1949 Bowman variations- calling Ted Z

[Stonepony]

Please anyone chime in, but I know Ted Z is an authority of this issue.
I collect 1949 Bowman as a inherited obsession from my father who collected them as a teenager and ultimately as a collector later in life. I've inherited not only his passion with this issue, but the fruits of his years of collecting. I currently have 3 sets. 2 I consider Master sets, one of which is very high grade.
I was ready to put the best set away ( SD box finally) and not tinker with it anymore as potential upgrades were never ending. While looking over the 3 sets in preparation for this- I realized perhaps I've not completed the Master set at all and there are many more variations beyond the known.
To recap what I know:
1) The base set is a 240 card set
2) There are 12 accepted VARIATIONS ( Comprising the Master Set)as follows:
-Mize...........Blue...........Name of front/ No name on front
-Priddy.........Blue..........Name of front/ No name on front
-Rizzuto......Orange.......Name on front/ No name on front
-Salkeld......orange.......Name of front/No name on front
Zolak..........Green........Name of front/No name on front
-Brazle.........Yellow..Name on front.../ Blue..Name on front, script back
-Dillinger.....Light Blue...Name on front/ ...Blue..Name of front,script back
- Evans...Red..Name of front/ orange...Name on front, script back
-Fitzgerald...Green..Name on front/ Green..Name on front, script back
-Majeski....Green...Name on front/ Orange..Name on front,script back
-Murtaugh..Red..Name on front/ Red...Name on front, script back

I understand that there are those that differentiate that cards #1-73 were printed on either white or gray stock

Now my problem is background color as which I have multiple variations. I under stand the 3rd printing sheet had errors of both GRAY/SLATE and PINK background colors with the PINK being quite scarce. I have multiple players with GRAY/SLATE backgrounds ( Including Rizzuto) and a few with PINK.
Is there any way to know which players have this ERROR/VARIATION of having either a PINK or SLATE background as well as the usual background color?

Also I have multiple players that have multiple background colors...
Example- #132 Evans( Name on front) I have with RED,ORANGE and YELLOW backgrounds
#78 Zoldak I have with ORANGE, LIGHT BLUE and GRAY backgrounds.
I have 26 different players with different background colors .
Is there any complete background color resource? How can we say the Master set is 252 when there are so many background variations?
Any input would be appreciated. Unfortunately I'll be awaya from my collection for a week so I won't be able to refer to it to answer any questions or add pics.
Thanks
Dave

[ALR-bishop]

Dave-- I have the Bowman sets and collect variations, but on those sets I limited myself to variations listed in SCD or the Registry. I needed limits somewhere because on my Topps sets after doing the SCD/Registry variations I started doing any and all recurring print defects or variant cards I could find, including for example the many different recurring color backgrounds in the 1952 set.

Your post brings up to me the question of what is a master set. I do not think there is one settled hobby definition for any particular set or in general. For some it is the variations listed in SCD, or Beckets or the Registry, or all 3. There are some avid variation collectors on this board, as evidenced by the never ending variations thread. I also post on a board dedicated to variation collecting specifically.

I think it was Huggins that sold what it referred to as a Topps Super set a few years back. It had all the variations listed in SCD, Beckett or the Registry, plus several more ( what I would say are recurring print defects or variances). It did include back stock differences ( gray/white), and I think die hards do include those, even though on some sets, such as the 1952 Topps set, completing the set that way is a daunting task. There have been threads here about what constitutes a master 1952 set and my guess is that there is still not a full consensus answer, and the answer is subject to change through discovery anyway.

On the 49 Bowman set I too would defer to Ted's expertise. But I think the
definition of a full master set, or for that matter what constitutes a variation that should have full hobby recognition, are unsettled hobby mysteries ( at least to me )

Sounds though like you have some Super 49 Bowman sets

[ALR-bishop]

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=198529

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112080

[tedzan]

Hi Dave and Al

Well, where do I start.......let's first go to the 1952 Topps "master" set. I am approaching 555 cards, which I consider comprises this complete set.
This one is easier, except for those elusive Graybacks (#131 - 190).

