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  #1  
Old 10-21-2007, 05:33 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I just went through the front page and counted a total of 10 threads about actual questions about cards, and they seem to have little response. I find this a disturbing trend, I started a thread about T202's about a month ago and got a total of one response. There is a question about T210's that has 1 response. This is a disturbing trend to me.

This board use to have more substance, where are the OJ discussions? Where are the T202 collectors that use to respond? If it weren't for Ted I wonder where the T206 threads would be. The threads to be more about quantity and not quality. I have resorted to send private emails to the people that use to have knowledgable answers about card questions.

I know the new (within the last 2 years) people seem to think this board is just fine. Go back and look at the early threads and you will find much more substance to the board. Yes, There were OT threads and the such but no where close to the number these days.

I hope there is a way this trend can change and we can get more of the really knowledgeable people back on the board. This is a great place to get an education in vintage cards but to find real information you really have to do some digging.

Just my thoughts,

Lee

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  #2  
Old 10-21-2007, 05:44 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

The board could be evolving and changing a little as new members join the group. But I still think we have many good card discussions, and the memorabilia board has made some great progress. It's a pretty tight group.

There are many card threads that I don't participate in because I don't feel I have anything worthwhile to add. If I do, then I jump in. I think most posters feel the same way.

And while I agree there are perhaps more non-card threads than there used to be, I don't find it disturbing. It's just that the board has changed somewhat. And it's easy to get it back on track when it veers- just start a good thread about cards.

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Old 10-21-2007, 05:56 PM
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Posted By: John S

Lee,

I agree with your assessment; the board has changed. I post less frequently because I find most of the OT posts to be uninteresting. My P2 question was probably one of the posts that you counted. Two board members were kind enough to email me some information but to this point the post has received no responses.

Historically the board has provided information on many topics. It is quite possible that there is little left to discuss.

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:02 PM
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Posted By: leon

I see your point somewhat...but still feel the contributors to the board are vast and diverse and growing. Regardless of how the Unique IP's are counted, who look at the board every day, there are more than there were 2 1/2 years ago, by far....Even in the last several months there has been an increase. This last Sunday there were 1123 Unique IP addresses that hit the front page and over 1300 every other day. Over the last week there has been an average of over 300 posts per day on the main page. The point I agree about is the off topic stuff being a little more than it really should be lately. I don't mind some of it as it lets our "family" of board members get to know each other better, imho. I also agree with what Barry said too. We can always start good card threads if we want and get it back on track a little bit.... As for the T202's thread not getting a good response I am not sure why that happened. I don't think there are quite as many folks that collect them as the more mainstream T cards and the more mainstream E cards so maybe that's the reason. I only collect one set so I certainly can't help with too many set questions...unless they are more obscure ones. I still see a lot of the regular posters posting albeit not as much as some of the newer folks, which is fine too. The other 2 forums (memorabilia and Post War) seem to be drawing more and more attention too, which could detract a little bit from the main board. From my point of view everything is cruising along in an ok fashion. Brian and I are always open for suggestions....regards

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:06 PM
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Posted By: leon

SO if those 2 folks emailed you, about P2's, instead of posting then maybe that is a small part of the issue overall. Folks email privately instead of posting the info on the board...I agree too, that there is only so much to talk about and then we have to get more imaginative. SmileyCentral.com

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  #6  
Old 10-21-2007, 06:08 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

The problem with all the "other" posts is that if you want to find a thread of substance you have to sort through so much just to find it. I just went to go try and find the thread I started about T202s. The lat response was six days ago and 5 pages deep. ( I was mistaken I did get a second response).

Barry is one of the few that has hung on and his knowledge is greatly appreciated as well as others that contribute.

I certainly don't think that any issue has run it's course. If some issues need to be rehashed yearly I don't see the problem there is always new people and they are looking for answers. It never hurts to renew interest and maybe something new will come out of it.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:14 PM
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Posted By: John S

Leon,

It is frustrating as your graphic suggests. I still really enjoy visiting the board and contributing when I can. The football board in the postwar section has also been frustrating. Very little information is exchanged compared to the show-and-tell stuff (which I don't mind).

