POLL: IN or OUT: YES or NO

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Using amphetamines without a prescription became a federal crime in about 1970. Do you think the pile of greenies in the clubhouse until baseball banned them in 2006 (I think that's the right date) was all by prescription? So we're cool with players who committed a federal crime repeatedly, but not with players who used HGH?

Are you saying Mantle, Mays and Aaron were using greenies in the twilight of their careers post-1970? Mantle had already retired. Mays and Aaron were on their last legs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Are you saying Mantle, Mays and Aaron were using greenies in the twilight of their careers post-1970? Mantle had already retired. Mays and Aaron were on their last legs.

You're missing the point, but in any case Aaron was very productive in the early 70s, unless you want to sneer at seasons of 47 and 40 HR and two others in the 30s. The larger point is that according to many sources, greenie use in baseball was rampant, and it's a very safe assumption that many of our heroes used them, even after they became illegal from a federal law perspective.

[packs]

Why is it safe to assume that? If Mantle used them, he used them before he wasn't allowed to. If Aaron and Mays used them, what do you point to in support of them using greenies at the end of their careers?

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're missing the point, but in any case Aaron was very productive in the early 70s, unless you want to sneer at seasons of 47 and 40 HR and two others in the 30s. The larger point is that according to many sources, greenie use in baseball was rampant, and it's a very safe assumption that many of our heroes used them, even after they became illegal from a federal law perspective.

no evidence that greenies improved statistics. But there is a ton of evidence that roids and HGH improved stats. No players had their best seasons after 35 until the roid era ad then suddenly 30 players did.

[buymycards]

It isn't so much the fact that they were using steroids, but what bothers me more is that they continued to lie about it and never admitted to what they were doing. If they had just told the truth I would be more inclined to give them a yes vote.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by buymycards

It isn't so much the fact that they were using steroids, but what bothers me more is that they continued to lie about it and never admitted to what they were doing. If they had just told the truth I would be more inclined to give them a yes vote.

That's their way of telling you the rules don't apply to them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

no evidence that greenies improved statistics. But there is a ton of evidence that roids and HGH improved stats. No players had their best seasons after 35 until the roid era ad then suddenly 30 players did.

Aaron 1971 at age 37 had his highest marks for HR, OBP, SLG, OPS and OPS+.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Aaron 1971 at age 37 had his highest marks for HR, OBP, SLG, OPS and OPS+.

For this particular instance, I really believe you can believe in the MAN more than the STATS.

Isn't that refreshing?


.

[RichardSimon]

No and No.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Aaron 1971 at age 37 had his highest marks for HR, OBP, SLG, OPS and OPS+.

one year is not an argument.

Lots of players have an outlying big year later in their careers and Hank had a pair of flukey high ISO years, (surrounded by years that were normal, so that seems unlikely that he only did greenies every other year?)

Plus using only one player is also fallacious. Bonds, Mac, Sosa, Palmeiro ...etc all posted long runs of their best numbers wayy late, they had double peaks.

Since baseball mandated testing did you know thee is no longer a peak at 28 like before? Now , on average so of course individuals may differ, players are peaking right away and declining by 28.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I was only responding to this:

No players had their best seasons after 35 until the roid era

I wasn't making a point about the effect of greenies.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I was only responding to this:

No players had their best seasons after 35 until the roid era

I wasn't making a point about the effect of greenies.

No players had sustained success at or above their peak years after ages 32 like the roids guys did. Is that pedantic enough for you?