been more specific about pen size and placement and the piece still would have come back wrong.

The thing is only the collector really knows what they want the item to look like when all is said and done.

In all my years of collecting autographs, only Lou Brock asked "Do you want my Yogi Berra signature (small) or my regular autograph (large). Granted, most signers will do their best to fit their signature to a piece. Once the signer starts signing the size of the autograph is up to them. If you wrote "write small in this area" and included a picture, well how small is too small? The signee has no idea. Short of getting the item signed in person, you did all you could do. Signing the piece where you wanted, only informs the person as to where to sign. To think that the signee or MAB employee would infer that "Oh the collector wants the autograph to be the same size as the example" is asking a bit much. To match the size of the example is a stretch as well. Try writing your normal signature smaller. One, automatically you start to write slower, two most probably write smaller than needed, especially to squeeze their normal signature in a certain area on a ticket.

I was disappointed. I was out the price of the lithograph. I was out the price of the autograph and inscriptions. I didn't want my relative to feel bad. It was my fault, it was a lot to ask and if Yaz would ever leave the state of MA to do a signing, I would have gone to the signing in person.

[mcgwirecom]

I had a similar situation with Stan Musial at a private signing. I sent in an 8x10 handout from his final game I asked to be signed in silver sharpie in the dark area. Well he signed in silver sharpie in a light area and you can barely see it. I was very specific also. The dealer did give me a credit for the autograph but the damage was done. All I can say is that the only way you will be able to get exactly what you want is to take it yourself. And even then if you don't speak quickly enough some signers will just grab it and start signing. Some guys just want to get done.

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

I had a similar situation with Stan Musial at a private signing. I sent in an 8x10 handout from his final game I asked to be signed in silver sharpie in the dark area. Well he signed in silver sharpie in a light area and you can barely see it. I was very specific also. The dealer did give me a credit for the autograph but the damage was done. All I can say is that the only way you will be able to get exactly what you want is to take it yourself. And even then if you don't speak quickly enough some signers will just grab it and start signing. Some guys just want to get done.

Did you get to keep the item when you got a refund? That is my issue. I am being asked to return the item for a refund. I will be out the cost of the ticket and the dealer will most likely make a profit on the item. Does not seem very fair to me.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Did you get to keep the item when you got a refund? That is my issue. I am being asked to return the item for a refund. I will be out the cost of the ticket and the dealer will most likely make a profit on the item. Does not seem very fair to me.

I did not receive a refund. I just kept the item as is and learned an expensive lesson. Are you unable to live with the item is its current state?

[jimjim]

Here is the ticket:

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Here is the ticket:

Whose autograph is that?

Do any of the contemporary players have legible autographs?

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Here is the ticket:

Biggio 3000 hit ticket? It is not bad, not great either. To begin with, Biggio's signature is pretty bad. It is clear to me that he was trying to cram or center his rather large sloppy signature in the designated area. You have had to have known that Biggio's signature takes up some space (not as much space as Frank Thomas) and is not pretty. I would have just let Biggio go to town on the ticket. It would have ended up looking as good as a piece could get with Biggio's sloppy sig. Have it framed with a nice picture, a couple of cards etc. and call it a day.

If it is of any consolation, it looks better than my Yaz lithograph!

[seablaster]

Given the date and the team, I'd have to assume Craig Biggio and his 3000th hit game.

[mcgwirecom]

It is a bit small. You are the customer and you tried to be specific so you should try and get satisfaction. But in the long run it is his signature and he doesn't sign too much bigger than that after looking at some signed cards. He signs small and sloppy. There are some guys I won't even let sign something because their signatures are terrible.

[frankbmd]

In my career I signed dozens of documents and prescriptions daily. If I were asked to greatly reduce the size my John Hancock to accommodate a gallbladder collector after my 3000th cholecystectomy, I suspect that the authenticity of such a sig would be questioned and that Spence would not comply and issue a LOA. I would then spend my remaining days forever known as the physician who forged his own autograph. Is that a felony?

