Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

1

[Bpm0014]

Wow, that's pretty bad! It looks torn. He won't give a refund?? Are you sure? That would be a first. Sellers are usually pretty easy to deal with here!

[timzcardz]

0 here.

[jb217676]

Why did the photo get removed?

[brianp-beme]

Thanks for the heads up. I will never deal with that bad, bad '1' again.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Thanks for the heads up. I will never deal with that bad, bad '1' again.

Brian

1 is bad but you really have to watch out for 2.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

1 is bad but you really have to watch out for 2.

Thats especially true when dealing with little kids..

[vintagesportscollector]

There are three types of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't.

[nsaddict]

I assume the OP edited as he got a refund? Hopefully, anyone with a bad experience would try working it out first before starting a thread about it?

[HRBAKER]

Just more sand through the hourglass.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

I assume the OP edited as he got a refund? Hopefully, anyone with a bad experience would try working it out first before starting a thread about it?

No refund. Bad experience. Gave the seller multiple chances to answer still hasn't. I just deleted cause I didn't want to start drama. Long story short, was sold a card as VG. Spent 250. Card has a nasty crease definitely not VG. Seller said no refund and to get my money out of the card from someone else.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

I assume the OP edited as he got a refund? Hopefully, anyone with a bad experience would try working it out first before starting a thread about it?

I agree, for the most part, but it doesn't help the community when a shady dealing is silenced by a refund.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I agree, for the most part, but it doesn't help the community when a shady dealing is silenced by a refund.

I don't want to attack people but if enough people want me to I will, to help the community avoid this seller.

[Mountaineer1999]

This is becoming increasingly annoying

[Paul S]

Stephen, probably a question that answers itself, but I guess you didn't ask for a scan first(?)

[ngnichols]

I REALLY don't like buying a card raw unless I can inspect it in-person. There are just too many characteristics that just don't translate well over a cell-phone picture or sometimes even a scan. That's why I like to buy/sell graded so the amount of ambiguity is mostly negated. That's not to say there can't be an issue buying a graded card, but it really lowers the chances down.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

No refund. Bad experience. Gave the seller multiple chances to answer still hasn't. I just deleted cause I didn't want to start drama. Long story short, was sold a card as VG. Spent 250. Card has a nasty crease definitely not VG. Seller said no refund and to get my money out of the card from someone else.

Did you see the card before you bought it? was the crease disclosed? A VG 3 can have a visible crease, but I don't know how bad this one is.

[RedsFan1941]

Really a shame when good people always seem to find themselves in the middle of drama after drama.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I don't want to attack people but if enough people want me to I will, to help the community avoid this seller.

Personally, I think anyone on this board that values their reputation should be willing to give a refund if the purchaser is not happy. That said, the original listing pictures from the seller were in my opinion pretty crappy (not the one you posted), but he did describe the major issue. However, his description was, in my opinion, very generously. So did you ask for better pictures before purchasing? Either way, I think it is only appropriate that the seller issue a refund, and given what I've seen, would not hesitate to warn others of the seller.

DJ

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I don't want to attack people but if enough people want me to I will, to help the community avoid this seller.

Ok so it was a cell phone pic. I was honest with him from the get go and said I would pay 200 because I wanted to sell it and make a few bucks on it. He said he couldn't but he'd do 275 heck even 250. He said there were a few "light creases". He then told me all he deals with is raw and he's very accurate at grading. I said ok to 250. Thinking I could make 50-75 on it. (Couldn't tell how bad the crease was from pics) upon arrival this card is a good at best. Terrible crease. I politely asked for a refund and he said no refunds. I can get my money out of the card from someone else.

[KingFisk]

Would like to know who seller is but would also like to understand what happened. Can we see scans again? I may have missed everything from initial post.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I just don't think it's right to be denied a refund is all. He lied and stole from me in essence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Name names. Otherwise this is a waste of everyone's time.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Name names. Otherwise this is a waste of everyone's time.

Ok when I get home from dinner I'll post photos and the message I got. Just didn't want this to turn into a huge deal which is why I deleted it originally. I want to just keep trading like always and thought this may hurt me by coming off nasty calling someone out, however if you guys feel I should tell then I promise I will to protect potential buyers.

