The State of This Forum

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have been wondering why this forum has really slowed down as of late...it is now almost as slow if not slower than the Gameused forum.

What happened?

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Posted By: leon

I noticed that too. Maybe it's that not as many folks are always jazzed about memorabilia as they are cards? Maybe there is another memorabilia site that has all of the folks on it? It's hard to say. It only takes about 1 second to delete this whole forum but I won't do that unless that is what folks want. When this first got made there were a handful of folks that were very vocal, besides yourself, about wanting this forum. Once it got made most of those folks didn't post after the first week.....Anyway, it's not hurting anything though it's a little disappointing to see it not going very strong. The Post War Baseball side seems to be doing very well, on the other hand. I saw one poster post a glove question on the other Pre War side of cards and it only got a few responses. I felt like asking that person to post it over here but if I do that then I am risking him not getting an answer he was looking for. I am open to any suggestions...otherwise, it will just stay the way it is. At least there haven't been any arguments over here . best regards

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Well, I don't think there will ever be as many members over here as the baseball card side because the card collectors all have something in common...the memorabilia collectors are so varied that maybe there just isn't enough interest to keep an audience. I know of no other memorabilia site on the internet other than the GU board and Brett has a baseball glove forum, but other than that I haven't seen anything that could be compared to the Net54 card forum. I too am disappointed in some of the people who first posted here that haven't posted beyond the first week or so...I know they are still around because I still see them over on the card side. Ah well...I guess I was too hopeful for this place.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I like this place too and certainly don't want to see it go. I think another part of the problem may be that memorabilia - or at least the sorts displayed here - is much more harder to come by than the cards. I know for me personally, I haven't picked up an companion pieces in months, where as I get new cards every few weeks. It seems as though this has become more of an occasionaly show and tell. Don't get me wrong, I love that aspect of it... just wish I had something new to show and tell about!

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Posted By: Dan

I really like the board and don't want to see it go. I really enjoy seeing what people have found lately and occasionally showing off something in my collection.

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Posted By: Alan Elefson

Hi-
I believe I have posted almost as much to this forum in the last six months then I did for nearly two years on the card board. I love this section! I believe the reason this board is not attracting the same type of attention the card ones do is because memorabilia is so varied. Major areas such as autographs, photos and equipment also allow for regional collecting as well, making the memorabilia segment far more diverse in terms of collecting interests than cards. This diversity is what works against a forum such as this. I believe over time the memorabilia side will grow (in terms of readers), but this will be a slow process. I like an idea that was posted on this site regarding beginning a new thread every few days covering a new area of memorabilia. However, I would not be able to contribute, as I am more of a flipper than collector, and the pieces I do collect are quite varied. This type of "new thread" might bring new readers to this forum.
I have posted some OT stuff on this forum without an issue, so I was wondering if folks might want to consider this to be all sports vvintage memorabilia? It might attract new readers, but it could also serve to dillute the waters too much in terms of serving too many collecting areas. I would love to hear other opinions on this matter.
Lastly, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank every one who has responded to my posts on this forum! I am costantly amazed by the knowledge and forthcomingness of denizens of this board. Your knowledge is more valuable than I think we realize on a daily basis.
Alan Elefson

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Posted By: Joseph

The nice thing about this side of the board is the absence of the mean-spirited, vicious
attitude that too often pollutes the flagship.

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Posted By: Max Weder

I suspect the slowdown is because Barry is entertaining Mark Rucker

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Posted By: Max Weder

Alan

I looked at the title of the forum and it's "net 54 memorabilia forum". I don't think anyone here minds any posts on vintage memorablia, no matter the sport

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Posted By: John Harrell

I posted a number of times when this board first started, pics of some of my bat collection. Unfortunately, my kids have lost my digital camera and at present I am sans a replacement. I continue to pick up bats and I have a large stash that are not photo'd yet. Most of the posts seem to be about photos and paper ephemera, which is fine. I check this board frequently and find it more interesting than the card forum, which seems to focus a lot on 206's and who can put somebody else down. I find both topics tiresome at times, especially the latter. Hopefully I can get another camera soon and post more, as I'd like to see more bat posts.