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  #8  
Old 10-21-2007, 06:18 PM
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Posted By: John S

I agree Lee, I don't mind answering (or reading) questions that have been addressed before. The search function is an excellent resource but should not be the response given to someone's question. That only discourages new posters.

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:22 PM
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Posted By: leon

Don't get me wrong....ANYTHING pertaining to Pre-War baseball cards on here is fine by me and as much as anyone wants to post about it. I don't care if we post about something 50 times if it's on topic....Redundancy to one person is no doubt the first time someone else has seen it.....I do wish more lurkers would chime in and share their knowledge....But if they only want to lurk then so be it....regards

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:34 PM
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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

I am often disappointed by the lack of response to substantive card threads, or even ones pertaining to issues in the hobby. Some of the latter type get hundreds of responses when posters start fighting with one another, but at least as often the topic dies a quick death.

Maybe that's just the way it is with chat boards, but it is a bummer when posts offering or asking for actual card knowledge (as opposed to hobby gossip and personal carping) falls to the bottom with so little response.

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:36 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I think what Lee is trying to point out is that even when he or someone else asks a questions like "can you check your cards and tell me....?" that there is little or no response. T202s are not widely collected, but his question certainly wasn't about a common player or obscure variation, yet there was almost response. I can't imagine that among a supposed 1000+ people that only 2 had this card.

This is the point, even when basic info is asked for and lurkers could obviously answer, no one bothers.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Old 10-21-2007, 06:57 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Am I wrong in the logic given that if the train is off the track you just put it back on and the the train falls off the track and it has to get put back on and the train goes off the track and we have to put it back on. Part of that problem is that the putting back on falls off the tracks more than it's on.

Also what I get from Leon's response is that as long as the hits are up that is all that matters at the expense of why this board is actually here.

Now this is where I get killed for bringing it up, but with the advertisers you can charge more with more hits. At what point Leon are you willing to get the train back on the tracks at the expense of the hits and thus probably less advertising revenue? If it is about maximizing the hits and maximizing the revenue stream, please let us now, then it won't have to be brought up again and again. I personally could care less if that is what you have in mind, but I think we all deserve to know this.

No, I was not aiming at bringing up the advertising but Leon's response I felt warranted it.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:07 PM
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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Hey Lee,

I agree with what you are saying, but hope much of the board's problems could be solved by personal responsibility.

I am the one that posted the T210 question (and except for Frank's response) was basically ignored. I am a newbie and joined early in the year. I really do try hard to post on topic always (I've only started a half dozen or so threads period). I also try to post things because I really want to learn something--not just to post for postings sake. With all the research gone into T206s, I was sure that someone would have something on the 210s distribution. My Zeenut question was better.

Before coming here, I read the boards at PSA, but found them to be useless in general. I hope this board NEVER becomes like those. I know at any given time, I can find a quality thread...just takes a bit longer in these last few months.

I think Leon is a good moderator, but just wish certain people would think harder before they start a thread, and wish the rest of the people would think hard before bothering to reply to a bad thread. I know some of the long-time hobbyists are jaded and probably tired of what they consider the same posts asked and answered, but there are MANY new people like myself that really look forward to some guidance and thoughtful insights.

Shawn

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:09 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Whoa--Jay is back! Good. And now we are talking about advertising again!

In all seriosness Lee, I don't respond because I do not have anything to add. Many people who now contribute I know from CU or LTS. Generally speaking they are collectors and mostly graded card collectors. I think the mix of threads is a direct result of the changing mix of people on the board.

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:21 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Shawn- I would have gladly responded to your T210 thread, or to any other one about vintage cards, but I don't know enough about the set to add anything really meaningful. I don't feel a need to respond to every thread just to be heard, and I in fact more enjoy the threads where a lively discussion about some hobby issue develops. I think we each like certain types of threads more than others (such as this one which entails some editorial comments).