[vintagesportscollector]

I agree a refund should be given, but if you are making a decision based on a crappy scan, without asking for a better one, and trusting the grading opinion of the seller, then you need to own some of this too. Live and learn and move on. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

Wouldn’t mind seeing the card and the original scan, so we know all the facts (how bad or light a crease is can be subjective), but maybe BEST to just close this one out and move on…we have enough Kangaroo Courts on this forum already.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think requests for refunds should be timely, but if one is made, generally it should be honored.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I defend you when I think it's appropriate Stephen, but what was the point of this thread other than attention UNLESS you post a name. It doesn't serve as a caveat unless we know who we're dealing (or not dealing) with.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think requests for refunds should be timely, but if one is made, generally it should be honored.

I literally pmed him the moment I opened it up. Yes I guess I could have asked for better photos, I just am the type of person to trust until getting burned. Now I got burned. How someone can take something that is not theirs is beyond me. How could you not issue a refund? I do not want the card he knows it and doesn't care. That's bad business. Very bad business.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I defend you when I think it's appropriate Stephen, but what was the point of this thread other than attention UNLESS you post a name. It doesn't serve as a caveat unless we know who we're dealing (or not dealing) with.

I know you do. I will post everything the moment I'm home. Promise.

[KingFisk]

And in a thread like this it's always good to hear from seller to get both sides. Caveat emptor is plainly stated on the BST, but there is certainly a high standard of conduct that takes place here, which I believe would extend to timely returns, as Peter said. I've never had a bad experience here and would like to keep it that way.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[kailes2872]

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Kevin, you could not tell it was poor from his photo. The photo you are referring to is what I took. That is where you can see how bad it actually is.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Ok so it was a cell phone pic. I was honest with him from the get go and said I would pay 200 because I wanted to sell it and make a few bucks on it. He said he couldn't but he'd do 275 heck even 250. He said there were a few "light creases". He then told me all he deals with is raw and he's very accurate at grading. I said ok to 250. Thinking I could make 50-75 on it. (Couldn't tell how bad the crease was from pics) upon arrival this card is a good at best. Terrible crease. I politely asked for a refund and he said no refunds. I can get my money out of the card from someone else.

Usually if it seems to good to be true it is. Would think that if you thought you could make 50-75 off it the seller would think the same if the card was actually in the condition the seller represented it to be. Never understood why people think they can buy raw cards accept someone's opinion as to condition, someone who they don't know and then think they can flip the card for a profit.

Aside from that since the card wasn't graded I would think it's only right that you would have the opportunity for a refund. If the card was graded I'd say it would be acceptable to not offer a refund since a graded card has effectively become commoditized but in this case, if what you are saying is accurate, I'd say you have an argument.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Agree 100%. Saw this after I posted my previous comment.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Here you go.

Really not looking for attention or drama. I just want to protect the integrity of this board.

Message #1

Hey Tim,

I'd be buying it to try to make a few bucks, but can offer 200. If that works let me know and I can pay immediately. Thanks

Response:

I think you mean for the 1956 Topps, right?

Don't think I'll go quite there. How about 275? Putting a few items up over the next week or so. Trying to get the wife new counter tops in the kitchen...


Message #2

(I do not have a sent mailbox set up apparently) so it went something like...

I am offering you a price based on a 2 not a 3.


Response:

I will send it in myself if I don't get my price and I think it will be a 3 as I stated. Great eye appeal and it's from my personal collection where VG is my baseline. I already sent in my other 3 and it came back a 3. While I don't do this for a living and won't offer any guarantees, I think if I hang at 300 a collector will get it for pretty close to the price. I'll keep 275 offered to you if you change your mind. Heck, if you'll really pay tonight, 250. Good til 12pm EST.

No matter what, good luck to you. I also have 2 Red Hearts as well, one an SGC 4 and one nicer but ungraded. Would consider a straight sale as well at the right price.

(Yes I realize upon reading this that the no guarantees should have been a HUGE red flag, however he seemed knowledgeable as I took him at his word with the other 3 cards he got graded)


Here is the photo he had posted....






Here is what I got in the mail today...








Upon receiving the card I was very very disappointed.

I immediately sent him a message (don't have my sent messages) along the lines of..

Hello,

Just got the card and I must say I am disappointed. You told me this was VG but it is definitely NOT VG. I do not want any hard feelings, however I would like a refund due to the fact that this card is not as was described to me. Please get back to me asap.