[Huck]

I think the ticket can end up looking pretty good framed. I would have the ticket framed below an 8 x 10 (centered). On the right and left of the ticket have two autographed cards framed as well.

The cards are relatively cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Topps-T...EAAOSwdzVXpRWd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Tribute...oAAOSwaB5XjWvu

I think that would look pretty cool looking and everyone can see is horrific signature not once but three times!



Yes, you could get a refund, buy another ticket and try and have it signed again. But look at his signature, do you really think Biggio will sign it is exactly how you want it to look?

[jimjim]

The thing is, I didn't ask him to put a small signature on the ticket. I drew a rather large box on a large portion of the ticket and I indicated a pretty big signature. That is what I don't understand.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jimjim

The thing is, I didn't ask him to put a small signature on the ticket. I drew a rather large box on a large portion of the ticket and I indicated a pretty big signature. That is what I don't understand.

I understand that you thought a friend was getting the signature in person, but mail order is a crapshoot.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Did you get to keep the item when you got a refund? That is my issue. I am being asked to return the item for a refund. I will be out the cost of the ticket and the dealer will most likely make a profit on the item. Does not seem very fair to me.

But it is fair that you are given a full refund for the signature and get to keep the signed ticket, which you could then flip for a profit??? If Biggio is less than a $50 signature, I doubt that we would be having this discussion. But Biggio costs a $100 a throw (perhaps a tad higher for mail order) and did not sign the way you wanted. As another poster stated "it is his signature". Get creative with the display to salvage the ticket.

I can't tell you how many times a player has started to sign then stopped, only to start again. The few times when a sharpie or ballpoint pen went dry. I know fellow collectors whose paint pens exploded. Stuff happens. I gave Steve Carlton a piece of paper with the following request "414 HRS". He wrote 415 HRS. I said "no, no, it should be 414." He then wrote -1 under 415 underlined the -1 like a math equation and wrote 414. Followed by a smiley face and "I'm sorry." Was I ticked off? Not at all. I love it.

Biggio strikes me as the type of guy who would take his time with each request. The fact that his signature is almost perfectly centered under the Houston Astros shows that he took his time. Clearly, your instructions were not succinctly conveyed to Biggio.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I actually think it looks fine and is not worth going through the hassle of getting it replaced.

To me the key is that you wrote "I had a member/dealer of another board HELP me" which gives me the impression that this was a favor?

Sorry you are disappointed in the outcome.

Jeff

[earlywynnfan]

I think the ticket looks just fine, and Biggio apparently tried to sign in a great spot so as not to hide any of the writing.

[egri]

What were your exact instructions? The way I see it, putting a box on the ticket and telling Biggio to sign within it could be interpreted as either 1) signature should take up the entire box (sounds like what you intended) or 2) signature should be contained within the box, not necessarily taking up the whole space (how Biggio interpreted it).

Personally, I don't think it looks bad; on the contrary, he signed in the only relatively clear area on the ticket, and did not sign over his team, the seat information, or date.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by biohazard

I gave Steve Carlton a piece of paper with the following request "414 HRS". He wrote 415 HRS. I said "no, no, it should be 414." He then wrote -1 under 415 underlined the -1 like a math equation and wrote 414. Followed by a smiley face and "I'm sorry."

That's Awesome!

[bender07]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I think the ticket looks just fine, and Biggio apparently tried to sign in a great spot so as not to hide any of the writing.

I agree. His signature is terrible but the end product looks great to me.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

That's Awesome!

Thanks. It is awesome. I was dumbfounded that Carlton did what he did since most players would have just wrote a 4 over the 5. Carlton was very apologetic but frankly, I thought it was really cool! It is a goofy, inspirational piece that I started years ago. A Charlie Brown poster (https://www.sportsposterwarehouse.co...eball_htm.html) on which I have certain pitchers sign with the home runs hit off of them for their career or other historic home runs (ex. Downing giving up 715). It is hilarious when the player inquires about the inscription. Whitey Ford said "I would have thought that I gave up more." Most ask who leads the career category (when I started it was Robin Roberts but Jamie Moyer passed him). Jim Kaat and Fergie Jenkins were not amused.