But you put Leon in a tough position. If he chooses to be strict about allowing only card related threads, then if someone posts about Joe Torre or steroids he has to either lock or delete it. And while I shouldn't really speak for him, I don't think he is comfortable going in that direction.

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:28 PM
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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Barry,

Actually, I've always found your responses to be informative and very helpful. (And I love Seinfeld).

I don't mean to put Leon in a spot at all. If you notice in my last post near the top, I stated that it should be solved by "personal responsibility" - meaning for the posters to really think about what they are about to post and to also think before they respond to yet another OT thread. In an ideal world the board would be best by self moderation, but, unfortunately, the discipline seems to be lacking in people.

Best,
Shawn

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:29 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Barry, That is one of my points. The people are either no longer here or chose not to respond that were here in the past. I think responses should be given only if you have something to add to the thread.

Shawn makes an excellent point about the people starting threads need to think more when posting these threads with little substance, and also the people responding.

Maybe there needs to be another off shot of the board for community threads.

One other point about the person mentioning his disappointment that the football thread is a dead issue. I would think that it should almost be expected since it is a vintage baseball cards board.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:33 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I think that part of the problem with the posters policing themselves is that many of them have a broader thought of what the vintage baseball card forum is all about (peter C is a prime example, an extreme maybe). There is a "mission statement" at the top of the page that seem to be forgotten.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:34 PM
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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I think the football card reference was for the post-war football forum

http://www.network54.com/Forum/579393/

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:39 PM
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Posted By: leon

For the millionith time about adveritising. It's here. It's been discussed ad nauseum. I don't mind if you and Jay and a handful of others don't like it. I don't think it's the reason the board is whatever it is.... Jay came into the forum again either as my mistake or another computer, whatever. For the moment it's no big deal. When I talk about the "hits" it's not so much about the advertising as it is about the popularity of the board with respect to the number of people posting. I wish more people would post that visit the board....Regardless of all of that the board is way up in posts, posters, and "hits" and many times great information. I wish more threads were completely on topic but whatever I do some folks will not like. I do exactly what I feel is the right thing to do and that's it, in each circumstance. If anyone likes it great...if they dont'....great...We aren't going to have another whole thread about it.... best regards

edited to add that I do listen to the board all of the time and base my decisions with those things I hear, in mind...but at the end of the day I do have to make a decision on many things and I do the best I can...

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:40 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I thought it was a click link from this board, my bad. The only football card I have is a Walter Payton Rookie because he is my alltime favorite.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:41 PM
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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I've been the moderator of several message boards and have participated in many more, and I've found that message boards, in general, behave cyclically. They're living and breathing things, with personalities that constantly change. New members discover the board, which injects new personalities into the discussions. Established members become disillusioned as the personality of the board changes with the new members. Subject matter discussions fall into occasional lulls which frustrates established members looking for stimulating discussion. People get pissed about off-topic threads. Established members get frustrated with two or three posters who seem to irritate the entire community.

None of these things are specific to this board. They happen all over the internet.

The key to restoring the sort of community that attracted a person to a board in the first place doesn't involve complaining about it, quitting, or calling for the moderator's head; the key is to dive back in and take some ownership over the problem by starting worthwhile threads, participating in others, and understanding that today's newbie is tomorrow's long-timer. Rather than get irritated with the direction of a board and give up, it's more effective to keep contributing - everything you like about a board will eventually come back, if the people who seem to care so much about it continue to move the board in the right direction.

-Al

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:47 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Like I said Leon I could give a rat's arse about what you are doing with the advertising (just a point I believe you think that the money that comes in from it is insignificant but it is more or close to what some of us make in a year) and I will leave it at that. But I see you doing nothing to bring the train back on the tracks and following the "mission statement" that is at the top of the board. It is sad that the board has gone this direction, I am just glad I have the emails of many of the old board members that no longer post.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:50 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Well said Al. Now if the train will get back on the tracks.

