T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[ullmandds]

Very cool Ted...It's awesome to see so many of your t's in a bunch! This is the best I can do for now...a few odd remaining t's!

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



350/460 series subjects

Now, continuing our study of the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series.....although 22 T-brands were illustrated in the previous post, not all the 63 subjects were printed
with the rare AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, BROAD LEAF 460, Red HINDU, and UZIT backs.
A theory was first presented in a thread posted April 2010 which hypothesized that the AB 460 and UZIT cards were printed as pairs. Also, BL 460 and red HINDU cards
were printed as pairs. Furthermore, these two sets of pairs are mutually exclusive. Refer to.... 350/460 mutually-exclusive cards ....post #14.

I've constructed the following scans of the 350/460 series subjects in order to illustrate how the mutually-exclusive 460-type (rare) backs in this series resulted from
American Lithographic separating these 63 subjects into two print groups.



Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911).

. . .
Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C.


Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT


Group A

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Group B




Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911).

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Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460



Refer to post #5 in this thread which displays a T206 collection of 33 different "scrap subjects" coinciding with the cards of Group A shown above......
....why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive



Stay tuned for the next Reference or Reflections. New topic....I'll surprise you ?


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Very cool Ted...It's awesome to see so many of your t's in a bunch! This is the best I can do for now...a few odd remaining t's!

Hey Pete

Thanks for the "awesome"....it's one of my favorite adjectives.

Judging from your scan, we both collect similar pieces of colorful cardboard (besides BB cards).

Take care......hope to see you at the National this summer.


TED Z
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[sreader3]

Good stuff Ted. Here's a snippet from one of my favorite T206 discovery threads. It was a 2008 thread--started by you--where what I call the "southern league paradox" was resolved collectively by the Net54 research community. Jamie Hull was a major contributor.

Scot

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...ern+Leaguers+-

I'll link a few more of my favorite T206 discovery threads later.

[sreader3]

Ted,

Here is another gem where the 350/460 back profile was fleshed-out.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=220948&page=4

I think this thread is groundbreaking in describing the back profile for each and every subject in the 350/460 RP group, the superprint group and the 460-only group.

Scot

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Good stuff Ted. Here's a snippet from one of my favorite T206 discovery threads. It was a 2008 thread--started by you--where what I call the "southern league paradox" was resolved collectively by the Net54 research community. Jamie Hull was a major contributor.

Scot

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...ern+Leaguers+-

I'll link a few more of my favorite T206 discovery threads later.

Hi Scot

That thread was very informative. Thanks for referencing it.

And, I do miss Jamie Hull, he would chime in with some very meaningful info regarding T206's.


TED Z
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[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

I would be remiss if I failed to mention my "Possible Heitman Errors" thread from February 2005 where I was taken to task by the late Joe P. for daring to question "The Monster" checklist, which at the time was regarded as gospel by some.

[I think this was the first public "outing" of Ames (Hands at Chest) and Doyle (Throwing) as potential 150-onlys and Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves), Latham, Overall (Hands at Waist), Schaefer (Washington) and Tannehill (No "L") as potential 460-onlys--hard to believe that this has only been public information for 12 years since it is is now so commonly accepted].

http://t.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=76172

Have to chuckle now about Joe P.'s blowback. I'll always be grateful to the Net54 guys who came to my defense (including Brian Weisner, Joshua Levine, Rhett Yeakley and the late, great Jim Blumenthal) even though I was a newbie. And even Joe P. eventually came around.

Scot

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Also have to cite the Net54 "Elite" surveys you spearheaded in 2007-2008 confirming that certain 150/350 guys were only available in the 350 series with the Piedmont 350 back. Those were classic.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...amp%3B++SURVEY

Scot

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,

I would be remiss if I failed to mention my "Possible Heitman Errors" thread from February 2005 where I was taken to task by the late Joe P. for daring to question "The Monster" checklist, which at the time was regarded as gospel by some.

[I think this was the first public "outing" of Ames (Hands at Chest) and Doyle (Throwing) as potential 150-onlys and Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves), Latham, Overall (Hands at Waist), Schaefer (Washington) and Tannehill (No "L") as potential 460-onlys--hard to believe that this has only been public information for 12 years since it is is now so commonly accepted].

http://t.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=76172

Have to chuckle now about Joe P.'s blowback. I'll always be grateful to the Net54 guys who came to my defense (including Brian Weisner, Joshua Levine, Rhett Yeakley and the late, great Jim Blumenthal) even though I was a newbie. And even Joe P. eventually came around.

Scot

The new members of the board need to read this thread from 12 years ago to get an insight of how this monster we call the T206 came about. Bill adds two posts one below and one that he receives packages with 2000 T206's at a time. Truly a hobby legend.

Posted By: William Heitman
This is Bill Heitman. Most, if not all, of the errors referred to were caught within about a year of publication of The Monster. They were all errors made by the publisher that I didn't catch in proofing the book. He also added the Farrah pictures without my knowledge. But, Denny was a great friend, and I let that slide. My original working checklist does not have these "errors". I notified everyone via articles in Trader Speaks of the publishing errors. Incidently, I have probably had in excess of 1,000,000 T206s in my possession. My collection was able to fill about 4800 spots on my working checklist. Also--thanks for the compliments.