Thanks Leon for a breath of fresh air.

John

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Posted By: Mike H

There is absolutely NOTHING to worry about on the memorabilia side of the hobby. The posts on this topic are all right on the mark. Of course we all wish there were more posts on the topics we love, but the vaiability is great. Leon, thank you sooo much for creating this side and letting it keep going. I do believe there will be an increase in posts this winter when we all have more time as well. Heck, maybe we memorabilia guys and gals are more well adjusted and well rounded with other interests and activities that make for a life outside of slabs. That was mean spirited and I regret saying already...

Anyway, this forum is important and will grow over time.

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Posted By: Keith

I love this forum. I find it interesting and educational since we all collect such varied genres of memoribilia, and hope it is a long term fixture on the VBC forum

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Just throwing this out there, but there seems to be a general lack of arguing and controversy which usually spurs long threads and multiple posts by the same poster -- which is a great thing, IMO.

But I do find it very surprising how little discussion there is about auctions as they go up. No-one is really discussing the Mastro auction, or other auctions that have gone live in the last few weeks/days (Grey Flannel, SCP, etc.). And the National just happened and there were no photos, very few reports (I could count on one hand), and the most interesting stuff (not that it was much) was to be found in those videos on Youtube. Heck Mastro is being investigated by the FBI and no-one here is talking about it and the implications it has for our hobby. You can only pass so much time with the same people telling the same stories of past experiences of great finds as opposed to discussing topical information.

I think though, the bottom-line is that there are just a very, very small number of regular posters here, which probably reflects the relatively small number of memorabilia collectors compared to card collectors.

That said, I definitely want leon to keep this board running. I still check on it daily and enjoy what little content there is.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for the show of support guys. I sort of guess we expect (wrongfully so) that this side would be close to as popular as the card(s) side(s). I guess it never will be. But if there are this many folks that do enjoy it you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be going away. Ufortunately I don't collect too much memorabilia stuff or I would join in more. IF anyone would like to see any changes whatsoever, or has any suggestions, let me know. Thanks again for the show of support...best regards ...your tyranical dictator....

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Posted By: brock

Keep it.
I dont post much, but i love seeing peoples collections like Dan's and others. Also i learn more about vintage stuff like photos,bats,balls, etc.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Max- funny you should say that because the truth is I have not been paying as much attention to this forum as I thought I would, and didn't even see this discussion until just now.

I envisioned it as a place to discuss pre-league memorabilia from the 1860's and 70's, such as books, display photography, documents, etc. But it evolved into an area in which I have minimal interest.

Early on I started a thread about a rare and significant book, the Base Ball Player's Pocket Companion. I included a picture and a long essay about its significance. I anticipated it would generate a lively discussion and numerous questions.

It pretty much fell on deaf ears and went practically unnoticed. It was at that point that I felt perhaps the forum would not be the place I thought it would be. Granted, it's not about me, it's about the hobby, but I will admit my interest has waned.

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Posted By: boxingbaseballgolf33

The resource is good, never will get the same kind of feedback as the main board. I also noticed some posts about memorabilia on the main board that should be posted here. When you get a unique piece of memorabilia, there is interest. I understand the concern and I thought I would use it more myself, but I feel there is nothing wrong with keeping the forum. I also believe that in the spring, summer and fall months collectors and dealers are out looking for new items - I spend time looking on Fri, Sat, Sun and Monday

Jimmy

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

Hey Guys,

I'm pretty much like Jon. Haven't acquired much since the REA auction (can't afford to anyway if anything good showed up since then) so I quite honestly haven't had much to contribute. I always enjoy reading the forum. It might be slow, but this side also has less people who feel they have to chime in and voice their opinion on every subject that comes up (and I personally find that refreshing). Keep it the way it is, it's doing fine.