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Old 10-21-2007, 07:51 PM
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Posted By: leon

You are certainly entitled to you opinion....take care

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:02 PM
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Posted By: Al Simeone

Good evening gentlemen,
Hello Lee,
Being a newer poster here I think this board needs to allow some change in order for it to continue and evolve. I do realize this part of the board focuses more on pre war cards but as an observer how many times can you talk about one set of cards before it becomes a bit redundant. Take a post like show us your t202s. If you probably go way back and look it will be the same cards by the same posters time after time when asked for. I like Barry (hello Barry) like to discuss other topics such as the one we just had on the Bidding Stragedy post. I got to learn alot about him and Im sure he learned alot about me.While I do agree some of the posts go way off track at points most are a healthy way of learning about some of the veteran posters and thier vast collections and knowledge.
By the way Lee you do know me I am pretty sure you bought a t202 (noticed how I picked t202s) To Late For Devlin As A (giant) in poor to fair condition from me years ago! Just wanted to jog your memory! The train always seems to be put back on the track most of the time but sometimes its good to open her up !!

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:03 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

I think the board adheres to the mission statement perfectly.

And I think Leon ought to make more money.

And I think Al is right on the money.

I want Net54 to be more about graded cards in the future--so I will start more threads about grading and pops etc--I won't complain that there are not enough about them.

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:11 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Al said what I was thinking but said it better than I could have. I've been posting regularly on the board now for two or three years and I've seen a lot of people come and go. And as such, new personalities carry on with posting. And everybody has individual likes and dislikes. Some people love the "show me your Nap Lajoie" cards or something like that. Personally, I find them boring and often don't even open them.

And so what. I participate in threads that interest me. Some are directly related to vintage cards, and some are discussions of important hobby issues. I do agree with Lee, Tim, Shawn, and others that there are too many off topic posts, and that lies solely in the hands of the person who starts them. But can I still feel free to respond? I know the Joe Torre thread was off topic but I've followed the Yankees all year, so can't I offer an opinion or two?

I think this is the current state of the forum: threads about baseball cards mixed in with threads about other general baseball topics. And yes, of course Seinfeld and rock music find their way in too. Hey, in the end we're just a bunch of friends who like to chat. So we jump the tracks once in a while, that's life.

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:18 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Al, I know your name rang a bell, but I have bought so many cards, not alot of T202 Matty/Devlin's though. The thread I started about T202s was to gain some research knowledge and not a show and tell thread. I am not a contributor in the Show and Tell threads but it seems really popular and I can see the correlation.

I just don't see this evolution is good if you are losing a majority of your knowledge base, that is my opinion and concern about what has happened to this board. I think what is lost is going to be very tough to reobtain what has been lost.

Sorry for being so concerned but I feel there is a serious lack of knowledge base compared to the first couple of years.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:37 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

I started a thread about the origins of T206 that I thought was actually pretty interesting -- and got ZERO responses.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1191766683/

I feel as if the knowledge base is either gone or not participating. The newbies are not chiming in with theories or ideas. The only posts I learn from lately are Ted Z's.

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

No further examples are necessary.

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Old 10-21-2007, 08:43 PM
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Posted By: Al Simeone

Hi Lee,
While I understand your concern I myself dont think the knowledge base really has gone down . What I have seen when the knowledge on a perticular subject is needed the veteran posters( now most probably lurkers) but are still out there respone with some great answers because they now see a subject post they can be helpful with, and become posters and thread helpers once again. You have to keep in context that not everyone is lets say for sake of arguement in there 60s and 70s. You have alot of younger people trying to learn about the hobby but in the same token love to talk about some of the more intresting "subjects" that evolve very quickly I.E. Joe Torre leaving. Maybe thats the post they are able to handle and get there feet wet so to speak. but as a veteran dont jump down thier throat and say hay that not suppose to be posted here! You are a purist and as such its hard for you to let go of the "pure" baseball talk CARDS. Expand a little Lee its more healthy for you. Your knowledge is vast and needed on many card subjects but AS AN OBSERVER most everyone knows your stance on advertisers time to put it to rest and try and enjoy this forum!