Bill

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

The new members of the board need to read this thread from 12 years ago to get an insight of how this monster we call the T206 came about. Bill adds two posts one below and one that he receives packages with 2000 T206's at a time. Truly a hobby legend.

Posted By: William Heitman
This is Bill Heitman. Most, if not all, of the errors referred to were caught within about a year of publication of The Monster. They were all errors made by the publisher that I didn't catch in proofing the book. He also added the Farrah pictures without my knowledge. But, Denny was a great friend, and I let that slide. My original working checklist does not have these "errors". I notified everyone via articles in Trader Speaks of the publishing errors. Incidently, I have probably had in excess of 1,000,000 T206s in my possession. My collection was able to fill about 4800 spots on my working checklist. Also--thanks for the compliments.

Bill

. .


This pamphlet size book by Bill Heitman started it all for many of us BB card collectors in the early 1980's. T206 cards were "hot" at the famous Willow Grove Show
in Pennsylvania in 1981. It is where and when I became "addicted" to collecting these gems. A T206 Vg-Ex common sold for only $2. And, a green or red Cobb sold
for only $15 - $20, each. Furthermore, if you were lucky to find a dealer at the Show selling a DRUM....you could get it for a mere $100.

Incidentally,
Dennis Eckes was the publisher of Jim Beckett's BB Card Price Guide (1st edition, 1979). Dennis published Bill Heitman's 32-page book "T206 The Monster" in 1980.

Dennis was fascinated with Farrah Fawcett. So what guy wasn't when she appeared on the scene in the late 1970's. Dennis included 6 poses of Farrah in Bill's book.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





T206 Plank has been a mystery for 108 years. In Dec 2006, after a lot of research, my "wild imagination" formed a theory for this card's scarcity..... T206 Plank theory

It was a popular thread with 113 responses; and, it is somewhat intricate. But I think you'll find it quite interesting.


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I waited a long time to acquire this Plank, simply because I wanted one whose back was a SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30.....in order to
complete my all--Sweet Cap, Factory #30 set. The majority of the Plank cards have Sweet Cap 350 backs.


OK, Plank's card is really no mystery in my mind anymore, since I read Connie Mack's response to a Philadelphia sports writer circa 1910.....
"The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, smokes,
chews tobacco, nor swears...." **

Eddie Plank most likely informed ATC that he did not want his image portrayed on Tobacco cards. Being the low-keyed guy that he was,
he didn't "hype" it up like Wagner did. Let's hear your thoughts on this subject ?

**
"Connie Mack", by Norman Macht


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Hi Scot

One of Joe's early squabbles with me was over the Schulte card. It wasn't that I questioned whether he had this card,
I simply told him it was either a "scrap", or an anomaly.

Also, I noted that if an EPDG card of Schulte were to appear, then I would be convinced that it was a legitimate issue.

Well, we have yet to see an EPDG card.


TED Z
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[sreader3]

It's hard to say whether the card is scrap. Looking at the card it is difficult to tell. And there are other unique front/back combos in T206. Heck, there are only two or three confirmed copies of Spencer with Piedmont 350 (although I recognize he exists with EPDG). I remain agnostic on Schulte 350's "scrapness."

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





In 2008, a thread regarding an interesting 350-only series design that I refer to as the "A-B-C-D connection"...... T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Here are the 4 new Tobacco brands introduced during the printing of the 350-only Series....circa Spring / Summer 1910. The American Lithographic Co. artist designed
the backs of the AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM having identical stylized FRAME and lettering. American Litho printed 190 subjects (listed here) to
fill out the 350-only series (as confirmed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 and CYCLE 350 cards). Currently, the scarcer BROAD LEAF 350 and DRUM cards fall short of
this 190 intended design by 13 subjects, and 65 subjects, respectively. More new BROAD LEAF 350 and DRUM cards have surfaced in recent years, and will continue to
be discovered in the future.





The 190 subjects included in this series of these four T-brands

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Anderson
Arellanes
Armbruster
Arndt
Atz
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain

Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carr
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chappelle
Charles
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Clancy
Clark
Clymer

Cobb (portrait-red)
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Egan

Engle
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Fletcher
Freeman
Fromme
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)

Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)

Kroh
Kruger
Laporte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Malarkey
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mathewson (dark cap)
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
Mc Elveen
McGann
McGinley

McGinnity
McGlynn
McIntyre (Detroit)
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Milligan
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Providence)
Moriarty
Mullin (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes
Oberlin

O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelan
Phelps
Phillippe
Pickering
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm

Schlafly
Schmidt (portrait)
Schreck
Scott
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens
Strang
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielmann

Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman


Here's my Frank Delehanty A-B-C-D connection......these are tough sub-sets to complete......so, let's see yours ?







Stay tuned....the next post here will expand on this sub-set.


TED Z
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