I think what also makes it a little more slow is that most memorabilia collectors are more focused in a specialty. For instance, some are into bats, or gloves, or pennents or a special team. Card collectors are into cards, with some sub specialties. As a result, there are more people who have a more common interest and therefore are more likely to contribute because they are familiar with the material. While I find Nebraska Indians material very interesting, for example, and enjoy reading about it and looking at the great stuff shown, I don't have much to contribute to a forum conversation other than "great piece". Now if someone out there starts showing some old BoSox stuff, you would see more of me.

Besides, just how many red backed cards of Ty Cobb can one really look at. I just don't get it. It all looks the same to me and there must be hundreds (thousands?) of them out there.

Greg

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I thought there would be more people willing to show stuff off and share their knowledge...where is Corey Shanus? He has an incredible collection, has a ton of knowledge and he helped lobby for this forum. I see that he still posts over on the card side. I'm not saying that he HAS to post here nor do I want him to feel like he has to contribute, but there was so much excitement from the start and now it's down to almost nothing. People are still buying stuff on ebay...I know because often we are bidding on the same items. There hasn't been a slowdown in the major auction house business. And I agree with Aaron about the National and how it only got a few posts here. I had to go to Carlton's website to see the pictures - which are awesome, but still no writeup over there either. I guess we are all too varied in our collecting tastes and most of us are the only experts in our focus.

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Posted By: George Dreher

I just purchased a small collection from the widow of a memorabilia collector in Schnectady, NY. When I get home tomorrow, I'll post some photos.

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Posted By: Max Weder

One of the problems in posting memorabilia is that it is often difficult to take good pictures of larger items. Anyone know how to take a good photo of a 60" panorama?

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Posted By: Mike H

Max, your point is valid. With cards, you simply throw them on the scanner. Memorabilia requires a camera, lighting downloading, shifting it to photo-bucket then posting it. A lot more steps.

With regard to old documents. I love baseball history in general, but believe most memorabilia collectors are into pieces with eye appeal and visual interest. This forum is about memorabilia, not discussions regarding a game in 1865 between two teams that only three people on earth have heard of. While I appreciate early documents and understand people love to read them, few have a knowledge base that allows for deep conversation. I would prefer being educated about the history of advertising, dating items, judging value, evolution of equipment etc.

I want to hear about your "stuff" and collecting stories. Post your hobby room, favorite display pieces, how you found things, and auction items you love and you'll get more of a response.

Regarding the National. I didn't think many people from this board besides Ryan and I attended. Carlton's pics are great, but there was soo much more he couldn't capture for his site.

Just my two cents worth (ok...it's only worth one cent)

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

Having just read "Baseball cards as an asset class" on the card side, as well as all the threads where people snip at on another over there, I appreciate even more our quite little side of the world where people seem to have a more down to earth style of collecting items for the sake of their historical significance.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Mike- there was a time when I knew nothing about teams from 1865 either, but then I learned about that era, and found collectors with a similar interest, and I found it really fascinating.

I think part of the value of Net54 is to learn about things that were unknown to us before, and I think pre-league baseball is a great place to go. But I know it's not for everybody.

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Posted By: Clint

I think this forum is great.

Barry- Please give us one more chance.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Clint- I'm definitely still in and not bailing out. But like everyone, I need a topic that I have some knowledge and passion for to participate.

I never collected bats, gloves, uniforms, autographs, etc. so there is little I can contribute. But find me a great 1860's photo and I'll dive right in.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

How many of us have 1860's photos? How many are turned up that are new to the hobby in a given year?

I think the oldest photo I own that I can date is 1882.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree Dan, I was just speaking off the cuff. 1880's will do fine.

It's just that I only feel comfortable chiming in when I know what I am talking about. I'm happy to look at pictures of game used bats but I know absolutely nothing about them. So in a sense I become a lurker.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Maybe I should start a new thread, but I was seriously asking that question up there Barry. How many new photos do you see in a given year that are circa 1860s? What was the last new to the hobby photo you saw that blew you away?

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Posted By: Clint

Barry, I was wondering if you can give me a very close date, within a year or two, on this cdv? I would really like to know so I could narrow my research down.