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:16 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I want to get one thing clear on this advertising thread. I do not believe I have ever voiced that I do not like the fact there is advertising, even in this thread. It is my brother Jay who has beaten it silly, not me. I can see where there is a possible conflict of interest and the response by Leon falls into that category, As stated in an earlier response.

As far as lightening up If you read posts from the first couple of years it was not a problem. Jay and I were the ones that started the NCAA final Four contest for Net54 that Nick Martinez donated the first prize. My choice about a year ago was to not respond to threads that had nothing to do with cards in hopes of keeping the board more in focus. As I have stated I feel that the board has lost it's main focus and valuable members.

By the way to me the Joe Torre thread does not belong here and should have been deleted, it adds absolutely nothing to the context of the "vintage forum". Why not discuss the Rockies current winning streak, why not talk about will ARod leave the Yanks, why not talk about whether Johan Santana should get traded before he is a free agent? Alot of things can be discussed but this should not be the forum to do it.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:17 PM
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Posted By: Joann

I agree that the focus seems to be meandering. I will honestly admit that I don't know if this is natural evolution of all such boards, or if there are genuine forces in play affecting this board.

I know that way back to the Fullcount days it seemed like there were true hobby heavyweights that rang in regularly, and the board was a great resource. (Although, let's not forget that the flame war threads on that board could put this one to shame - that's always been there too.)

There are still heavyweights that ring in here - some routinely and some much less so. But if you look at the overall mix of topics and posters, the gravity of the board has decreased.

I count myself as part of the problem. I am newer to posting regularly - only maybe two years - and while I am passionate about the hobby I simply do not have the knowledge to add that some do. Someday I will. Today I don't. So I contribute to threads about general hobby issues and direction, but not so much the genuinely informative posts. There are many others like me who are newer and less experienced, and as a result the entire mix of contributors and nature of contribution is changing.

What's the answer? Who knows? But there are some things that might help.

First, absolutely with everyone upthread that says to give answers to questions even if it's the millionth time it's been asked. Don't refer to search functions and don't not answer. When I started lurking at Fullcount years ago, the ways for spotting reprints and trimming were already well-known. Thankfully, people would post this common knowledge there in response to questions. Otherwise I would never have picked it up.

Second, agree with whoever said to consider these issues before you respond to a vacuous thread started by someone that does so more regularly. Yes there are two OT's now on steroids and the Yankee's manager. But both were started by (and believe me, in one case it really does kill me to say this but fair is fair) regular contributors who never, ever start OT threads. To me, respond away in those cases. But to contribute to general dilution of topics by responding to peripheral threads by frequent starters of such threads only encourages it.

Vintage cards first, hobby issues second, and peripheral topics about vintage baseball in general, or players from that era, etc. last.

And goodbye to the board if we ever become a place where the topic is a mix of vintage baseball cards and general baseball topics. There will be no reason at all for the truly experienced contributors, which are the lifeblood of this forum, to stick around.

Joann

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:22 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Paul, that is amazing that thread had no response until I just did. There is nothing difficult about the thread, just basically asking opinions on your observation and there were none. That is a very good example of my whole thought to starting the thread. I would be curious as to how many pages back it was buried after 13 days. Mine thread was 6 days old and 5 pages back.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:27 PM
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Posted By: anthony

compared to most of you guys (& gals) i know crap about the card makers or reasons why cards were made or why some players were not included in certain sets. i have learned so much from everyone its almost embarassing, i thought i knew baseball and it's cards until i was introduced to this site...to this i thank everyone.

that said, what can we do to get back on track? well, as a suggestion what if we or someone (not everyone) pick a particular set or card weekly and we discuss it to its end. not just by adding links but personal knowledge and photos and whatever else it takes.

here are a few suggestions of sets that i would like to learn more about...

1. 1895 mayo plugs
2. t204 ramly
3. boston garter cards

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:31 PM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Anthony likes seeing guys in underwear & garters.

Great suggestions I think that would be a good start.