His response:

Stephen,

There will be no refund. The card was well described we negotiated and you agreed to a price.

You will have no problem selling it at $250 to get out of the transaction yourself.

Have a good one,

Tim




I have since written to him 2 more times explaining I would rather not go to the board, and is $250 really worth ruining his reputation with the board over. No answer.

Although the motto on the BST is buyer beware, I was assuming satisfaction guaranteed as it always should be. No one is here to hurt someone else (or I thought).

His user ID is TimBegs.


Photos will be loaded soon.

[x2drich2000]

You could also just link to the original sale post which included his description as well.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238614

DJ

[slidekellyslide]

You should be refunded. There's no way that card is a 3 and you can't really tell from the small pics he put up on the BST.

[rainier2004]

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

[ramram]

This whole thread just drips.

Rob M

[TobaccoKing4]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

In what world is that a VG card? The guy is acting like a scumbag. Don't make excuses for him.

[pokerplyr80]

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know vouches for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Yea....The ultimate trade up, you should have gotten this card in a PSA 7 for Stephen to come out OK....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know voucher for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

I think he's toast on Paypal but it should not come to that. Unhappy buyer, refund him, period. WTF.

[Leon]

I would be annoyed if you sold me that card, from a small scan, and said you thought it would be a 3.

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Its just a bad pic, seems like the easy thing to do as ask for an additional scan or picture. He had a more thorough description than what you see on most cards here...just a bad pic. I'd issue a refund, but I'd be annoyed that I did.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he's toast on Paypal but it should not come to that. Unhappy buyer, refund him, period. WTF.

It shouldn't Peter but it sounds like it will. At least from the one side of the story we've heard. It seems counter intuitive but I believe during a phone conversation with paypal during a dispute I asked if there was a way to still file a claim if money was sent ff and was told yes. As I mentioned I have never tried this, but a phone call wouldn't hurt.

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am always suspicious if a seller posts paypal ff only in their listing. Unless I know a seller or someone I do know voucher for him I send funds pp goods to avoid situations like this. Especially with someone who just signed up to this site 2 months ago. I believe there might still be a way to file a PayPal claim if you did send ff, but I have never tried this personally.

It's just like handing someone cash so unless you can go yank it back out of his bank account, you're sunk.

I've done a few transactions on here both online and locally and have had nothing but success, but I also made sure to CYA and check out who I was dealing with as some of those were pretty high-dollar transactions.

I don't think the OP necessarily got scammed, but I think the seller may have over-sold the card's condition and the OP kinda trusted the guy too much and should have either gotten better pictures/scans or stayed away from the deal altogether. Regardless, there was some mis-information and as long as the seller isn't out any money, he should do a refund to the OP and all involved just call it a wash and move on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

It shouldn't Peter but it sounds like it will. At least from the one side of the story we've heard. It seems counter intuitive but I believe during a phone conversation with paypal during a dispute I asked if there was a way to still file a claim if money was sent ff and was told yes. As I mentioned I have never tried this, but a phone call wouldn't hurt.

I don't think you can even file a dispute going f/f, it's like sending someone a cash transfer.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think you can even file a dispute going f/f, it's like sending someone a cash transfer.

Correct Peter UNLESS you send f/f and pay with a credit card........then you could dispute the credit card transaction as "goods not as described" or however you want to word it. I can tell you from experience that Paypal HATES when you dispute your credit card transaction. They despise it when you do that and will sometimes limit your account after. Just FYI. That being said, if I truly had a legit complaint and the seller was not cooperating, then I would dispute the charge. Its your right.

Peace, Mike

[wondo]

I assume that even though we acknowledge caveat emptor, the assumption is that the deal is dependent upon both sides being satisfied with the transaction. Seems huckster-Esque to sell in pics and embellishments and then say, so sorry!", if the buyer is unhappy. Just my personal opinion.

[Snapolit1]

I think every transaction on BST should incorporate a rapid return and refund if the buyer is not happy. Don't be a dick. This is a board of like minded people coming together to have some fun and share a hobby. It's not the wild west. If someone is not happy and raises it timely give them their damm money back.
I've done dozens of deals on BST and every one has been friendly and transactions all sales were professionally done.