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Posted By: leon

Not new but I don't think anyone that loves old baseball would ever get tired of looking at this? This is from the Jim Montgomery collection. I put in a max bid and woke up the next morning to find out I won it....about 6-7 years ago...*(as far as it being an asset it's about tripled in value..but who's counting )

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Great piece leon! Can you show the back?

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Posted By: leon

It's in my safety deposit box. One of these days I will get it out and do it. It's the skating dude version in red.....

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- very few, but I saw a great one yesterday. I even discovered a new photographic medium.

A board member purchased a beautiful glass plate display photo, which looks like an ambrotype but is really a negative, of a marching band parading down a country road, perhaps the main street of a small town in Connecticut. The process is called colodian (sp) and among the marchers was a baseball team in full uniform, purportedly the Mansfields and dated ca. 1872 (okay, a little later than the 1860's). If it is dated and identified correctly, Jim O'Rourke should be marching with the team. You can actually see it on the website jamesdjulia.com. It's in the second session and you need some search word to find it, but it's findable. And it's a beauty. So I saw a brand new image yesterday.

Clint- that's a beautiful photo and by the style of hats and beards, it does look to be late 1860's. However, because the players are wearing knickers, it is likely early 1870's, perhaps 1872-74. The Red Stockings were supposed to be the first team to sport knickers instead of long pants, but I have no proof of this.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- I just read your post. Are you saying the print on the front of your card is black but on the back of the card it is red? That doesn't sound possible.

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Posted By: Clint

Thanks Barry. I figured it was 1870's and would love for it to be 1860's. I'll start with the 1872-74 era though.

Clint

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Posted By: barrysloate

If you want to see this great new image, go to www.jamesdjulia.com, click on the Samoset link, and go to lot 904. You can even post it on this thread. I don't think the winning bidder would have a problem with it.

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Posted By: leon

I thought it was red but haven't seen it in a while...it could be black. I think from what I remember there might be some red bleed through on it. And you will say "what red".....I don't know but I think there is...I will go grab a Mastro catalogue and see if I can find it....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Now that is a stunning photo!!!

It looks as though the parade stopped so they could get this photo.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Isn't she a beauty?

I guess I can say that Corey won it and hopefully if he reads this thread he can come on and discuss it.

Leon- if the front is black and the back is red I'll buy you a steak dinner at Peter Luger's!

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Posted By: leon

First catalog I picked up and first page I turned to....ok, I was wrong again...it's a black back with no red anywhere...I thought there was some red....oh well....

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Posted By: barrysloate

If you come to NY I'll buy you the steak dinner anyhow!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I only count 8 ballplayers in the parade photo....O'Rourke must have overslept.

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Posted By: barrysloate

There's a guy leaning on a bat behind the drummer with a walrus mustache that looks a little like O'Rourke, but it's really tough to tell with such a small face.

But isn't that an amazing photo? It's a moment in time captured forever. There is so much activity, so many buildings, that you feel like you are part of the parade. That's a real winner.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This photo is obviously earlier than 1870 Barry.




















You can clearly see Abraham Lincoln directly above the front two ballplayers...he's standing right next to Alexander Joy Cartwright.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think you're right Dan.

Why let the fact that Lincoln was dead and Cartwright was in Hawaii get in the way of a good story!

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Posted By: boxingbaseballgolf33

Did someone say Schnectady, NY - I think George said he had a collection coming - I picked this up during the summer

I did some research and Schnectady had a minor league team in the late 1880s through - 1915 or so - the were called the "Electricians"

Jimmy

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Posted By: George Dreher

Yes Jimmy, it was the headquarters for General Electric as well as the home of the greatest electrical engineer who ever lived, Charles Proteus Steinmetz.
I'll post a few memorabilia photos when I get home tomorrow. Typing this message from a hotel room and going to bed in a few minutes.

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Posted By: leon

Ok, at least I wasn't going too crazy. If you look at the last letters in "supplies" on the back and the last few letters of "dealers" you will see some red bleed through. I don't know where it bled from but SGC didn't really ding for it. I think it looks like it was from the mfg somehow if I remember correctly?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Can't tell where the red came from, but I see what you mean.