Lee

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:33 PM
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Posted By: Al Simeone

Sorry Lee Thats Right it was Jay more than yourself.
I do understand what you are saying that this "part" of the forum is devoted to pre war card talk but as you can start to see yourself alot of the old posters are gone. Then my question to you is lets say if this part of the forum went back to the way it was do you really think all the old posters would come back? In my opinion I dont think so. I think it has evolved and because it has done so maybe changes do need to be made. But I think it will play out in time but for now weather it be good or bad this is what it is for now and adjustments need to be made in order for this forum to stagnate or flourish.

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Old 10-21-2007, 09:47 PM
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Posted By: anthony

lee, that was suppose to be a secret...

edited to add scan

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Old 10-21-2007, 10:23 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

...but I don't come here to read the dirt on Torre or ARod. If you want to talk current baseball, I agree, it should be done someplace else.

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Old 10-21-2007, 10:46 PM
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Posted By: Bob

I was one of the two guys who emailed John about the P2 question because when I posted a thread about the P2s and asked some questions you could hear the crickets chirping.
I agree with Lee, all we seem to get lately is hedge fund posts where the original poster posts and then hides and never returns to the thread or threads about current baseball and not cards. I am not hypocritical enough to say I never post OT threads because I do but I also try to get discussions going on Sporting Life cards (crickets), Close Candy and Anonymous cards (crickets) and the finding of a previously unknown (to me) T212 back (crickets).
I do think if you check the recent threads you'll find things have gotten somewhat better though...

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Old 10-21-2007, 11:52 PM
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Posted By: Alan

Lee -

Good question. The short version is that every topic dealing with vintage cards and related topics has already been discussed time & time again. In other words, every card set, manufacture, series, issue, rarity, number, etc,... has been discussed in excruating detail. The same with grading, auction houses, ebay, shows, etc,... Also, nothing is changing that quickly in the hobby/industry that there needs to be any long discussion about. Most of the questions members post (my self included) can probably be found in the archives of this forum. The forum is like celebrity TV shows (Access Hollywood, Entertainment tonight, etc,...) - you're curious to know who's doing what to whom



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Old 10-22-2007, 12:02 AM
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Posted By: JakeB

I'm a huge modern baseball fan... October 20 2007, 11:23 PM


...but I don't come here to read the dirt on Torre or ARod. If you want to talk current baseball, I agree, it should be done someplace else.
================================================== ===========================

Agree 100% with this statement. However, I made a similar point in the Torre thread the other day and low and behold, I am told that the originator of the thread has posted for a long time on here now and talked about pre war baseball cards. Well, I've now seen a few O/T threads from that poster and he never shows back up to respond at all. However, since he's been here awhile, it's apparently alright to do as you please.

I remember started a couple of threads in the past relating specifically to pre war cards. I may as well have attached cinder blocks to the threads they dropped so fast. I will say though that I did get one response.
"This topic has been discussed before. Use the search function."

Yeah, well, that's great and all, but if some of you want the lurkers to come to light and post as well as some new people, maybe the topic can be discussed again for those that are new to it. Maybe something new was discovered with that particular set. God knows the debate of bidding practices has had multiple threads. Maybe if people were a little more helpful and friendly, the lurkers would come out and new people would be more likely to hang around.

So what if some of the old people don't come back. Nobody is going to be here forever. Ever hear of out with the old and in with the new?

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Old 10-22-2007, 12:15 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Alan, I hope your post is in jest. It may seem like everything has been hashed out a million times, but that just simply isn't true. All you have to do is look at the thread my brother started, or the thread started by tbob. The started threads about something that hasn't been seen or discussed before, yet almost no one responded.

Jake, be careful what you wish for. If all the old timers leave, you won't be left with much of a knowledge base given what I've seen from the new comers.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Old 10-22-2007, 12:30 AM
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Posted By: JakeB

I hardly believe that the old timers that have left this board are the only ones out there with great knowledge. I've met a couple of people myself who are simply lurkers on the board. They have great knowledge to go along with great collections. But guess what, they lurk because of the way they get treated on here by the "old timers".