A 1949 Bowman "master" set is virtually impossible when you start considering the Slate background cards, Pink background cards, and other mis-
printed background cards.

For example, I now have the basic 324 cards (which includes the regular variations). And an additional 77 (or so) cards which include Slates, Pinks,
and other mis-printed background colors. I tell you all this, because I am no where near attaining a "master" Bowman set.

Somewhere in my archives I have figured out what number would make up a "master" set. I'd have to search for it, if you are interested.

Feel free to ask questions regarding this set, and I'll try to answer them.

Take care,


TED Z
.

[Stonepony]

Thanks Al. That helps in that I've got an idea of the 3rd series "
Slate " cards. yes mentions slate colored cards in the more difficult high numbers. Hopefully he'll chime in to as what cards can have that background.
As to the different pastels backgrounds, who knows what's out there.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Dave and Al

Well, where do I start.......let's first go to the 1952 Topps "master" set. I am approaching 555 cards, which I consider comprises this complete set.
This one is easier, except for those elusive Graybacks (#131 - 190).

A 1949 Bowman "master" set is virtually impossible when you start considering the Slate background cards, Pink background cards, and other mis-
printed background cards.

For example, I now have the basic 324 cards (which includes the regular variations). And an additional 77 (or so) cards which include Slates, Pinks,
and other mis-printed background colors. I tell you all this, because I am no where near attaining a "master" Bowman set.

Somewhere in my archives I have figured out what number would make up a "master" set. I'd have to search for it, if you are interested.

Feel free to ask questions regarding this set, and I'll try to answer them.

Take care,


TED Z
.

Thanks for the great insight Ted. I'm going to resist the temptation to make this an ongoing quest, but will keep my eye out for different backgrounds because it's fun. I have no idea what was happening in their printing process, but it's kinda crazy

[ALR-bishop]

The H&S 1952 super set was 579 and I know some 52 collectors on the board have expanded that number. A good many of such additions are recurring print defects or variances. In my view there will never be a finite number for any master set because there is no standard definition in the hobby of what constitutes a variation that should be included in a master set.

I think many collectors would use all or some combination of variations listed in SCD, Beckett and or the Registry to define a master set. The gray backs are a big hurdle to a master 52 set, as well as 2 Mantles, Robinsons and Thompsons .

I broke the line on Topps but so far staying the course on Bowman.

Always appreciate it when Ted pops in over here

[tedzan]

Hi Al

Regarding 1952, my 555 number is based on what I consider Topps' original design intent.

Yes, if I was to include all the various printing errors I've had of these cards throughout the years, then my "master set" tally would be over 600 cards.

You said it very well....." In my view there will never be a finite number for any master set because there is no standard definition in the hobby of what
constitutes a variation that should be included in a master set ".

Take care,


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Thanks for the great insight Ted. I'm going to resist the temptation to make this an ongoing quest, but will keep my eye out for different backgrounds because it's fun. I have no idea what was happening in their printing process, but it's kinda crazy

Dave

It sounds like you are really "hooked" on the 1949 Bowman's....I can foresee that you will continue to acquire them (especially the "oddball" cards).

I first collected these cards as a kid in the Spring of 1949. I returned to this great hobby in 1977, and completed many of these Bowman sets. Currently, I have 2.7 sets.
My best set includes the 1st series (72 cards) with the white backs; and, the 2nd set with the 1st series gray backs.


Furthermore, I have uncut sheets of the 1st, 3rd, and 4th series......




4th Series




And, here is my simulation of the 7th (final) sheet......





And, here is a small sample of my Low # and Hi # Slate cards





Wishing you happy hunting,


TED Z
.

[Stonepony]

Great stuff as usual!