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Old 10-22-2007, 01:28 AM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Jake,

I do not think anyone has been attacked here for giving their knowledge of a set. It is your thinking that will send this board to just a chat room with little real knowledge. Go back to the early threads and read them if you have not already. There is more substance in the first year then there has been in the last 3. Heck if it wasn't for Scot Reader and Ted Z. the substance would really be minimum.

Many of you think the "old timers" are the ones driving people away, to me it is all the new off topic non card topics that have driven them away. Heck, I always remember when Andy Baran would leave the chat room because the discussion turned to T206 and away from the subjects he liked, caramels, E107s and obscure issues. When was the last time we heard from him? What of Art M.(T206), we lost Pete Calderon to Mastro, many probably don't know he probably has the best knowledge and great site on caramel cards, what of Wike Wentz, some didn't like him but a great amount of knowledge, I know Jay Miller reads but does not post anywhere close to as much as he use to, great OJ knowledge. Even our post moderators post very rarely and they have great knowledge. I don't think the newbies realize who much more they could learn if some of this people would post again. I am sure they all have there reasons. To me I miss them all and many I have not mentioned.

This is what is missing from the board now, I strongly encourage anyone that has not and has the time to read earlier threads, you will find there is alot more substance than most of the posts today.

As far as everything being said and known far from it. Ted Z. started what is believed to be the best thread ever on the board about a year ago that has help to understand the T206 set better. So we need the inquiring minds, but if we don't have the people with the back ground it sure doesn't do much good.

Lee

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Old 10-22-2007, 03:52 AM
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Posted By: JakeBushi

Maybe you don't get what I'm saying. I don't think ANY O/T threads belong on the board. If someone wants to discuss those topics, the internet is littered with message boards for them. However, since many people on here are sick of the O/T threads, then maybe they should just not be allowed. And that goes for EVERYBODY. I fail to see the logic in letting one person do it simply because they have posted here for awhile about baseball cards, and somebody else not doing it because they are new to the board. If the O/T threads are what's driving all the "knowledgeable" people away, I don't think they care who is posting them.

As far as driving the "knowledgeable" people away, well, how many of the people actually said they don't post here anymore because of O/T threads? What exactly are the reasons they left? Instead of living in the past and hoping these people come back, why not the people here who have knowledge step up and take on the role. Some of these people are on here enough, it shouldn't be a problem. But in the end, these same people who could step up and actually discuss the card topics, choose to become embattled in childish arguments. And what are they arguing about? They are arguing about how those people drive the knowledgeable people away. Imagine that.

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Old 10-22-2007, 04:37 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

What are you talking about with this comment of yours....?
"But guess what, they lurk because of the way they get treated on here by the "old timers".

I for one, am the oldest on this Forum and there are quite a few "OLD TIMERS" here; and, I don't see any of us "scaring" others away.
Quite the contrary is true, we welcome and encourage thought-provoking, worthwhile discussions on all aspects of vintage cards. Most
of us veteran collectors are interested in the history, the "nitty-gritty", and subtleties of our BB cards....and not what the latest POP
report numbers are, or the number on a plastic slab, or debating whether a card is trimmed, or concerned if a "hedge fund" is going to
take over our hobby ? ?

I don't know where you are coming from.....but, you better explain this accusation of yours ?

TED Z

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Old 10-22-2007, 05:12 AM
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Posted By: John S

I enjoy learning about the history of the game and its players and the production/distribution of the cards. There is still much to be discovered. The recent minor league HOF thread is a perfect example. Although the thread was somewhat hijacked new (at least to me) information regarding the Colgan's set was discussed.

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Old 10-22-2007, 05:21 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

I am a veteran collector and I know lots of veteran collectors. We are very interested in card pops, whether card is trimmed and the post on hedge funds was fascinating. In vast these types of threads are the most popular on Net 54. Look it up.

What is scary is that certain old timers think their way to collect is the only way.

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